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Thread: Free Markets with no control = the law of the jungle.

  1. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wadesc View Post
    Fractional reserve lending without leverage limits = systematic fraud.

    THE ONLY WAY FRL can theoretically work is if it is kept under control through "regulation", so in a sense, "regulation" IS what is needed.
    Regulation only to prevent fraud and keep the books honest? Agreed

    Yet that word is somewhat intellectually dishonest since so much stuff that is called "regulation" is completely irrelevant because it doesnt address the core problems and is really just corporatist nonsense.
    Yes, and that's not the only word misused or misunderstood that way.


    Gold Standard aside.

    As a matter of fact, a gold standard (with 1:1 reserve ratio) would require much more "regulation" since you would have to make sure that each bank isnt lying about their balance sheets, and maintaining that standard would be so important.
    How many people are willing to admit that?

    They'd argue though, that the regulation would be no more than a quick check list, either you have it or you don't, which sounds nice as there's no room for if/and/but, BUT it means banks will open their vaults so much more often that they're vulnerable to theft and robbery.

    (Yep, banks are either in secret and safe to fraud others, or exposed and ready to rob, they can't win both)

    Just wanted to chime in, because so many libertarians tend to say we need "deregulation" as opposed to smart regulation. "Deregulation" in the last 20 years, especially the removal of leverage limits at banks really was what let fractional reserve lending go out of control, and much of it was orchestrated straight from the Fed itself.
    Parrot says : so we get rid of the fed! deregulate but keep leverage limits, leverage limits is just a ceiling against fraud!

    there are several levels of regulation, not all are the same and not all work in the same manner. Nobody believes in fraud, but some believe fraud is a type of freedom.

    So in essence, what we have is the regulation that mattered; glass-steagall, leverage ratios, etc. stripped away in the name of the free market, and BS regulation that doesnt do anything but clutter the books or provide crony capitalist government interference pushed as the answer for all of our woes over the years.

    In the presence of out of control fractional reserve lending, all this talk about deregulation or regulation and such is irrelevant if the fundamentals are not kept intact.
    agreed, regulation and deregulation are meaningless unless we understand the beast of the money supply.


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  3. #112

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    Apparently, some people have a hard time understanding that free markets come complete with innumerable, built-in controls. And, thos controls function much better, and more reliably than the much touted "checks and balances" in the CONstitution.
    Chris

    "Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are." — Benjamin Franklin

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    I was a minarchist, but I ran out of excuses.

  4. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Apparently, some people have a hard time understanding that free markets come complete with innumerable, built-in controls. And, thos controls function much better, and more reliably than the much touted "checks and balances" in the CONstitution.
    apparently, some people have a problem seeing that free markets as far as roads and lands haven't existed so until it happens, it's all perfect on paper.

    work better than the Constitution? HELL YES
    good enough? fool proof? NO.

  5. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Optatron View Post
    apparently, some people have a problem seeing that free markets as far as roads and lands haven't existed so until it happens, it's all perfect on paper.

    work better than the Constitution? HELL YES
    good enough? fool proof? NO.
    All that needs to be seen is history.

    Where intervention into markets is minimized, innovation, growth, and prosperity will be found.

    Where intervention is maximized, waste, stagnation, or worse will thrive.
    regulations that protect property, contracts, liberty, and the individual

    I'm a moderator, and I'm glad to help. But I'm an individual -- my words come from me. Any idiocy within should reflect on me, not Ron Paul, and not Ron Paul Forums.

  6. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Apparently, some people have a hard time understanding that free markets come complete with innumerable, built-in controls. And, thos controls function much better, and more reliably than the much touted "checks and balances" in the CONstitution.
    Evaluation of the status quo is no condemnation of the Constitution -- to the extent that the Constitution has not been followed.
    Last edited by nayjevin; 06-30-2009 at 12:28 AM.
    regulations that protect property, contracts, liberty, and the individual

    I'm a moderator, and I'm glad to help. But I'm an individual -- my words come from me. Any idiocy within should reflect on me, not Ron Paul, and not Ron Paul Forums.

  7. #116

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    Everybody see if you can guess which question Optatron didn't respond to.

    Then ask yourselves.. "Why?"

    “I will be as harsh as truth, and uncompromising as justice... I am in earnest, I will not equivocate, I will not excuse, I will not retreat a single inch, and I will be heard.” ~ William Lloyd Garrison

    Quote Originally Posted by TGGRV View Post
    Conza, why do you even bother? lol.
    Worthy Threads:
    Ignore: Xerographica, newbitech, Travlyr

  8. #117

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    Conza, why do you even bother? lol.

    I'm getting some popcorn for this one.

  9. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by TGGRV View Post
    Conza, why do you even bother? lol.
    A very good question.

    “Truth is not only violated by falsehood; it may be equally outraged by silence.”
    ~ Henri Frederic Amiel

    Unfortunately.. I love justice, and the truth too much...

    Or I'm too stupid / stubborn / unwise / unable to turn away.
    “I will be as harsh as truth, and uncompromising as justice... I am in earnest, I will not equivocate, I will not excuse, I will not retreat a single inch, and I will be heard.” ~ William Lloyd Garrison

    Quote Originally Posted by TGGRV View Post
    Conza, why do you even bother? lol.
    Worthy Threads:
    Ignore: Xerographica, newbitech, Travlyr

  10. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conza88 View Post
    A very good question.

    “Truth is not only violated by falsehood; it may be equally outraged by silence.”
    ~ Henri Frederic Amiel

    Unfortunately.. I love justice, and the truth too much...

    Or I'm too stupid / stubborn / unwise / unable to turn away.
    your version of not turning away for justice and truth is to post on a message board? Man do we owe you some medals!

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