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Thread: The GOP might do just as well letting Kokesh go for it

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by No1ButPaul08 View Post
    The first sentence is complete nonsense, and falls within the previous investment trap. Kokesh's whole candidacy is a waste of time. Yes there are 100's more spots to fill (you could actually shut down big government with 40 senators.), but there is very limited resources, which needto be used wisely. Any resources used towards Kokesh's candidacy, takes away resources from IMO, a more worthwhile cause
    And if you're in New Mexico and you just want another conversation starter, much as Ron Paul's presidential campaign has done so much to start this conversation nationwide? And if you're misreading the New Mexico voter, and Kokesh's in-your-face conservatism is just the thing at this point in history to strike a chord with them? And if this saps just enough resources from the neocon forces to allow both Schiff and Paul the Younger into the Senate?

    And by the way, honey, honey, poison refers to someone who suckers people into caring about their opinion by seeming to care about people, then purposely introduces some disruptive element designed to serve other interests than the people's interests.
    The only way--the only way--the Republicans could possibly fail to capitalize on the Obamacare debacle and fail to win the White House in 2016 is by being stubborn and stupid enough to nominate someone besides Rand Paul.

    That's the only way they could possibly blow it. If we nominate Paul the presidency is a lock for the G.O.P. I guarantee it.



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  3. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    And if you're in New Mexico and you just want another conversation starter, much as Ron Paul's presidential campaign has done so much to start this conversation nationwide?
    We don't need conversation starters, we need candidate's who can win.

    And if you're misreading the New Mexico voter, and Kokesh's in-your-face conservatism is just the thing at this point in history to strike a chord with them?
    Ha, I highly doubt it. Kokesh supporters love to toss around the fact the current Rep got 57% i the last election. They conveniently leave out the fact there was a independent running who took a lot of votes from the Dem. The GOP candidate got 28%.


    And if this saps just enough resources from the neocon forces to allow both Schiff and Paul the Younger into the Senate?
    What the fuck are you talking about? Are there even any neocons in that district? This is so completely backwards it's not even funny. The only people this race is going to sap resources from is Schiff and Paul. Any volunteers or donators to Adam could have been doing that for Schiff and Rand.
    We need immigrants in this country. What we don't need is politicians. Get rid of them! - Peter Schiff

  4. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by No1ButPaul08 View Post
    We don't need conversation starters, we need candidate's who can win.
    We need to think about the early game, the middle game and the end game. Anything less and we're screwed. Volunteers actually in New Mexico are unlikely to campaign on the eastern seaboard unless they're independently wealthy. An interesting campaign by Kokesh could in some way I can't define yet help pave the way for Gary Johnson to jump back into politics. And Republican vs. Yellow Dog Democrat means a lot less both in the southwest and this year than you seem to think it does.

    I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that there are so many variables in this thing that the conventional equations might not add up as well as you think they will.

    I actually appreciate you voicing your reservations. I think you raise valid concerns. But I just don't know if all of the usual tidbits of conventional wisdom apply in this case.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 08-14-2009 at 11:45 AM.
    The only way--the only way--the Republicans could possibly fail to capitalize on the Obamacare debacle and fail to win the White House in 2016 is by being stubborn and stupid enough to nominate someone besides Rand Paul.

    That's the only way they could possibly blow it. If we nominate Paul the presidency is a lock for the G.O.P. I guarantee it.

  5. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    We need to think about the early game, the middle game and the end game. Anything less and we're screwed. Volunteers actually in New Mexico are unlikely to campaign on the eastern seaboard unless they're independently wealthy. An interesting campaign by Kokesh could in some way I can't define yet help pave the way for Gary Johnson to jump back into politics. And Republican vs. Yellow Dog Democrat means a lot less both in the southwest and this year than you seem to think it does.

    I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that there are so many variables in this thing that the conventional equations might not add up as well as you think they will.

    I actually appreciate you voicing your reservations. I think you raise valid concerns. But I just don't know if all of the usual tidbits of conventional wisdom apply in this case.
    Unfortunately, no matter how inspired I am by Kokesh, he does have a few skeletons in his closet that have the potential to be campaign killers. I'm not trying to derail or demotivate but this is something that the grassroots need to be aware of so they can make decisions about where to put their financial support.
    Only you can ignite freedom fires!-- phill4paul

    I don't live to fight. I fight to live.



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  6. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLightShining View Post
    Unfortunately, no matter how inspired I am by Kokesh, he does have a few skeletons in his closet that have the potential to be campaign killers. I'm not trying to derail or demotivate but this is something that the grassroots need to be aware of so they can make decisions about where to put their financial support.
    Agreed. And I see no need to spam over it.

