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Thread: The Holy Grail of Converting Pro-War Republicans to Ron Paul

  1. #31

    Default

    I posted this over at meetup.

    It combines the Reagan Speech and coverage of Victor Gold concerning Ron Paul as a modern day Barry Goldwater.

    Hope you can spread it around.

    http://ronpaul.meetup.com/boards/vie...thread=3617532



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  3. #32

    Wink

    One of the toughest nuts to crack that we have with a lot of the Republican/conservative voters is the "war" issue. The neocons continue to refer to this nation building as the "Iraqi war" and continue to proffer the rally cry that we must "win the war." They do this to instill a false sense of patriotic obligation that is still playing very well with many Republican and conservative voters.

    Let's stop letting the neocons dictate the false terminology on this issue. The Truth is there is no war. We won the war four years ago. We conquered the Iraqi military four years ago. What we have now in the Iraqi nation building is an "Iraqi Foreign Aid Project" or rather an "Iraqi Foreign Aid Boondoggle." Let's call it what it truly is, an "Iraqi Foreign Aid Project."

    If we reject the neocon position that "we are in a war," and instead use more truthful language that we are really in a "Giant Iraqi Foreign Aid Boondoggle" we break the neocons false hold on many American's patriotic sense of obligation that they must support the war -- that we must win.

    Most conservative Republicans tend to automatically have a gut rejection of any foreign aid. Show them that the Iraq situation is simply a giant foreign aid boondoggle.

    I have begun using this tactic with Republicans and conservatives that are diehard war supporters and have already had some "aha" moments and eye openings, and even a couple conversions. I tell them we are not at war. We already conquered Iraq four years ago. What we have now is simply a Giant Foreign Aid Boondoggle to build a foreign nation courtesy of American taxpayers, while neglecting our own borders. We still haven't built but 17 new miles of wall on our southern border.

  4. #33

    Default

    Awesome. I'm not going to rest until I convert my mother, and this might just do it. Another thing I have found is the documentary, "Iraq for sale: The war profiteers". http://iraqforsale.org/
    Holy s%*t. No wonder Ron Paul gets so much support from the military. They think they are going over to fight to free the Iraqi people and help rebuild their country, and find that they are just pawns in a giant money stealing scheme by the military/industrial complex. It makes the blood boil.
    There's a new phrase for honesty, integrity, and common sense in government. It's called "Ron Paulitics"

    We are "Liberty Republicans"

  5. #34

    Default

    Can We Get Someone To Create A Comparison Between Reagan And Paul?

  6. #35

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    I'm not video savvy, but I think it would be extremely affective to Connect Paul to this speech in some way. Maybe show quotes from this speech and show "Ron Paul" as the one who spoke them only to have the name dissipate, replaced with Reagan's name. THEN show Ron Paul saying something very similar.

  7. #36

    Arrow can you post to you tube please

    can you post to youtube please?...I think youtube has more following and recognition....

    Thanks

  8. #37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by curiousobserver View Post
    can you post to youtube please?...I think youtube has more following and recognition....

    Thanks
    It's a bit too long to put on YouTube. People have put the audio up in 3 parts though.

    Also, here's a stupid FOX News take on it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HIp0SC2Gso
    Last edited by Shii; 11-06-2007 at 09:00 PM.
    Truth never damages a cause that is just." --Mahatma Gandhi

  9. #38

    Default

    This is an excellent video and fits in well with Eisenhower's speech about the Military Industrial Complex...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

    Is there any way to download the Eisenhower speech?? I already downloaded the Reagan Speech. I would like to make a DVD of the "old" speeches, then a second DVD of Ron Paul practically quoting everything from Reagan and Eisenhower. (Maybe even add that episode from the early Twilight Zone Series about the "Obsolete Man.")

    BTW - I think both of these would do well on a Ron Paul Website such as the Veterans Day Site and even on the Boston Tea Party Site - let folks who are undecided about contributing know what this is REALLY all about! We aren't nut jobs and fruit cakes, we aren't conspiracy theorist, crabgrass, blah blah blah - and this is no laughing matter! This is reality - Rod Stirling even warned us that the time would come when we would be mocked and ridiculed...

