Restore the Paleo-Alliance?

[Libertas Aut Mortis]

In the 1990's, Lew Rockwell laid out "The Case for Paleo-Libertarianism".

You can find that here: http://anarcho-monarchism.com/2016/0...ibertarianism/

A few years ago, he has seemingly shed the "Paleo" title, because it was hijacked by Mercantilists and Statists, and he didn't want to be associated with that.

You can find that here: http://archive.lewrockwell.com/rockw...interview.html


So the question I bring forth to you all today, starts from the assumption that we are all sympathetic to "Paleo-Libertarianism" as it was originally laid out: Meaning, we are Old Right Libertarians.

So, lets take a look at the Trump Phenomena. I'll admit, I have done my fair share of "atta boys" as I've watched Trump shred Neo-Cons, Progressives, the Republicans, the Democrats, and everyone inbetween. Optimistically, he could be viewed as a wrecking ball, turning the Establishment Cartel into a flaming pile of rubble.

But make no mistake, while he has his Buchananite moments of Paley-Conservatism, there are also very real moments of Statism. Rockwell may have abandoned the Paleo title because of Buchanans transgressions, but he has recently been promoting (and I have no idea why), Trump...an extremely Statist version of Buchanan; wholly without the ability to process things such as, Liberty...or Virtue. He is an ideological authoritarian, who sometimes has mildly rational policy. I, and I'm hoping all of you, want absolutely nothing to do with that.

But...but. We have an opportunity here to co-opt this Paleo-Con resurgence by bringing them out of the authoritarian wilderness, and into our libertarian civilization. Truly, half of the work is already done for us. They have questioned the "establishment", meaning the neocons who have a stranglehold on the party. A good chunk of the Trumpkins see him as a small government guy....that is our way in.

When, Trump takes the nomination, and the party...it gives us an incredible opportunity to out-conservative the GOP. Operating under the assumption that he wins...all we need to do is blow the whistle against him...not using "establishment" rhetoric, like Rand attempted to do "See guys, he won't promise to support the Republicans..."....no, we need to be bold and like our Freak Flag fly! Capture the anger and discontent that the electorate has against the government in general. We, and only we, can do this with any sort of intellectual honesty.

But this MUST be a Republican movement. The Libertarian Party, and it's panzy assed Libertine affiliates are toxic (as Rockwell points out in his article).

Alright team, lets hear your thoughts.

[William Tell]

Unfortunately many if not most of the Paleos have lost all their principles lately. At the same time the libertarians have lost their motivation. We are currently doomed.

I hope the situation changes some time after Trump goes down in flames.

[LibertyEagle]

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[Libertas Aut Mortis]

I'm thinkin' that freak flag needs to stay hidden.

Oh come on, where is your sense of political adventure? Wouldn't you rather just tell people exactly what we think, without trying to make ourselves electable?

[LibertyEagle]

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[Libertas Aut Mortis]

Oh come on, where is your sense of political adventure? Wouldn't you rather just tell people exactly what we think, without trying to make ourselves electable?

It's sad that talking about freedom is revolutionary these days.

[LibertyEagle]

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[Libertas Aut Mortis]

It depends on your definition of freedom. I don't call what was quoted in this post to equate to "freedom". http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6181237

To be fair, I never promoted that post as an example of Paleo-Libertarian thought....in fact, I would say that it is quite morally relativistic and egalitarian. The only interesting argument that I saw in there is to tie age of consent to a minimum age (or other requirement) needed to legally take part in a contract...in which case, sex, working, purchasing, selling, voting, really anything would be legal to contract yourself into...anything not meeting contracting requirements would obviously be void.

I don't think I support that, but it was at least a compelling case.

[The Gold Standard]

We have an opportunity here to co-opt this Paleo-Con resurgence by bringing them out of the authoritarian wilderness, and into our libertarian civilization.

No, "we" don't. You have the majority of this place begging the government to slap a heavy tax on any products they want to buy from overseas. The authoritarians are doing the co-opting.

[LibertyEagle]

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[staerker]

That's not true. All I have seen is people arguing for for keeping a watch on the trade balance and for U.S. companies to be afforded the same rules of operation as are the trading partners in our so-called "free trade agreements">

By slapping heavy taxes on products they want to buy from overseas.

[LibertyEagle]

//

[Libertas Aut Mortis]

I haven't been in the 2016 forums for awhile...is it really getting that bad?

[acptulsa]

I haven't been in the 2016 forums for awhile...is it really getting that bad?

The harder they try to hijack your thread, the more of a compliment you're getting.

If it's a crappy idea, they don't bother with you.

[LibertyEagle]

Oh, I think it's a good idea and all. It's what should have been done with the tea parties at the outset. But, people here chose not to.

I just don't think the purpose should be to further libertarians. I personally care about saving my country, or what's left of it. If that is possible at all.

NOTE: But, you know, if you were actually trying to kick off a project, I apologize. I certainly didn't intend to derail your effort. I will delete my posts. After watching what has been allowed to go on here, I must admit that I have become pretty cynical.

[Libertas Aut Mortis]

The harder they try to hijack your thread, the more of a compliment you're getting.

If it's a crappy idea, they don't bother with you.

That would explain the complete lack of substance in the discussion thus far

[Libertas Aut Mortis]

Oh, I think it's a good idea and all. It's what should have been done with the tea parties at the outset. But, people here chose not to.