    New Mexico is a unique and wonderful state. It'll actually be interesting to see how his skeletons play there. But, you know, I do wonder if money will be the deciding factor in a race like that. I'm all for southwesterners volunteering for him with their hands and hearts, but perhaps the money could well be better invested back east.

    Well, I've not given to Kokesh myself, though I have given out of state this cycle. And I'll be busy with Brogdon and other local campaigns here. But I'm with you that information is good, and our discretionary spending is dependent on our discretion.
    The only way--the only way--the Republicans could possibly fail to capitalize on the Obamacare debacle and fail to win the White House in 2016 is by being stubborn and stupid enough to nominate someone besides Rand Paul.

    That's the only way they could possibly blow it. If we nominate Paul the presidency is a lock for the G.O.P. I guarantee it.

  7. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that there are so many variables in this thing that the conventional equations might not add up as well as you think they will.

    I actually appreciate you voicing your reservations. I think you raise valid concerns. But I just don't know if all of the usual tidbits of conventional wisdom apply in this case.
    What it boils down to, I think, is picking your spots wisely. I wish we could run 535 candidates and support them all, but it's just not feasable. What's Kokesh's candidacy amounts to is a fantasy, with very little shot of victory. On the other hand, we have Schiff and Paul, both with real shots at winning a Senate seat. Personally I wish we wouldn't run any House candidates (besides RP of course) and concentrate on these two races. Winning one of these is a gamechanger, not so if Kokesh were to somehow win.
    We need immigrants in this country. What we don't need is politicians. Get rid of them! - Peter Schiff

  8. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by No1ButPaul08 View Post
    What it boils down to, I think, is picking your spots wisely. I wish we could run 535 candidates and support them all, but it's just not feasable. What's Kokesh's candidacy amounts to is a fantasy, with very little shot of victory. On the other hand, we have Schiff and Paul, both with real shots at winning a Senate seat. Personally I wish we wouldn't run any House candidates (besides RP of course) and concentrate on these two races. Winning one of these is a gamechanger, not so if Kokesh were to somehow win.
    +1
    Schiff and Rand don't have the baggage that Kokesh has and winning those seats is really vital. They also face tough campaigns where money will be necessary to win. We need some champions of liberty in the senate. I think if we do have folks running for house seats the focus of those campaigns needs to be on educating the people. When Ron Paul ran he didn't expect to win. He wanted to get the message out.
    Only you can ignite freedom fires!-- phill4paul

    I don't live to fight. I fight to live.



    http://www.ronpaulvermont.com/
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  9. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by No1ButPaul08 View Post
    What it boils down to, I think, is picking your spots wisely. I wish we could run 535 candidates and support them all, but it's just not feasable. What's Kokesh's candidacy amounts to is a fantasy, with very little shot of victory. On the other hand, we have Schiff and Paul, both with real shots at winning a Senate seat. Personally I wish we wouldn't run any House candidates (besides RP of course) and concentrate on these two races. Winning one of these is a gamechanger, not so if Kokesh were to somehow win.
    But, you see, that's the thing. WE are not running anyone, or anything. These people chose to run of their own volition. And it is up to each one of us, on our own, whether we choose to support them and which ones we choose to support. Surely, you are not suggesting that the mob decide for all of us, are you?
    I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=pB5JgzBVHN0

    The Property Basis of Rights

  10. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    But, you see, that's the thing. WE are not running anyone, or anything. These people chose to run of their own volition. And it is up to each one of us, on our own, whether we choose to support them and which ones we choose to support. Surely, you are not suggesting that the mob decide for all of us, are you?
    Besides that, fact is Kokesh has the ability to motivate and get people involved that might not care to about Schiff or Rand. The more people we get involved and the more avenues we use, the better. This thread has inspired me to give him another $25.
    Last edited by specsaregood; 08-14-2009 at 12:29 PM.