  10. #39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Zak View Post
    Can We Get Someone To Create A Comparison Between Reagan And Paul?
    I think this would be a great idea!!! If the campaign comes out and openly identifies itself with the figure that Regan has become in the minds of so many it could serve 2 valuable purposes:

    1. The most obvious...It would associate RP with their hero from the 80's and grow support

    2. It would stir up controversy by those who would disagree...promoting more curiosity and getting us longer than ONE DAY in the spotlight at a time.


    Hillary and Rudy are being DRONED about each and every day all day in the news because there are constantly new little controversies to talk about

    A LITTLE CONTROVERSY NEVER HURT ANYONE!!! and really how bad is it when your controversy stems around being compared to what most find a National Hero.

  11. #40

    Default

    I was really excited and I was going to show this to my parents... Until the last 5 minutes. That's definitely pro-war right now. Not something that's going to sway my parents, as the only two reasons that my parents don't support Paul are that:

    1) Against the Iraq War
    2) Against the Patriot Act

    They think we are much safer with the Patriot Act because apparently, worldwide terrorist attacks have gone down. They noticed that they have also gone down with the Iraq War, so those two things must be keeping us safe....

    What should I do???? I've pulled out pretty much all the stops, and they keep saying that our war spending is a "drop in the bucket compared to other government programs, and our safety is worth anything".
    I just don't know what went wrong!

  12. #41

    Default

    I agree with priest_of_syrinx Reagan was very pro debt to support his position against USSR. He was very pro militaristic intervention as long as it was not directly against the USSR. I’m still looking for to persuade the brain washed pro war Republicans to go along with non-militaristic intervention but they can’t be persuaded. They seem to think the US has a right to meddle in the affairs of other countries when American “interests” are at stake. This thread really should not be stickyied. It does not have the answers needed.

  13. #42

    Default

    Ask the pro-war Republicans why they support borrowing $3 billion a day from the Chinese central government if they care about national security.

    The most important element for long term national security is the economy. Ask them why they support draining the economy by maintaining hundreds of military bases in over a 130 countries around the world.

  14. #43

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisAZ View Post
    One of the toughest nuts to crack that we have with a lot of the Republican/conservative voters is the "war" issue. The neocons continue to refer to this nation building as the "Iraqi war" and continue to proffer the rally cry that we must "win the war." They do this to instill a false sense of patriotic obligation that is still playing very well with many Republican and conservative voters.

    Let's stop letting the neocons dictate the false terminology on this issue. The Truth is there is no war. We won the war four years ago. We conquered the Iraqi military four years ago. What we have now in the Iraqi nation building is an "Iraqi Foreign Aid Project" or rather an "Iraqi Foreign Aid Boondoggle." Let's call it what it truly is, an "Iraqi Foreign Aid Project."

    If we reject the neocon position that "we are in a war," and instead use more truthful language that we are really in a "Giant Iraqi Foreign Aid Boondoggle" we break the neocons false hold on many American's patriotic sense of obligation that they must support the war -- that we must win.

    Most conservative Republicans tend to automatically have a gut rejection of any foreign aid. Show them that the Iraq situation is simply a giant foreign aid boondoggle.

    I have begun using this tactic with Republicans and conservatives that are diehard war supporters and have already had some "aha" moments and eye openings, and even a couple conversions. I tell them we are not at war. We already conquered Iraq four years ago. What we have now is simply a Giant Foreign Aid Boondoggle to build a foreign nation courtesy of American taxpayers, while neglecting our own borders. We still haven't built but 17 new miles of wall on our southern border.
    Your comment that "One of the toughest nuts to crack that we have with a lot of the Republican/conservative voters is the "war" issue." is one I have also argued. Indeed, I would say it is THE key issue holding Ron Paul back from probably a 10%+ jump in the polls.

    That said, I have to congratulate you on your cogent knockout 'The "Iraq War" was won four years ago when we defeated the Iraqi army - what we have left is a giant foreign aid boondoogle. ' (You probably said it better, I will have to practice :-). This is brilliant!

    I would like to work with you and whoever else might be interested to come up with an overall distillation of the message that Ron Paul favors a STRONG military. People are falsely equating military budget, military strategy, and (specifically) outposts diffused around the world as equivalent to strength.

    Combining your brilliant "the war is won" comment with a similarly powerful message that we are not deployed - we are DILUTED around the world and stuck on a fifty-year obsolete military strategy.

