Party split already happening: Conservative Party VS Republican Party

[federalistnp]

Palin backs Doug Hoffman in NY-23
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28641.html


So what does this mean for the party. I was unaware that the Conservative Party had people on ballots. I think many of us were right to assume that the party would be fractured. It needs to be completely overhauled and find it's head before suffering another failure of imagination.

Does anyone know the real website of this Hoffman Conservative Party?

Does anyone now believe that there is more unrest and disasitfaction and that is why we are seeing people looking, begging, for a reboot? They don't want anything to do with the labels Democrats or Republicans.

I don't care what the name is, but the third party has no better time to happen than now.

[randolphfuller]

The Conservative Party of New York is a group of new-conservatives started by Bill Buckley in th 1950's and hates libertarians.

[torchbearer]

GOP going the way of the Whigs? It has happened before.

[Pauls' Revere]

Palin backs Doug Hoffman in NY-23
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28641.html


So what does this mean for the party. I was unaware that the Conservative Party had people on ballots. I think many of us were right to assume that the party would be fractured. It needs to be completely overhauled and find it's head before suffering another failure of imagination.

Does anyone know the real website of this Hoffman Conservative Party?

Does anyone now believe that there is more unrest and disasitfaction and that is why we are seeing people looking, begging, for a reboot? They don't want anything to do with the labels Democrats or Republicans.

I don't care what the name is, but the third party has no better time to happen than now.

I concur, would love to see RP do an Indy run since we have three years til 2012. Perhaps the Libertarians can put someone there that people can get behind. I'm done with the Dems and Repubs and would love to see the third party taken seriously. However, is there not rules in place which do not allow for a third party in any presidential debate? I may be wrong on that but I think the Commission of Presidential Debates will not allow the third party unless they are invited in. I believe that was the case with Ross Perot. I also wonder how many of these other parties are splinters of the Dems and Repubs anyway rather than a complete diversion from them.

[Pauls' Revere]

GOP going the way of the Whigs? It has happened before.

Now I believe in the power of prayer.

[akforme]

Now I believe in the power of prayer.

So did Bush, that's why he "decided" to invade Iraq.

[dgr]

I believe Bush though it was his mission to put us on the path to Armagaddon, or he was just buying everything Cheney told him.
the split in the GOP started with the most favored nation trade status for China, widdened with the invasion and occupatation of Iraq, amnesty sent a lot of republicians over the edge, and by the time the RNC insured the nominated McCain and bailed out AIG, it was over for many republicians. They have fled to 9 12 coalition and Freedom Works meetings , most of these same recovering republicians now believe in the "new world order" because they saw Bush pave the way for obama to race down the highway. We are reading "The Road to Serfdom", think jail was needed not bailouts, AND CHRINGE EVERYTIME CHEENEY OPENS HIS MOUTH NO MATTER WHAT HE SAYS. so yes the GOP is split and fractured. If a vailable 3rd party doesnot manifest itself now it never will and the Nation as we know it will cease to be.

[fj45lvr]

how many votes did the Constitution party get last election?? just curious.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I concur, would love to see RP do an Indy run since we have three years til 2012. Perhaps the Libertarians can put someone there that people can get behind. I'm done with the Dems and Repubs and would love to see the third party taken seriously. However, is there not rules in place which do not allow for a third party in any presidential debate? I may be wrong on that but I think the Commission of Presidential Debates will not allow the third party unless they are invited in. I believe that was the case with Ross Perot. I also wonder how many of these other parties are splinters of the Dems and Repubs anyway rather than a complete diversion from them.

Mary Ruwart. Seriously, this is the best time for the LP to flourish. They need to get their act together.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

how many votes did the Constitution party get last election?? just curious.

Many here are of the belief that the Constitution Party sounds very much theocratic. It is heavily founded on religion. Read their charter.

Now read the Libertarian Party charter. Your choice.

This isn't my cup of tea. Maybe yours though. /shrug

The Constitution Party gratefully acknowledges the blessing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as Creator, Preserver and Ruler of the Universe and of these United States. We hereby appeal to Him for mercy, aid, comfort, guidance and the protection of His Providence as we work to restore and preserve these United States.

This great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been and are afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.

The goal of the Constitution Party is to restore American jurisprudence to its Biblical foundations and to limit the federal government to its Constitutional boundaries.


That is their preamble. Read the rest.

http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php

[tonesforjonesbones]

FOr those of you who pray for the demise of the GOP I hope you are ready for full blown socialism and prepare to say good bye to what is left of the constitution. TONES

[Flash]

It won't be the demise of the GOP. If Doug Hoffman gets into office he would most likely switch to the Republican Party. Even on his website he refers to himself as a true Republican. From my understanding of the Conservative Party, it works somewhat like a wing of the GOP in local New York politics. It is needed to keep the liberal-republicans in check.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I'm not opposed to endorsing third parties...tones is a libertarian, but some on here think that destroying the GOP completely is a good thing...to me...we should be attacking the democraps because they are MUCH more dangerous to the constitution that the GOP EVER has been. With the GOP we at least agree on about 80%. Why would anyone want to destroy the majority of the capitalists? tones

[erowe1]

Palin backs Doug Hoffman in NY-23
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28641.html


So what does this mean for the party. I was unaware that the Conservative Party had people on ballots. I think many of us were right to assume that the party would be fractured. It needs to be completely overhauled and find it's head before suffering another failure of imagination.

