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Thread: Maria Bartiromo calls for massive immigration

  1. #1

    Maria Bartiromo calls for massive immigration

    In her interview with the ex-con Milken, she says more immigration is good because it will prop up the housing market... these globalists will never quit. They have destroyed the American middle-class, and they won't be happy until everyone is in the poorhouse. (Well, except for them, they will be in penthouse condos and sailing their luxury yachts...)
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  3. #2

  4. #3
    Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't think the OP was making a judgment as to whether immigration is good or bad on its own. The point, rather, is that the rationale expressed here is idiotic.

    The "immigrants" buying up property are not really going to make a dent in the housing market, nor are they going to fix the "crisis" which originates squarely with the faulty debt culture.

  5. #4
    I am all for immigrants so long as they are not entitlement sucking vampires that take advantage of the system. We currently have a big enough welfare state as it is. However, if they are hard working and productive, get them here NOW!

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by krazy kaju View Post
    Oh yeah, those damn immigrants. They don't contribute to society at all.
    I never said that they don't contribute.

    With unemployment and under-employment our major issues right now, it is not the time for increasing immigration. Supply and demand laws do apply to the labor market.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  7. #6

  8. #7
    I heard that Milken would buy companies that specifically had CEO's & other high-ranking employees
    that had ridiculously high salaries & bonus packages. He would then fire those people & replace them
    with people that didn't get ridiculous salaries & bonus packages in order to immediately increase the
    profitability of the company. And for some reason the feds busted him for that. Is that true, because
    that doesn't really sound very illegal to me.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by mello View Post
    I heard that Milken would buy companies that specifically had CEO's & other high-ranking employees
    that had ridiculously high salaries & bonus packages. He would then fire those people & replace them
    with people that didn't get ridiculous salaries & bonus packages in order to immediately increase the
    profitability of the company. And for some reason the feds busted him for that. Is that true, because
    that doesn't really sound very illegal to me.
    I believe he plea bargained down to insider trading. He was the Junk-Bond King. As usual, it was a credit/debt bomb scheme not unlike what Goldman Sachs did with mortgage derivatives. It collapsed some huge companies (No government bailouts, and the guy behind it went to jail. Imagine that!).
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  11. #9
    Bryan 4 Liberty,

    We understood that you never indicated you were anti-immigrant. Some people like twisting words to confuse the issue so so as to interrupt any intelligent conversation. It is best to ignore such behavior, and continue with meaningful uninterrupted conversation.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by krazy kaju View Post
    Oh yeah, those damn immigrants. They don't contribute to society at all.

    http://www.immigrantinc.com/

    http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10438

    Immigrants do contribute to American society but they also come with a huge cost to the taxpayers. Cuts both ways . . .

    The Cost of Immigration


    Most immigrants are poor; indeed, that is why they come here. Through present immigration policy, we are admitting over one million mostly poor people into our society every year —a society that is already challenged to deal with the poverty of its natives.


    The cost of immigration to our society is enormous. The most recent estimate places the net cost of post-1969 immigrants at $61 billion in 2000 alone ($35 billion from legal immigrants and $26 billion from illegal immigrants).1 This is after immigrants’ contribution in taxes has been subtracted. As high as the cost is now, the rising tide of immigration will lift it even higher in years to come. By the end of 2002, the annual net cost of immigration will have risen $66 billion.2

    A study from the National Bureau of Economic Research, based on the Census Bureau’s Survey of Income and Program Participation, analyzed the cost of immigrants based on their specific use of means-tested welfare (both direct and indirect), and found that the total immigrant receipt of benefits in 1996 came to $180 billion.3 That annual amount is sure to grow as the population of legal and illegal immigrants receives over one million new people a year.

    The real costs are probably even higher than these estimates, which do not take into account the effects of immigration in displacing American workers from their jobs and depressing wages. Whatever the annual cost, it is sure to grow as the population of legal and illegal immigrants—now at 31 million—receives over a million new people every year. With immigration policy skewed toward admitting relatives from underdeveloped countries and away from skilled admissions, the flow of immigrants is increasingly composed of the unskilled and undereducated. As a result, “immigrants arriving in the past decade or so are earning less compared to native-born Americans than immigrants who arrived in earlier decades.”4 In other words, the overall earning power of the immigrant population will continue to deteriorate, making them an even bigger drain on taxpayers.

    http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServe...ter_friendly=1

  13. #11
    Wait, you guys are complaining that the welfare state struggles to keep up with immigration? But thats a good thing, the state needs to collapse!
    With unemployment and under-employment our major issues right now, it is not the time for increasing immigration.
    So liberty isnt your highest political ideal. You are ready to give away liberty if you get some money in return. What about "Give me Liberty, or give me Death!"?