    It would help, imo, (but may not be necessary if we can come up with another knock-out punch such as the one you just delivered to the "win the war" folks) if we could flesh this out with historical facts, 'reframings', logic, and counterexamples (e.g., Israel doesn't have outposts around the world; Sparta/Greece beat the vastly larger Persians).

    Any interest?

  15. #44

    Default Denver craigs list... listing.

    I just posted this on Denver craigslist. I start off talking about how all the canidates lie. Then show this Regan video. Then a Youtube Ron Paul video (energizing) then finish off with a set of links to the house and senate to check voting records. The people on the site all seem to hate bush, Love false conservatism and "think" Paul is a Kook from what the TV has said.
    Here is a link to the post: http://denver.craigslist.org/pol/489016942.html

    Tell me what you think.
    Last edited by ayort; 11-25-2007 at 03:02 PM. Reason: mis-spelling

  16. #45

    Default

    What a brilliant speech.

  17. #46

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    What an incredible speech.
    Peace cannot be kept by force but rather achieved only through understanding

  18. #47

    Default

    REP. PAUL: But you have to realize that the base of the Republican Party shrunk last year because of the war issue. So that percentage represents less people. If you look at 65 to 70 percent of the American people, they want us out of there. They want the war over.

    In 19- -- 2002, I offerer an amendment to International Relations to declare war, up or down, and it was -- nobody voted for the war. And my argument there was, if we want to go to war, and if we should go to war, the Congress should declare it. We don't go to war like we did in Vietnam and Korea, because the wars never end. And I argued the case and made the point that it would be a quagmire if we go in.

    Ronald Reagan in 1983 sent Marines into Lebanon, and he said he would never turn tail and run. A few months later, the Marines were killed, 241 were killed, and the Marines were taken out. And Reagan addressed this subject in his memoirs. And he says, "I said I would never turn tail and run." He says, "But I never realized the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics," and he changed his policy there.

    We need the courage of a Ronald Reagan.


    SOURCE: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/15/us...in&oref=slogin

  19. #48

    Default

    Thanks for the sticky, I never saw this.... it is the holy grail. This should be our Infomercial.
    It's institutional memory that we have lost... it needs to be renewed.
    rewritten history with armies of their crooks - invented memories, did burn all the books... Mark Knopfler

  20. #49

    Default

    I think it would help if Dr. Paul was a better speaker like Reagan.

  21. #50

    Default

    That is because we are trained to look for the sizzle, and somehow the delivery is supposed to be the steak. Reagan opened the door, and Clinton built the stage.


    I have come to this site because of the message and Dr. Paul's track record on the issues such as the war (which I personally am still not decisive about, although the observation about Reagan and Lebanon is food for thought) immigration, the present open borders, and the absurd amount of power that we the people have handed to the federal government.

  22. #51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BarryDonegan View Post
    i really urge that a ron paul supporter show this to your sortof neoconned friends who idolize reagan, without the thomas jefferson quotes or ron paul stuff cut in. just seeing ron pauls message come out of reagan's mouth is more powerful to them. try it out if your at an empasse. im pretty sure this is the beginning part of his famous speech endorsing barry goldwater... the vietnam statement i think is a minute and a half in.
    I think it needs to be cut into a more manageable size.

    He says something about Vietnam that may indeed confuse them, but then talks about big government, farm subsidies, etc., and they'll forget what's going on, because the old familiar "gotta stop those big-spending Democrats with a Republican who can win" reflex will then kick in.

    And Giuliani's a "mainstream libertarian", don'tcha know, who was forced into supporting a war by 9/11. He wants peace, too, and so do the others.

    Besides, wasn't it lots and lots and lots of military spending by Reagan that finally forced the Russkies to their knees - and so shouldn't we triple it, if that's what it takes? Don't you wanna save your children from the crazies? Better bankrupt than dead!

    Maybe he was only talking about Vietnam because the Democrats were doing it wrong, or whatever, they'll comfortably slide into thinking.

    If you can isolate what he said about Vietnam here, and find a few more Reagan quotes to support it (with parallel Ron Paul quotes), it would probably hit harder.

    A great one-liner was said by RP on Meet the Press. On "assigning responsibilty", he made the analogy of stepping into a snake pit. Whose "fault" is it when you get bit?