  11. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    But, you see, that's the thing. WE are not running anyone, or anything. These people chose to run of their own volition. And it is up to each one of us, on our own, whether we choose to support them and which ones we choose to support. Surely, you are not suggesting that the mob decide for all of us, are you?
    No, I said earlier in the this thread each individual person has to decide how to spend their personal resources. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop encouraging people to focus on these 2 races.
    We need immigrants in this country. What we don't need is politicians. Get rid of them! - Peter Schiff

  12. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by No1ButPaul08 View Post
    That doesn't mean I'm going to stop encouraging people to focus on these 2 races.
    That's fine, as long as you don't derail someone else's thread in doing so.
    I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=pB5JgzBVHN0

    The Property Basis of Rights

  13. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Besides that, fact is Kokesh has the ability to motivate and get people involved that might not care to about Schiff or Rand. The more people we get involved and the more avenues we use, the better. This thread has inspired me to give him another $20.
    To a point yes. This doesn't mean he has run for Congress. With this logic with should just have 535 candidates, because hey, the more the better right. It doesn't always work that way. We need to pick our spots. IMO, this fantasy campaign is not one of them.
    We need immigrants in this country. What we don't need is politicians. Get rid of them! - Peter Schiff

  14. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by No1ButPaul08 View Post
    To a point yes. This doesn't mean he has run for Congress. With this logic with should just have 535 candidates, because hey, the more the better right. It doesn't always work that way. We need to pick our spots. IMO, this fantasy campaign is not one of them.
    And at the same time Kokesh already has an existing base of grassroots support seperate from the base of support for Rand and Schiff, due to his anti-war and iraq veterans group work. So he isn't exactly "just anybody" running. He brings his own assets to the movement.

  15. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    And at the same time Kokesh already has an existing base of grassroots support seperate from the base of support for Rand and Schiff, due to his anti-war and iraq veterans group work. So he isn't exactly "just anybody" running. He brings his own assets to the movement.
    QFT!

    Not to mention even Rand admits that he needs to learn a few things from Adam at the end of this video.

    YouTube - Rand Paul & Adam Kokesh Take Over The Interwebs!

  16. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    And at the same time Kokesh already has an existing base of grassroots support seperate from the base of support for Rand and Schiff, due to his anti-war and iraq veterans group work. So he isn't exactly "just anybody" running. He brings his own assets to the movement.
    I have never said otherwise. Just because he brings assets doesn't mean he has to run for Congress. Even HWP has said Adam should drop his run and campaign for Schiff and Rand.

    The way I see, by Kokesh running for Congress, he isn't bringing assets to the movement, he's taking from them. He's going to spend a bunch of money running an impossible campaign. Think of the net positives he could bring campaigning for these two. Instead, he'll be off in NM running a pointless campaign.
    We need immigrants in this country. What we don't need is politicians. Get rid of them! - Peter Schiff

  17. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClayTrainor View Post
    Not to mention even Rand admits that he needs to learn a few things from Adam at the end of this video.
    If every $25 bucks I donate to his campaign pays the gas for him to get to a public speaking event and he is able to inspire or wake-up just a few more people, I consider it money well spent. I think he may surprise in this election, long-shot or not;but I don't know much about his strategy. Esp. with the freedom's phoenix guys obviously helping him out.

  18. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by No1ButPaul08 View Post
    He's going to spend a bunch of money running an impossible campaign.
    For your point to have any relevance, you must first demonstrate that that money he will be spending directly negatively affects Rand or Schiff's fundraising. I'm not convinced it will. In fact, if he is able to inspire and bring more people INTO our movement, those new members may donate to Rand or Schiff whereas they might not have without his campaign.

    I'll admit it, I see kokesh's campaign as primarily educational. But so was Ron Paul's own campaign and that "educational campaign" worked wonders.

  19. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by No1ButPaul08 View Post
    Even HWP has said Adam should drop his run and campaign for Schiff and Rand.
    Yeah, there is a poster we should all rally behind

    Quote Originally Posted by No1ButPaul08 View Post
    The way I see, by Kokesh running for Congress, he isn't bringing assets to the movement, he's taking from them. He's going to spend a bunch of money running an impossible campaign. Think of the net positives he could bring campaigning for these two. Instead, he'll be off in NM running a pointless campaign.
    And what is it exactly you are doing, aside from bitching online about what someone else is doing to fight for liberty.

    He is not doing it because it is a "vanity campaign" or because it is a "fantasy"

    He is doing it because he is passionate about freedom; something a few of you could learn a lesson about

  20. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    For your point to have any relevance, you must first demonstrate that that money he will be spending directly negatively affects Rand or Schiff's fundraising. I'm not convinced it will. In fact, if he is able to inspire and bring more people INTO our movement, those new members may donate to Rand or Schiff whereas they might not have without his campaign.
    A fair point, however, Kokesh doesn't have to run for Congress to bring people into this movement.

