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Thread: Senate candidates go on attack at forum

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    The only people who are going to make any hay about this faux-pas are people on this forum.

    Honestly, if the best Grayson can do is point to a blog post made in MAY by some kid staffer, we're in good shape
    If we had a normal unemployment rate it'd be pretty rough. If it weren't for the bad economy this would be a bigger issue among GOP primary voters. It's going to be a rough few days but it'll fade into the holidays and come January it'll be a minor issue as long as he sticks with his current position.
    "We took it in the shorts with Bush-Cheney, the Iraq War, and by sacrificing fiscal responsibility to hold power.
    ~John Boehner, GOP Minority Leader

    "Take out all this movement stuff. There is no movement.... Look, I know this probably sounds arrogant to say but I redefined the Republican Party." ~President George W. Bush to speechwriter



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  3. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulFanInGA View Post
    h ttp://www.treygrayson.com/news/post/rand-paul-vs.-himself

    Ouch.
    This is a bad mistake for Rand.

  4. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by bolidew View Post
    This is a bad mistake for Rand.
    Thanks to this Tway can finally update his site with something...

  5. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0zzy View Post
    well shiz. Rand needs to clarify wtf is going on.
    What's going on is somebody has given Rand some horrible advice! Some advisor has told Rand "Your dad lost cause folks didn't understand his national security policy so you need to distance yourself from it". The problem is that the same policy is supported by most of Rand's base.

    Here's some free advice to the Rand Paul campaign. Stick to stressing the constitution. Here's what I wish he had said about the Obama decision to try 9/11 suspects in civilian court.

    The confusion surrounding this all goes back to the fact that we haven't had a formal declaration of war. So there's been this ongoing question of what status these prisoners have. Before going any further president Obama should go back to congress and request a formal declaration of war that lays out a clear plan of what our objectives are and what "victory" looks like. Until then anything done to the detainees is just political posturing. Also special consideration needs to be given the Oighurs. The military long ago deemed they weren't terrorists, and even the worst claims against them were not that they hated America but that they opposed communism in China. I can't imagine president Reagan keeping such men locked up indefinitely.

    I don't know if it's too late for him to take that position.

    Regards,

    John M. Drake
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  6. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    What's going on is somebody has given Rand some horrible advice! Some advisor has told Rand "Your dad lost cause folks didn't understand his national security policy so you need to distance yourself from it". The problem is that the same policy is supported by most of Rand's base.

    Here's some free advice to the Rand Paul campaign. Stick to stressing the constitution. Here's what I wish he had said about the Obama decision to try 9/11 suspects in civilian court.

    The confusion surrounding this all goes back to the fact that we haven't had a formal declaration of war. So there's been this ongoing question of what status these prisoners have. Before going any further president Obama should go back to congress and request a formal declaration of war that lays out a clear plan of what our objectives are and what "victory" looks like. Until then anything done to the detainees is just political posturing. Also special consideration needs to be given the Oighurs. The military long ago deemed they weren't terrorists, and even the worst claims against them were not that they hated America but that they opposed communism in China. I can't imagine president Reagan keeping such men locked up indefinitely.

    I don't know if it's too late for him to take that position.

    Regards,

    John M. Drake
    I agree, if those were his positions he should have stuck to them since it seems he or the campaign has made them public. But he's since dismissed them as being in error and made a bold statement upholding the more hawkish position (it's even more hawkish than the establishment position... even Bush claimed he wanted to shut it down) he needs to stay with it.

    I think it is too late and he should just stick to the no domestic trials position as it is in line with GOP primary voters (and a position that many in the movement-- like me-- agree with).
    Last edited by Chieftain1776; 11-19-2009 at 09:56 PM.
    "We took it in the shorts with Bush-Cheney, the Iraq War, and by sacrificing fiscal responsibility to hold power.
    ~John Boehner, GOP Minority Leader

    "Take out all this movement stuff. There is no movement.... Look, I know this probably sounds arrogant to say but I redefined the Republican Party." ~President George W. Bush to speechwriter

  7. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chieftain1776 View Post
    I agree, if those were his positions he should have stuck to them since it seems he or the campaign has made them public. But he's since dismissed them as being in error and made a bold statement upholding the more hawkish position (it's even more hawkish than the establishment position... even Bush claimed he wanted to shut it down) he needs to stay with it.

    I think it is too late and he should just stick to the no domestic trials position as it is in line with GOP primary voters (and a position that many in the movement-- like me-- agree with).
    To your first point, I kind of agree. That's why I said that it might be too late to fix this. Still what I propose isn't inconsistent with his current position. You can still demand a declaration of war, point out that a lack of a D.O.W. has led to the current state of confusion, and still say keep the Gitmo status quo until that happens.

    To your second point, that reminds me of a blog post I've been thinking about writing for some time now. It's "How to win the war on the war on terrorism". The basic idea is this. The right has been demanding we "profile muslims" to win. The left has taken the "let's take away everybody's right...even though we really don't want to." Both approaches lead to taking everybody's rights away. (The right may think it's just singling out muslims, but as we all know from the MIAC reports everybody eventually gets included in the dragnet.) A third approach is one of government accountability. For example consider the 1993 WTC bombing. The FBI informant recorded himself being told by his handlers to use real explosives. Six people died but nobody in the government was ever held accountable.