  14. #12
    "you guys are complaining that the welfare state struggles to keep up with immigration?" does not equal "With unemployment and under-employment our major issues right now, it is not the time for increasing immigration."

    Bobby W24 actually makes an intelligent contribution to the conversation. Furthermore he documents his point so it is not just a simple opinion.
    Last edited by romacox; 12-05-2009 at 08:34 AM.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by mello View Post
    I heard that Milken would buy companies that specifically had CEO's & other high-ranking employees
    that had ridiculously high salaries & bonus packages. He would then fire those people & replace them
    with people that didn't get ridiculous salaries & bonus packages in order to immediately increase the
    profitability of the company. And for some reason the feds busted him for that. Is that true, because
    that doesn't really sound very illegal to me.
    Except that you can't replace executives with janitors and honestly expect those big profits to continue. The problem isn't with CEO salaries, the problem is government subsidies.

    The Feds busted him for racketeering and insider trading. He isn't a hero. He's a con man.

  16. #14
    There are quite a number of immigrants who come here to buy up cheapo properties. Not every immigrant is poor, just the ones that make the news The thing is, they are only coming for the deals and to snatch up vacation homes in some cases. They're not moving here, spending large amounts of money in the community, etc., and they certainly aren't off-setting the large "oops" of the housing/lending/idiocy bubble.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    I never said that they don't contribute.

    With unemployment and under-employment our major issues right now, it is not the time for increasing immigration. Supply and demand laws do apply to the labor market.
    Yes, supply and demand apply to the labor market. That's why we should have free immigration. That way, when unemployment rises and wages fall, less immigrants come to the US, and when employment rises and wages rise, then more immigrants come to the US.

    And, like it or not, free immigration would help the real estate market. It wouldn't fix the financial crisis, but it would certainly reduce our economic problems.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by krazy kaju View Post
    Yes, supply and demand apply to the labor market. That's why we should have free immigration. That way, when unemployment rises and wages fall, less immigrants come to the US, and when employment rises and wages rise, then more immigrants come to the US.

    And, like it or not, free immigration would help the real estate market. It wouldn't fix the financial crisis, but it would certainly reduce our economic problems.
    You mean like immigration helped inflate the real estate bubble a few years ago?



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  20. #17
    Yes. And so did Americans. So maybe we should kick everyone out of this country?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by krazy kaju View Post
    Yes, supply and demand apply to the labor market. That's why we should have free immigration. That way, when unemployment rises and wages fall, less immigrants come to the US, and when employment rises and wages rise, then more immigrants come to the US.
    The situation you're describing is not free immigration when you have the government providing the incentives. When you have public education, public emergency rooms, welfare, and other government-provided incentives, employment and wages matter less to immigrants. If you read the article by BobbyW24, after subtracting taxes, in 1996, immigrants collected 180 billion in benefits. Freely allowing immigrants into this country under our system of government is a sure way to ensure that immigrants win, taxpaying Americans lose.

    Quote Originally Posted by krazy kaju View Post
    And, like it or not, free immigration would help the real estate market. It wouldn't fix the financial crisis, but it would certainly reduce our economic problems.
    Please explain how it would reduce our economic problems.

    Our welfare-entitlement system is already overburdened. Jobs are scarce. People are already competing for low skilled jobs with less education because people that used to have skilled jobs got laid off and need other employment to tie them over.

  22. #19

    The Costs of Illegal Immigration to Marylanders

    Maryland has a fast growing illegal alien population of about a quarter million persons, more than quadrupling since 2000. Between 2000 and 2008, the state’s foreign-born population has grown by 34.6 percent while its native-born population has increased by 3.3 percent. . Public school enrollment of students who require special instruction in English has soared even more, rising by 93.5 percent from 2000 to 2008 while overall enrollment declined slightly.