Does anyone know the real website of this Hoffman Conservative Party?

Does anyone now believe that there is more unrest and disasitfaction and that is why we are seeing people looking, begging, for a reboot? They don't want anything to do with the labels Democrats or Republicans.

I don't care what the name is, but the third party has no better time to happen than now.

This isn't a party split. The Conservative Party started in like the 60s. It was founded by William F. Buckley. Also, this Hoffman guy might be marginally better than the Republican he's running against, and maybe even ever so slightly better than the average Republican (which isn't saying much). But he's not that special. He's an avowed Keynesian. And the only federal spending he thinks is worth reducing is earmarks (which means nothing at all).
http://www.doughoffmanforcongress.com/issues.html

Also note the video on his site where Huckabee claims to agree with him on everything.

[federalistnp]

I agree with supporting capitalists but I disagree with supporting the party that has no more good ideas. If we could only get all former and disgruntled republicans to unite behind Libertarians or go with an Independent from the 912 group it would be the story of the new century.

The GOP is going to ignore the better more Ron Paul ideas in favor of restoring us to Bush policies.

The GOP has a tarnished reputation in the Media which gives progressives a big head start.

I understand that Ballot access is an issue, but whatever we do radical action needs to be taken now.

Either reformat the Republican party completely or start over with the LP or another party.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Here is a list of all the political parties in the USA. tOnes


Democratic Party
Republican Party (185)

Constitution Party (1992)
Green Party (1996)
Libertarian Party (1971
American Party (1969)
America First Party (2008)
America's Independent Party (2008)
Boston Tea Party (2006)
Independence Party of America (2007)
Moderate Party (2006)
Marijuana Party (2002)(some of you might want to change to this party)
Objectivist Party (2008)
Party for Socialism and Liberation (2004)
Peace and Freedom Party (1967) - active primarily in California
Prohibition Party (1867)
Reform Party of the United States of America (1995) - not to be confused with an offshoot of the party, the American Reform Party (below)
Socialist Equality Party (2008)
Socialist Party of the United States of America (1973)
Socialist Workers Party (1938)
Unity Party of America (2004)
Workers World Party (1959)
Working Families Party

Tones wants to add another one called the Keg Party.

[Matt Collins]

The Chair of the Nashville GOP (I am Vice-Chair) has publicly endorsed the NY non-Republican too.

You can read about it here.... the comments on this page are hilarious too:
http://politics.nashvillepost.com/20...on-republican/

[Bucjason]

The Libertarian and Constitution party are almost identical as far as platforms...only difference is the constitution party is a little more churchy as far as saying the Constitution is founded on "christian principles" ...oh and CP actually has the balls to take a stance in defense of the rights of unborn babies, unlike the LP who are scared to tell us ...

They would be smart to join forces.


As for the GOP splitting?? Probably won't happen. If they sense they are losing thier base , and therefore thier viability, they will move further to the right to get them back. #1 priority in politics is ALWAYS self-preservation.

[specsaregood]

Hrm....
From one of the comments:

frankj unwittingly hits the nail on the head. the case can be made that on the issues tea-baggers claim to care about (taxes, size of government, etc) Scozzafava is the better choice, or at least the one offering a record over rhetoric. But obviously their real priority is in keeping the country as backwards and troglydytic as possible.

Is this true? Does the GOP candidate have a proven fiscal conservative record, even pro 2nd amendment? And their only real beef with her is that she is ok with gay marriage and abortion?

[angelatc]

Palin backs Doug Hoffman in NY-23
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28641.html


So what does this mean for the party. I was unaware that the Conservative Party had people on ballots. I think many of us were right to assume that the party would be fractured. It needs to be completely overhauled and find it's head before suffering another failure of imagination.

.

New York has a voting system that allows candidates to appear on the ballot under multiple parties, and the votes are then combined. Usually the Republican candidate also appears on the Conservative Party ticket. This year they split off.

[Original_Intent]

The Libertarian and Constitution party are almost identical as far as platforms...only difference is the constitution party is a little more churchy as far as saying the Constitution is founded on "christian principles" ...oh and CP actually has the balls to take a stance in defense of the rights of unborn babies, unlike the LP who are scared to tell us ...

They would be smart to join forces.


As for the GOP splitting?? Probably won't happen. If they sense they are losing thier base , and therefore thier viability, they will move further to the right to get them back. #1 priority in politics is ALWAYS self-preservation.

