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Thread: Real politics is about precinct organizing, not sign waves or YouTube clips

  1. #1



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  3. #2
    The author of the OP at the first link is a $#@!ing MORON!

    -t

  4. #3
    I didn't like the tone of the article. I agree, that going forward we need to do the things as suggested, as well as some of the things we did in the past that were effective.

    But 2 years ago, this was not possible without explosive grassroots activism, esp a vibrant online community. The numbers simply were not there, critical mass had not been achieved. The money had not been raised.

    The money bombs, blimps, etc got our message out and grew the movement from practically nothing, to what it is now. Even the mainstream media had to take notice.

    The online activism is the wave of the future, so no I don't agree that the youtube videos were done in vain. I would say that the majority of us are here in large part because the message of libertarianism can't be censored on the internet.

    To scoff at millions of dollars raised in one day to an obscure candidate that was at 1% in polls sounds quite pretentious and ungrateful to me. I'm not sure why he takes a bitter tone.
    "It is our true policy to steer clear of entangling alliances with any portion of the foreign world. "
    George Washington

    "Since the general civilization of mankind, I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations"
    James Madison

  5. #4
    I didn't like it, either. Glad I'm not the only one.

  6. #5
    I thought it was written in a poor tone. Disrespectful and quite unappreciative.

  7. #6

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by paulitics View Post
    But 2 years ago, this was not possible without explosive grassroots activism, esp a vibrant online community. The numbers simply were not there, critical mass had not been achieved. The money had not been raised.

    The money bombs, blimps, etc got our message out and grew the movement from practically nothing, to what it is now.

    To scoff at millions of dollars raised in one day to an obscure candidate that was at 1% in polls sounds quite pretentious and ungrateful to me. I'm not sure why he takes a bitter tone.
    +1

    This movement was barely on the radar when Ron announced his campaign.

    Our numbers are growing and I would say most of us went out and voted. He does have a point though. Elections are won by taking over your precincts. Sign waving does play a big part. Even the winning campaigns spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on signs.

  9. #8
    Superb article. Despite some of the complaints here, this article is truth.
    tu ne cede malis



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  11. #9
    Whatever. However, I seem to recall that most us of us went to the campaign and said "We want to win!" and they sent us to Meetup, essentially saying "Sorry, we're really busy. Organize yourself."

    How wonderful that now, 2 years later, they're coming up with the plan they assured us they already had.

    And I'm in a state where the paid State Coordinators blew off our county organizational meeting at the last minute, to attend a sign wave.

    Sorry, I want my money back. I am so sorry that a single penny went to fund the CFL staffers.
    Last edited by angelatc; 11-25-2009 at 02:41 PM.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Whatever. However, I seem to recall that most us of us went to the campaign and said "We want to win!" and they sent us to Meetup, essentially saying "Sorry, we're really busy. Organize yourself."

    How wonderful that now, 2 years later, they're coming up with the plan they assured us they already had.

    And I'm in a state where the paid State Coordinators blew off our county organizational meeting at the last minute, to attend a sign wave.

    Sorry, I want my money back. I am so sorry that a single penny went to fund the CFL staffers.
    And now they want to take the meetups away!

    Me, too, Angela. Me, too.

  13. #11
    The next day, about 75 percent of them do not show up to vote.
    Ya, like the people who go to listen to Ron Paul speak and hold up signs didn't vote...

    We went out and voted for Ron Paul even when he wasn't on the ballot in the General election.
    Definition of political insanity: Voting for the same people expecting different results.

  14. #12
    ," he preaches to the shrinking choir.

  15. #13
    $#@! that dooshbag
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa
    Liberty works best not because liberty is without responsibility, but because responsibility is part of the deal. Capitalism works best not because capitalists love us and want us to be happy, but because the more government you have, the more government they can buy, and if they have no government to buy then all they can do instead is compete--compete to serve us better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ʇɔɐ ʇoıɹʇɐd
    I heart BTC! - 1AesnP1c7wyjzJhaKZajkixo9tthZRQzjB

  16. #14
    CFL doesn't seem to have the agorist approach anywhere on the radar. It's either political reform or bust.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLightShining View Post
    And now they want to take the meetups away!
    Really?!? I hadn't heard that!

    Take a lesson from Freecycle, and change the name of the group ASAP.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by constituent View Post
    ," he preaches to the shrinking choir.
    Right!