    This illegal alien population represents a major burden on the state budget and is borne by Maryland’s taxpayers. The costs imposed on law-abiding Marylanders are unfair and unwelcome even in the best of times, but are especially burdensome at a time when the state has been cutting jobs and funding for schools and health care. Furthermore, the state is facing what the Maryland Budget and Tax Policy Institute projects will be a $2 billion deficit in the 2010 budget.

    In 2008, the foreign-born population in Maryland represented nearly one in every eight residents (12.4%), and illegal aliens constituted more than one-third of that immigrant population. This illegal immigrant population costs the state’s taxpayers more than $1.4 billion per year for education, medical care and incarceration. The annual fiscal burden amounts to about $790 per Maryland household headed by a native-born resident.

    In addition to the fiscal cost estimates in this study, there are additional burdens caused by illegal aliens, i.e., foreign remittances that they sent abroad constitute a major drain on the state’s economy. The Inter-American Development Bank estimated that remittances from Maryland just to Latin America and the Caribbean amounted to $921 million in 2006. If this amount had been earned by American workers, it would have been spent locally, and it would have generated sales, production and jobs in the state as well as increased tax collection.

    The more than $1.4 billion dollars in costs incurred by Maryland taxpayers annually result from outlays in the following areas:

    Education
    Based on estimates of the illegal immigrant population in Maryland and documented costs of K-12 schooling, Marylanders spend more than $966 million annually on education for an estimated 80,800 children of illegal aliens. An additional amount of nearly $250 million is spent on providing special English instruction to an estimated 35,000 children of illegal aliens. About 9.6 percent of the K-12 public school students in Maryland are children of illegal aliens.

    Health Care
    Taxpayer-funded, unreimbursed medical outlays for health care provided to the state’s illegal alien population amount to about $167 million a year.

    Incarceration
    The cost of incarcerating illegal aliens in Maryland’s state and county prisons amounts to about $29 million a year not including related law enforcement and judicial expenses or the monetary costs of the crimes that led to the incarceration.

    Some state and local taxes are received from illegal immigrants even from those working off the books. But, those same tax collections, or more likely an increased amount, would occur if the jobs were done by legal workers. So, unless it is illogically assumed that no legal U.S. or immigrant or foreign guestworker would do the jobs now done by illegal workers, it makes little sense to consider this a true offset to the tax burden. The estimated amount of the taxes currently collected from Maryland’s illegal workers is about $204 million per year.

    These fiscal costs would be considerably higher if other cost areas such as assistance programs for needy families or welfare benefits for American workers displaced by illegal alien workers or resulting from depressed wages were included in the calculation.

    The current proposal to adopt an amnesty for the illegal aliens would not lessen the burden if enacted. Rather, it would increase the access of this population to additional social welfare benefits and allow them to legally apply for the state’s reverse tax benefit known as the Earned Income Tax Credit.

    These costs are not inevitable. State and local policymakers have several means at their disposal to discourage settlement of illegal aliens. Maryland and some local jurisdictions, on the other hand, are permissive towards illegal immigration. Marylanders concerned about the impact on their state and local communities should demand an end to those policies.

    http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer...pdf?docID=4001

  23. #20
    I'm not talking about letting immigrants leech off of our welfare system. I'm talking about real free immigration.

  24. #21

    The Costs of Illegal Immigration to Floridians found that taxpayers spend:

    * $3.4 billion a year to educate illegal immigrant children and the U.S. born children of illegal immigrants.
    * $290 million a year on unreimbursed health care for illegal aliens.
    * $90 million a year to incarcerate criminal illegal aliens.
    * The total represents an annual cost to each of Florida’s native-born headed households of $678.

    The cost study also determined that the illegal alien population in Florida is now 950,000 persons. This represents 7.3 percent of the national total illegal alien population, and it is the nation’s fourth largest concentration of illegal aliens after California, Texas and New York. It is also about 5.2 percent of Florida’s overall population.

    The Zogby poll found that:

    * 71.3% of Florida voters say illegal immigration has a negative impact on the state. Only 14.4% believe it has a positive impact on Florida.
    * 83.5% of Florida voters believe illegal aliens have a negative impact on the state budget, versus only 7.9% who believe their impact is positive.
    * 57.5% believe illegal immigration should be reduced through better enforcement of immigration laws. Only 36% of Florida voters favor amnesty or legalization for current illegal aliens.
    * 68.6% of Florida voters want worksite immigration enforcement to continue. Only 21.1% support the Obama administration’s decision to curtail worksite enforcement.