The two biggest differences afaik are the abortion issue (where I side with the CP) and the drug war issue (where I side with the LP). Since the abortion issue is more important to me than the drug war issue, I stick with the CP.

Also, the CP is far more principle based, they will SUPPORT a candidate of another party if his or her principles are correct, but the LP I have found to be very much more concerned about "building the party", their non-support of Ron Paul and their excuses for not doing so bear that out. Now I understand a lot of LP MEMBERS were huge supporters of Ron Paul, but I just thought the party leadership's lack of enthusiasm for Ron Paul and the reasons they gave ("it's against our by-laws, blah blah blah) showed a very strong partisan element that I didn't care for.

[New York For Paul]

Many regular donors are jumping ship and refusing to donate to the RNC because of this race.

The RNC should have stayed out. While the RNC donate hundreds of thousands to help a rino, many conservative donors are witholding hundreds of thousands of dollars to protest this action.

For many Newt Gingrich has destroyed his credibility. His fundraising is going to take a huge hit.

[torchbearer]

The two biggest differences afaik are the abortion issue (where I side with the CP) and the drug war issue (where I side with the LP). Since the abortion issue is more important to me than the drug war issue, I stick with the CP.

Also, the CP is far more principle based, they will SUPPORT a candidate of another party if his or her principles are correct, but the LP I have found to be very much more concerned about "building the party", their non-support of Ron Paul and their excuses for not doing so bear that out. Now I understand a lot of LP MEMBERS were huge supporters of Ron Paul, but I just thought the party leadership's lack of enthusiasm for Ron Paul and the reasons they gave ("it's against our by-laws, blah blah blah) showed a very strong partisan element that I didn't care for.

You do realize their is no position on abortion in the LP. People have this notion that it is a baby killer party, and that isn't true. That is fox news propoganda you need flushed from your brain.

[Original_Intent]

You do realize their is no position on abortion in the LP. People have this notion that it is a baby killer party, and that isn't true. That is fox news propoganda you need flushed from your brain.

I understand that their "no position" is a cop out "everyone decides for themselves" which is a default pro-choice position. Not going to get into a pro-choice vs. pro-abort vs. pro-life discussion, as I think that would derail the thread.

I don't watch Fox, and have gotten all of my understanding of the LP position from LP members themselves, not third parties.

[Original_Intent]

FOr those of you who pray for the demise of the GOP I hope you are ready for full blown socialism and prepare to say good bye to what is left of the constitution. TONES

Yep the current leadership of the GOP have certainly showed themselves to be defenders of the constitution - not. I don't pray for the death of the GOP so much as I pray for it to be taken back to its founding principles. I really don't want it to die anyway because then the Neocons would just scramble to take over whatever replaces it. I hope the party stays intact enough that they continue to fight to keep it on life support while all Americans of good intent move to a third and maybe even a fourth party.

[Pennsylvania]

When I was little, a "party" meant one thing. I'd like to reinstate that standard as soon as possible. We don't need more political parties, we need people with principles.

[torchbearer]

I understand that their "no position" is a cop out "everyone decides for themselves" which is a default pro-choice position. Not going to get into a pro-choice vs. pro-abort vs. pro-life discussion, as I think that would derail the thread.

I don't watch Fox, and have gotten all of my understanding of the LP position from LP members themselves, not third parties.

Ron Paul is a member of the Libertarian Party, and is Pro-life. I guess you wouldn't have supported his 1988 presidential bid as a member of the baby-killer party.

[Brian4Liberty]

I have noticed that many groups are now being created and calling themselves "Conservative". They are aligning themselves with the Tea Party movement, and are hoping to lead them.

The disturbing thing is, that the vast majority are obviously full-blown neo-conservatives trying to take the reigns once again...

[LDA]

There needs to be a party for fiscal conservatives/libertarians, without all the social conservatism crap. Social conservatism, in pretty much all forms, aims to restrict personal freedom. I'm not going to condone that.

The thing is, the GOP isn't going to be able to oust the religious nutjob wing of the party. They're too influential. So what do we do? Continue to let Democrats run the country into the ground?

[torchbearer]

There needs to be a party for fiscal conservatives/libertarians, without all the social conservatism crap. Social conservatism, in pretty much all forms, aims to restrict personal freedom. I'm not going to condone that.

The thing is, the GOP isn't going to be able to oust the religious nutjob wing of the party. They're too influential. So what do we do? Continue to let Democrats run the country into the ground?

problem with the nutjobs of the GOP, they vote on one issue alone. Abortion.
They don't care if its a neocon who is only paying lip-service. They will vote for the tyrant because of one issue alone. Doesn't matter if he wants to send their children to die in some foreign land for nothing.
Case in point- George Bush and the Republican majority congress. I bet everyone of those GOPers in congress gave lip-service to "pro-life", but when they could have done something about it. They did nothing.
I don't think the nutjobs of the GOP have figured it out yet. Some people on this forum haven't figured it out either.