    Our ranks aren't growing. Glenn Beck's ranks are growing.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by CivilRadiant View Post
    Steve Bierfeldt is the Director of Development for Campaign for Liberty.
    Well that explains a lot...

    oh - and the last time I talked to the MD CFL leadership, we were up to 33 whole precinct leaders! We have 1,670 precincts in the state... That's working really well, isn't it?

    No, we were as successful as we were and saw that exponential growth specifically because we did all those things this guy says were worthless. The only point I sort of agree with him on is that sign waves have limited usefulness, other than judging popular support - ie: how many honks, waves and thumbs up you get. Berma shaves, OTOH are useful because you can actually deliver message.

    Supporters also like sign waves - social thing and a sign of solidarity.

    -t

  21. #18
    The only thing effective in politics is each individual doing what best suits their interests and talents. Always learning from past mistakes, becoming more efficient, and keeping an open mind.
    I'm a moderator, and I'm glad to help. But I'm an individual -- my words come from me. Any idiocy within should reflect on me, not Ron Paul, and not Ron Paul Forums.

  22. #19

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by nayjevin View Post
    the only thing effective in politics is each individual doing what best suits their interests and talents. Always learning from past mistakes, becoming more efficient, and keeping an open mind.
    bingo
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa
    Liberty works best not because liberty is without responsibility, but because responsibility is part of the deal. Capitalism works best not because capitalists love us and want us to be happy, but because the more government you have, the more government they can buy, and if they have no government to buy then all they can do instead is compete--compete to serve us better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ʇɔɐ ʇoıɹʇɐd
    I heart BTC! - 1AesnP1c7wyjzJhaKZajkixo9tthZRQzjB

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Really?!? I hadn't heard that!

    Take a lesson from Freecycle, and change the name of the group ASAP.
    You will hear it soon, though I'm not sure where C4L in your state stands on it. Your folks are pretty tied into national.
    Quote Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul View Post
    Well that explains a lot...

    oh - and the last time I talked to the MD CFL leadership, we were up to 33 whole precinct leaders! We have 1,670 precincts in the state... That's working really well, isn't it?

    No, we were as successful as we were and saw that exponential growth specifically because we did all those things this guy says were worthless. The only point I sort of agree with him on is that sign waves have limited usefulness, other than judging popular support - ie: how many honks, waves and thumbs up you get. Berma shaves, OTOH are useful because you can actually deliver message.

    Supporters also like sign waves - social thing and a sign of solidarity.

    -t
    Yep

    Quote Originally Posted by nayjevin View Post
    The only thing effective in politics is each individual doing what best suits their interests and talents. Always learning from past mistakes, becoming more efficient, and keeping an open mind.
    Amen.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLightShining View Post
    And now they want to take the meetups away!

    Me, too, Angela. Me, too.
    How can "they" take the Meetups away? That's essentially impossible because the Meetups are paid for by local organizers. I know because I'm one of them. And frankly I think Meetup is overpriced. I wish the 2008 campaign had kept up the "precinct captain" website it had up during the 2008 campaign. The phone banking and block walking we did through that was the most productive thing we did. Right after that was going to conservative events organized by others (such as pro life events) and campaigning for Paul. "Sign waving" was a waste of time in my opinion. Long after the campaign was over people who saw my Ron Paul bumper sticker would ask me "Yeah? Who is that Ron Paul guy? I would see the signs but never knew what it was about." Most people simply aren't going to "Google Ron Paul" once they finish their drive home.

    Regards,

    John M. Drake
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  25. #22

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    How can "they" take the Meetups away? That's essentially impossible because the Meetups are paid for by local organizers. I know because I'm one of them. And frankly I think Meetup is overpriced. I wish the 2008 campaign had kept up the "precinct captain" website it had up during the 2008 campaign. The phone banking and block walking we did through that was the most productive thing we did. Right after that was going to conservative events organized by others (such as pro life events) and campaigning for Paul. "Sign waving" was a waste of time in my opinion. Long after the campaign was over people who saw my Ron Paul bumper sticker would ask me "Yeah? Who is that Ron Paul guy? I would see the signs but never knew what it was about." Most people simply aren't going to "Google Ron Paul" once they finish their drive home.