  25. #22

    Unemployed U.S.-born workers seek day-labor jobs

    by Emily Bazar, USA TODAY

    Growing ranks of U.S. citizens are heading to street corners and home improvement store parking lots to find day-labor work usually done by illegal immigrants.

    The trend is most pronounced in regions where hot construction markets have collapsed, says Abel Valenzuela Jr., a professor of urban planning at the University of California-Los Angeles.

    "You had many, many unemployed construction workers who found themselves without any permanent or stable work," he says. "Some of them have gone on to seek employment by standing on street corners alongside immigrant workers."

    DESPERATION: More seek day-labor jobs, but work is scarce

    Day laborers gather at high-traffic spots such as busy intersections and home improvement stores, looking for pick-up work such as painting, laying bricks or landscaping. Contractors and homeowners describe the jobs and negotiate pay on the spot.

    Valenzuela estimates the proportion of U.S.-born day laborers has at least doubled since he released a report in 2006, when his research showed they made up 7% of the day-labor workforce. At that time, Valenzuela estimated 117,600 people were looking for or doing day-labor jobs on any given day. Illegal immigrants were 75% of the day-labor workforce; the rest were legal immigrants.

    "It's becoming more ethnically diverse. On the corners, I've seen white people, I've seen African Americans and a lot of Mexican Americans," says Pablo Alvarado, executive director of the National Day Laborer Organizing Network. "When unemployment benefits run out, I expect to see more."

    Among the communities seeing an increase in U.S.-citizen day laborers:

    •Tucson. Staff members at Southside Presbyterian Church, which runs a center where workers can connect with people offering work, have been seeing more U.S.-born people looking for jobs in 2008, says church elder Josefina Ahumada."We would say, 'Hi, how are you?' and we would learn that this is somebody who just got laid off."

    •Arlington, Va. Construction workers recently laid off are showing up at the day-labor hiring site run by the Shirlington Employment and Education Center, says executive director Andres Tobar: "We're seeing people who hadn't come to our center before who are legally here and U.S. citizens, and who are skilled workers and can't find work."

    •Los Angeles. Citizens are replacing immigrant day laborers who had trouble finding work and returned to their home countries, says Antonio Bernabe, senior organizer of the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights of Los Angeles.

    "These are people who used to have permanent positions," he says. "It's happening everywhere

  26. #23
    Oh my bad... I didn't realize the OP was about illegals leeching off of the welfare state...


  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by krazy kaju View Post
    Yes, supply and demand apply to the labor market. That's why we should have free immigration. That way, when unemployment rises and wages fall, less immigrants come to the US, and when employment rises and wages rise, then more immigrants come to the US.
    Nice in theory, not so nice in practice. It's a race to the bottom. That theory might work if every country in the world were 100% free, and had exactly the same laws (across the board, not just labor laws). People leaving other countries don't care about the economic condition in the US. They are trying to escape far worse conditions where they are coming from.

    The middle-class is being destroyed. The oligarchy is taking more than ever. They love more workers, specifically to lower wages and make them easy to control. Both legal and illegal immigrants have a huge threat hanging over their heads until they become citizens (which either takes a very long time, or not at all). At what point do you re-examine a theory and determine that it isn't working in practice? Only when you are personally out of work and homeless?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    There are quite a number of immigrants who come here to buy up cheapo properties. Not every immigrant is poor, just the ones that make the news The thing is, they are only coming for the deals and to snatch up vacation homes in some cases.
    Yep. I know an Indian couple that bought a million dollar house for cash. A lot of Chinese, especially those that left Hong Kong to come to the west coast bought homes with cash too.

    As for the bubble and easy debt, I met a Chinese guy who had bought 20 houses with no money down during the bubble. A couple of others were trying to match him. These were fresh off the boat immigrants, not Chinese Americans. That type of activity certainly can drive up prices, but it won't happen now (unless easy loans come back). And their stated plan was to just go back to China if they got in legal trouble. Today, I think they are surprised that they could engage in those activities with no legal ramifications (especially the liar loans).
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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