    I'll admit it, I see kokesh's campaign as primarily educational. But so was Ron Paul's own campaign and that "educational campaign" worked wonders.
    Yes, but RP was in a Presidential race, much different that a Congressional race. Adam would do just as well traveling KY and CT and educating the people of those states.
    We need immigrants in this country. What we don't need is politicians. Get rid of them! - Peter Schiff

  21. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by No1ButPaul08 View Post
    A fair point, however, Kokesh doesn't have to run for Congress to bring people into this movement.
    Not really. Running for congress gets him access to the media, access to political events, access to debates, all kinds of events that a general issue spokesman does not get access to or does not get the opportunity to speak at. You think the GOP is going to invite him to speak at their events as simply an anti-war guy? I highly doubt it. however as a Republican candidate, they can't really refuse him access.

    Quote Originally Posted by No1ButPaul08 View Post
    Yes, but RP was in a Presidential race, much different that a Congressional race. Adam would do just as well traveling KY and CT and educating the people of those states.
    You state this as a fact; but have no way of backing it up. I think Schiff and Rand will do just fine educating and waking people up in those states, I don't see how he would be much of an asset at all campaiging in KY or CT. Him campaigning in NM however reaches a whole new audience. Also see my comment above.
    Last edited by specsaregood; 08-14-2009 at 01:12 PM.

  22. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by No1ButPaul08 View Post
    Yes, but RP was in a Presidential race, much different that a Congressional race. Adam would do just as well traveling KY and CT and educating the people of those states.
    Here you are grasping at straws. You have no clue what kind of outreach and response are going on here. You have no idea of where he would be more effective. And you have no clue of the actual demographics here. The fact remains that until we have many more candidates, it is silly to be culling the herd and pitting our candidate against one another. In fact it is detrimental to the movement as a whole. You find some more candidates with more national recognition and a "better chance" and then let the market decide. Till then you are just causing trouble...

    From the guidelines:

    + If you are to be critical of another users ideas or message please do so in a respectful manner. It is possible to discuss your points as to why you feel the way you do, ideally you should include alternate suggestions or acknowledge you have none.

    Finally, If you think I will be content with running only 2 federal races, you don't know me. I have no illusions that this campaign will be a cakewalk, but we have tyrants scrambling, we are converting neo-cons, and plan on making Lujan work very hard to retain his seat. That drain on the DNC resources will help other candidates as well. I hope to see 10 federal races this cycle. Until I see at least 10 decent candidates I will question anyone pitting us against ourselves
    Don't let others get you down. Not naysayers, not pretenders, not appeasers, not opportunists; none of em.

    What others do pales beside what YOU do.

    Press on! - The r3VOLution continues...

    "Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."

    ~ C.Coolidge

  23. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronpaulhawaii View Post
    Reality has trumped idealism and Adam will be filing tax forms, this may disappoint some but Adam is running a race to win. What you are all witnessing is his transition from activist to candidate. From my understanding he has not made enough to "owe" anything...

    HTH...
    Good, now maybe people will shut up about the tax BS. As far as I can see that was the only legitimate complaint against him.

  24. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by He Who Pawns View Post
    Lol, Matt. What does it matter if Kokesh can win a non-existent primary, if he has ZERO chance of winning in the general? Why don't you google the demographics of that district, and then tell us how Kokesh is going to have even a 1% chance of winning. This whole "campaign" is nothing but an adventure in vanity by Kokesh, at the expense of our movement overall.

    And again, even if hell froze over, and somehow Kokesh had even a 5% chance of winning, Democrats would only need to make one call to the IRS to get him thrown into jail, so this whole thing his a joke.

    Our efforts should be concentrated on Rand and Peter, not this clown.
    Dr. Paul has encouraged everyone to run for office if memory serves. We should welcome and encourage all voices of freedom. I don't see how anyone speaking out about a liberty platform can hurt our movement, unless they divert strategic resources unwisely. There are other ways to be supportive besides money bombs.

  25. #84

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    I think HWP has the hots for Kokesh, and calling everyone gay for supporting was just him projecting. One can only assume he's lurking on here, so HWP, this is for you:

    YouTube - Gang Of Four - I Love A Man In Uniform
    Don't taze me bro. Don't touch my junk. Don't tread on me.

    Maybe you need a friend not into politics... http://saveadogrescue.com/ http://www.petfinder.com/pet-search?shelter_id=TX1472

  26. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronpaulhawaii View Post
    Temp till past the 2010 cycle...
    It is past the 2010 cycle, why is 'He Who Pawns' still banned? Was one of the forums more entertaining posters. The recent RT firing of Kokesh, and Kokesh's subsequent comments on Benton, were poorer here for the lack of HWP's presence.
    "My son Rand is doing better work in Congress than I did." -Ron Paul

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