    Regards,

    John M. Drake
    Copyright infringement is one way. They don't want local groups using other sites. I can't go into detail right now but it's coming.

  27. #24
    Activists wave signs and create youtube clips.

    Politicians work inside the machine to gain (usually incremental) change.

    We have both here.

    Helps to know which you are...
    Why can't everybody else leave everybody else alone?



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  29. #25
    Why was this moved? This is a GREAT point and we ought to be thinking about this NOW, not beginning 2 years from now.
    O.B.A.M.A. = One Big Ass Mistake, America

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    . Long after the campaign was over people who saw my Ron Paul bumper sticker would ask me "Yeah? Who is that Ron Paul guy? I would see the signs but never knew what it was about." Most people simply aren't going to "Google Ron Paul" once they finish their drive home.

    Regards,

    John M. Drake
    Most people turn on the radio in the car on their drive home, and turn on the TV after they get home.

    It's too bad the campaign didn't use the money we sent them to campaign with to buy media spots.

    "Ron Paul? Oh yeah, I saw those people waving that name on some signs today..."
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Most people turn on the radio in the car on their drive home, and turn on the TV after they get home.

    It's too bad the campaign didn't use the money we sent them to campaign with to buy media spots.

    "Ron Paul? Oh yeah, I saw those people waving that name on some signs today..."
    Well our local group bought our own radio spots and newspaper ads. Our newspaper ads were nullified by the editorial page putting out a candidate list the Sunday before super Tuesday that didn't list Paul. I don't think every decision made by central command was on target. But we realized we weren't a "first tier" state and we weren't expecting the national campaign to buy ads here. I sign waved, sign bombed, sidewalk chalked, paraded on New Years eve with 200 people etc. But I wish I had done more precinct walking. I did phone banking also and didn't like that too well, but I was able to connect with people when I actually knocked on their doors. I guess everybody has to do what they are most comfortable with, but I personally felt the one-on-one contact to be the most effective.

    Regards,

    John M. Drake
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I guess everybody has to do what they are most comfortable with, but I personally felt the one-on-one contact to be the most effective.

    Regards,

    John M. Drake
    You are absolutely right, but no candidate has a the means to send a representative to every door.

    In today's world, most people have their opinions formed by television and radio.

    And an unfortunate side truth is that stations are reluctant to criticize candidates who are spending money on that station. Not spending money on advertising makes it easy for the talking heads to assassinate candidates, because there's no pressure from management to lighten up lest they lose the advertising revenue.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLightShining View Post
    Copyright infringement is one way. They don't want local groups using other sites. I can't go into detail right now but it's coming.
    What an outstanding way to loose supporters and future donations! An overbearing HQ sending out mandates to VOLUNTEERS and using peoples own donations and dues to drag them into court... - this is going to work out well...

    People are already finding HQ controlling, overbearing and often incompetent - so many have walked. The censorship and keeping people compartmentalized kills communication and innovation. YAL already has a splinter group and this is likely to do the same to CFL. If the goal is to drive people off and further fragment the movement - they are doing an outstanding job!

    In general isn't this the type of thing we are fighting? They are basically taxing with dues, then using those dues to oppress and force the taxed to it's will. Adopting the objectionable behaviors of your opposition is one incredible brainfart!

    -t
    Last edited by tangent4ronpaul; 11-26-2009 at 03:22 AM.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    You are absolutely right, but no candidate has a the means to send a representative to every door.

    In today's world, most people have their opinions formed by television and radio.

    And an unfortunate side truth is that stations are reluctant to criticize candidates who are spending money on that station. Not spending money on advertising makes it easy for the talking heads to assassinate candidates, because there's no pressure from management to lighten up lest they lose the advertising revenue.
    Well like I said, the Tennessean still stabbed us in the back by leaving Ron Paul off their candidate list even though we paid for ads that were running that weekend. So spending money is no guarantee of fair treatment. (The Tennessean did apologize and call this an "oversight"). I realize campaigns can't send a person to every door. They also typically don't have the resources to advertise in every media market.

    And we had the means to get to a lot more doors than we did if half the people who joined the meetups were willing to do that kind of thing. In our area we never even reached the goal of having a captain for every precinct. Perhaps we shouldn't look at our meetups as large groups of people willing to do grunt work. But I can't blame the CFL for trying.

    Regards,

    John M. Drake
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

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