    I think it's possible to win the war on the war on terrorism. Ultra right wing talk show host Michael Savage has recently been questioning the war in Afghanistan and asking if we even need to be there!

    See: http://www.podfeed.net/episode/Micha...109+H1/2041594

    He also called the left wing antiwar movement fake and predicted that a genuine antiwar movement would rise from the right. Ron Paul needs to get on this pronto! An appearance on Michael Savage could be huge, especially if M.S. ends up endorsing a major part of RP's foreign policy!

    Regards,

    John M. Drake
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  8. #37

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    Someone needs to have words with David Adams. He should be preventing things like this from happening.
    "It's absolutely astounding...the Tea Party is one of the biggest movements in history, and every one we've been to has been FERTILE ground for our ideas." -TheTyke

  9. #38

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    I posted a little write-up here
    http://randforsenate.blogspot.com/20...st-debate.html

    Let me know what you think. (I'd maybe be willing o change the wording on calling Rand a Dove if you can think of a better way to put it.

    Tracy
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=720941620
    http://www.myspace.com/anarkyisorder

    Tracy

    PS Please donate to our SD Liberty PAC and send as many Ron Paul delegates to Tampa from SD as possible.
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  10. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    The only people who are going to make any hay about this faux-pas are people on this forum.

    Honestly, if the best Grayson can do is point to a blog post made in MAY by some kid staffer, we're in good shape
    This is more than the mistake of some "kid staffer." I have worked on numerous campaigns and for even more political organizations. There is always a protocol before any new copy is released to the public. Either the person at the top gives the okay, or he okay's by proxy by choosing someone he trusts to sign off, who may then, for certain things, entrust final signoff to someone below himself, and so on down the ladder.

    Either Rand made an error in okaying the position, or he made an error in selecting whoever did okay the position.
    "A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson's First Inaugural Address, 1801

  11. #40

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    I love discussing these sorts of things BUT remember that our enemies read this forum too! We have a lot of smart people here I hate the thought of actually giving them any ideas (re: pancake ad). Be careful what you say here, or anywhere else online. Sometimes I think we're too smart for our own good. No use giving anybody any ideas they may not have thought of already.

    On topic: I guess its just politics when they do the dragging up of statements, no matter how out of context or shaky, to "argue over who said what when" (to quote Ron Paul). Just gotta be smarter about the website content in the future. This won't mean anything in the long run though if they can avoid this kind of slip up.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks Fishing Boat Rentals

  12. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abraham View Post
    This is what happens when one is not "truthful" about their true beliefs, Rand made a mistake by LYING on what he truly believes. I don't think anyone here can actually believe Rand means what he said in that forum. Greyson is playing it 100% smart, hes capitalizing on this huge mistake by Rand, and now Rand is going to be seen as a flip flopper. Stick to your guns Rand, its the message that people like.
    absolute nonsense, the post on the website he is talking about was from May, that was before he was running.

    They're the ones lying or misrepresenting

  13. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    I love discussing these sorts of things BUT remember that our enemies read this forum too! We have a lot of smart people here I hate the thought of actually giving them any ideas (re: pancake ad). Be careful what you say here, or anywhere else online. Sometimes I think we're too smart for our own good. No use giving anybody any ideas they may not have thought of already.
    Wise words.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  14. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Wise words.
    I see your point, but I think that Grayson's team had already scoped out Rand's issues page and found the alleged stance that had slipped through the cracks regarding the Guantanamo issue. I'm guessing that's why Grayson was confident enough to show up at the event and was foaming at the mouth to lob that curveball in there--->with full intention to make use out of the pancake footage. But hopefully this will all blow over..

  15. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by FSP-Rebel View Post
    I see your point, but I think that Grayson's team had already scoped out Rand's issues page and found the alleged stance that had slipped through the cracks regarding the Guantanamo issue. I'm guessing that's why Grayson was confident enough to show up at the event and was foaming at the mouth to lob that curveball in there--->with full intention to make use out of the pancake footage. But hopefully this will all blow over..
    I wasn't talking about the GITMO issue. I was referring to people on this forum actively throwing out ideas on how to attack Rand over it. You're assuming they already thought of that. I'm not so sure. Either way, my point holds true for the future as well. Keep the Rand negativity to a minimum and certainly don't suggest ways to harm his campaign.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks Fishing Boat Rentals

  16. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    I love discussing these sorts of things BUT remember that our enemies read this forum too! We have a lot of smart people here I hate the thought of actually giving them any ideas (re: pancake ad). Be careful what you say here, or anywhere else online. Sometimes I think we're too smart for our own good. No use giving anybody any ideas they may not have thought of already.

    On topic: I guess its just politics when they do the dragging up of statements, no matter how out of context or shaky, to "argue over who said what when" (to quote Ron Paul). Just gotta be smarter about the website content in the future. This won't mean anything in the long run though if they can avoid this kind of slip up.
    I couldn't agree with you more, devil21.

    A little prudence never hurts.
    "Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister


  17. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Keep the Rand negativity to a minimum and certainly don't suggest ways to harm his campaign.
    Agreed, I just figured this one was totally self-evident in the first place.

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