  23. #52

    Default

    Barry - thank you for that link.

    That is the BEST video of Reagan I have ever seen. Well worth the 28 minutes.

    The neocons kidnapped him because he was such a good Communicator and used him to further their cause. Most of what he was warning about in this speach came true. Yes, in his administration too.

    I cannot believe how much it sounds like Dr Paul.

  24. #53

    Default

    That speech is what really got me motivated. I mean, beyond just being passionate about Ron Paul, but about liberty and all that good stuff. I listen to it very often for inspiration

    Anyway, here's an awesome video of "The Speech" + Ron Paul:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRcXfDt3ByI
    while (gov > constitution) gov--;

  25. #54

    Default for the warmongers

    How many innocent children have been killed or maimed in Iraq?Last I heard thier were about 5000 of them dead.Ask your friends if someone killed or maimed thier child would they then join them in thier endevers to kill or maim more children?Exactly how did removing Saddam help to fight terrorism?By turning the parents of the children killed or maimed into united states patriots?All the neocon canidates say the cost of the war was worth it.They can't explain how so they spin it but if confronted by the facts thier argument shows they just want to keep filling the pockets of munnitions mfgs. with blood money.If we pull out of Iraq there will be blowback but much less than if we don't.The dems aren't any better.Pelosi has blocked impeachment.Why?Bringing troops home where thier not hated is support.Giving them more bombs and munnitions is supporting munnitions mfgs.This country has become morally bankrupt and most of the people refuse to see it.


    The worlds scientists have concluded the world needs an enima.....
    they'll insert the tube in washington D.C.

  26. #55

    Default

    I'm totally confused. Did everyone here watch the same video?

    Other than that one comment about Vietnam in the beginning, I see no evidence that Ronald Regan was against a War on [Blank](fill in terrorism or communism) whichever you like. He talked about peace through strength, "not backing down from our enemies" etc... That part of his speech sounded straight out of a neocon book??

    The libertarian part of his speech was brilliant, and it's a shame the foreign policy part of it isn't on our side.

  27. #56

    Default

    that was during an era when the war on communism was not having to be fought on our soil. currently it is.
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  28. #57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ClayTrainor View Post
    wow richard man, great job finding this.
    I intend to shut a few people up, that ive had arguments with and i think this video is the tool to do it.
    i hate how alot of the neo-cons quote Reagan all the time yet, they go against almost everything he stood for.
    Great Speech!!!
    You got that right! That's why I was banned from http://www.patriotactionnetwork.com/

  29. #58

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by USAF_Saylor View Post
    You got that right! That's why I was banned from http://www.patriotactionnetwork.com/
    Patriot Action Network / ResistNet are complete co-opted/hi-jacked/Falsely fronted, so-called TEA PARTY sites. They have nothing to do with Freedoms, Liberties, and Rights. They're all for Global conquest and funded by the like of big establishment GOP Fascists; Sal Russo, Dick Army, & Andrew Breitart, NEOCON Express aka TP Express, Establishment Fascists laundering their money through these fronted individuals organizations and marketing firms like Dick Army's Freedom Works, PNAC (Project for the New American Century), GOP political marketing and consulting firm: Russo, Marsh, & Rogers and even funds from the Republican Jewish Congress. This phony Tea Party Sites dialog will always be; controlled, steered, and related censoring... you always can find prepared ringers to incite articles that are; racist, Pro US global wars & conquests, jingoism, fear/security, 110% support for Israel, and more money for THEIR agendas. They will always use all the typical government propaganda symbols to manipulate the unsuspecting, unknowing, and plain ignorant followers with THEIR SILENT PARTNERS/MONEY MASTERS versions of NEO Far-Right agenda.

    Even Mark Meckler and his wife (organized Tax Day Protests) have stated that the NEOCON/ESTABLISHMENT DC orgs/etc, have stolen, bribed/bought off, and now control most of these Phony Tea Party Sites like Patriot Action Network / RESISTNET.

    This needs to be exposed much more...
    The American Dream, Wake Up People, This is our country! <===click

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    June 1826



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  30. #59

    Default

    I just emailed the video to the great Sean Hannity and the Beckster.

    We'll see what I get back since Reagan is Hannity's God and litmus test for all politicians.

  31. #60
    “I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.” - Thomas Jefferson

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