I just don't think the purpose should be to further libertarians. I personally care about saving my country, or what's left of it. If that is possible at all.

That is fair, but how would you save the country? This is my solution...what's yours? It doesn't need to be drawn out, just a few points.

[Ronin Truth]

Lew ain't the spokesman nor shepherd for libertarians. No one is.

Now 'Libertarians' is an altogether different matter and who cares or gives a crap?

[LibertyEagle]

That is fair, but how would you save the country? This is my solution...what's yours? It doesn't need to be drawn out, just a few points.

I've always thought the best thing would be to focus on our own towns and states. Things like getting the UN's Agenda 21 thrown out of our communities. As we do that, there will be opportunities to join up with others on those things where we find agreement. Working together, both sides let down their defenses and listen to each other. To me, that has a lot better chance than getting in someone's face and flying whatever freak flag.

[Libertas Aut Mortis]

Lew ain't the spokesman nor shepherd for libertarians. No one is.

Now 'Libertarians' is an altogether different matter and who cares or gives a crap?

I see your point, and I agree. We are all different in our own fun little ways. I actually find it highly interesting to pick at your brains and how you all think. And as I said, I disagree with Lew (especially right now with his Trumpetering)...but his Paleo Alliance was a good idea I think....and maybe we could apply it to this resurgence of Paleo-Cons? I guess what I'm saying is...they are at a prime point for being indoctrinated into our clique, Lew tried to link arms with them...I want to convert them. Once the wool is removed, maybe then they can explore other libertarian ideas.

But Libertarians...screw em. Just as bad as Republicans and Democratics.

[LibertyEagle]

I see your point, and I agree. We are all different in our own fun little ways. I actually find it highly interesting to pick at your brains and how you all think. And as I said, I disagree with Lew (especially right now with his Trumpetering)...but his Paleo Alliance was a good idea I think....and maybe we could apply it to this resurgence of Paleo-Cons? I guess what I'm saying is...they are at a prime point for being indoctrinated into our clique, Lew tried to link arms with them...I want to convert them. Once the wool is removed, maybe then they can explore other libertarian ideas.

But Libertarians...screw em. Just as bad as Republicans and Democratics.

Well, I am a conservative; a real one. They started calling them paleocons after the neocons took over the movement. I have been here since '07 and have not been indoctrinated. You can credit the anarchists for that.

[Libertas Aut Mortis]

I've always thought the best thing would be to focus on our own towns and states. Things like getting the UN's Agenda 21 thrown out of our communities. As we do that, there will be opportunities to join up with others on those things where we find agreement. Working together, both sides let down their defenses and listen to each other. To me, that has a lot better chance than getting in someone's face and flying whatever freak flag.

You're really harping on the freak flag comment. Please see it in context. Advocating against agenda 21 is flying the freak flag. Going against the grain. Telling the truth about things. That is what I mean.

Now your local based solution is excellent...except tyranny is already here. Central gov. oppression will continue regardless of if we raise our local millage or not.


I think we need activism at all levels

[LibertyEagle]

Yeah, I agree. When I said that about local/state, it's because I think the federal government is too far gone. I personally think we are wasting our time thinking we can get someone really good in as President. Maybe for the Senate, quite possibly for the House, but beyond that, I think we are wasting time we could spend on our own communities and states. Not to say they aren't corrupt too, because they are. But, it takes far fewer people and a whole lost less money to exact a change there.

[Libertas Aut Mortis]

Yeah, I agree. When I said that about local/state, it's because I think the federal government is too far gone. I personally think we are wasting our time thinking we can get someone really good in as President. Maybe for the Senate, quite possibly for the House, but beyond that, I think we are wasting time we could spend on our own communities and states. Not to say they aren't corrupt too, because they are. But, it takes far fewer people and a whole lost less money to exact a change there.

I just hate the thought of conceding defeat at the Federal Level

[LibertyEagle]

I just hate the thought of conceding defeat at the Federal Level

There's still the House of Representatives and possibly, the Senate, with the right person.

[Libertas Aut Mortis]

There's still the House of Representatives and possibly, the Senate, with the right person.

Very true. And we need to really focus on getting allies in their soon.

But Trumps success is encouraging. The electorate, I think, is so sick and tired of the powers that be, that they just want something fresh that isn't laced with bull$#@!. I honestly don't know who would be a good Pres pick for 2020...but getting guys in Congress would sure be a good step in the right direction. A tireless minority can sway a majority. Especially when they are being receptive.

[Libertas Aut Mortis]

What do you guys think about working within the party versus going 3rd party (and I'm aware that some of you don't vote...that's fine, but you should still at least wish for allies to hold elected office...the more Rons the better)

[Antischism]

"Paleolibertarianism" is a perversion of libertarianism that caters to hardcore social conservatives and white supremacists/nationalists. It was part of the "southern strategy" Rockwell and Rothbard laid out in the 90s which gloriously backfired. Rockwell is a charlatan.

[LibertyEagle]

"Paleolibertarianism" is a perversion of libertarianism that caters to hardcore social conservatives and white supremacists/nationalists. It was part of the "southern strategy" Rockwell and Rothbard laid out in the 90s which gloriously backfired. Rockwell is a charlatan.

And it is this kind of BS, Libertas, that is why we can't have nice things.

[Antischism]

And it is this kind of BS, Libertas, that is why we can't have nice things.

Make no mistake, I still have a lot more in common with "paleolibertarians" than full-blown statists. ;]