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Thread: Chabad rabbi: Jews should kill Arab men, women and children (and cattle) during war

  1. #1

    Exclamation Chabad rabbi: Jews should kill Arab men, women and children (and cattle) during war

    Wonder how he would feel if the exact same approach were used against israel?


    www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1091469.html

    "The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle)," Friedman wrote in response to the question posed by Moment Magazine for its "Ask the Rabbis" feature. Advertisement


    Friedman argued that if Israel followed this wisdom, there would be "no civilian casualties, no children in the line of fire, no false sense of righteousness, in fact, no war."

    "I don't believe in Western morality," he wrote. "Living by Torah values will make us a light unto the nations who suffer defeat because of a disastrous morality of human invention."



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  3. #2
    Oh great --- wanton destruction of humans --- for a second I thought I was reading Bin Laden
    "Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister


  4. #3
    1 Samuel 15:3

  5. #4
    Military policy based on Fairy Tales.




    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    1 Samuel 15:3

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ChooseLiberty View Post
    Military policy based on Fairy Tales.
    It may be a fairy tale to you but to them it is what is written in the scriptures.

    I was just pointing out where he got that from.

  7. #6
    Interesting that he calls it "The Jewish Way" also

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ChooseLiberty View Post
    Wonder how he would feel if the exact same approach were used against israel?


    www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1091469.html

    "The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle)," Friedman wrote in response to the question posed by Moment Magazine for its "Ask the Rabbis" feature. Advertisement


    Friedman argued that if Israel followed this wisdom, there would be "no civilian casualties, no children in the line of fire, no false sense of righteousness, in fact, no war."

    "I don't believe in Western morality," he wrote. "Living by Torah values will make us a light unto the nations who suffer defeat because of a disastrous morality of human invention."
    There is no love lost between the hareidim and far-left wing rags such as Haaretz. I wouldn't be surprised if Friedman was completely misquoted, taken out of context. I've read Friedman's works, so I can say, he's not the Jewish version of the Taliban. It surprises me that Libertarians, who are so aware of how the MSM twists conservative views in America, can be so credulous where the MSM in Israel is concerned.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ElyaKatz View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if Friedman was completely misquoted, taken out of context.
    10 seconds of googling would lead you to discover that it's a direct quote: "The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle)."
    http://momentmagazine.wordpress.com/...sh-fanaticism/
    http://www.momentmag.com/Exclusive/2...sk_Rabbis.html



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  11. #9
    Welcome to fighting to win.

    When you are commiting genocide the worst mistake you can make is to be half-hearted about it.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't a thing
    Prostitution is legal
    We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  12. #10
    So every war should be a nuclear war.

    israel is like a rabid dog and the rabid psychotic dog wants to be a light to the nations based on some fairy tales made up a few thousand years ago. That's f*cked up.

    Welcome to nuclear winter courtesy of the hebrew fairy tales.

    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    Welcome to fighting to win.

    When you are commiting genocide the worst mistake you can make is to be half-hearted about it.

  13. #11

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ChooseLiberty View Post
    So every war should be a nuclear war.

    israel is like a rabid dog and the rabid psychotic dog wants to be a light to the nations based on some fairy tales made up a few thousand years ago. That's f*cked up.

    Welcome to nuclear winter courtesy of the hebrew fairy tales.
    You don't need nukes to wipe someone out. And if you are fighting for land then you don't win if its all radioactive.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't a thing
    Prostitution is legal
    We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  15. #13
    That monkey Peikoff is obviously insane, trying to conjure up fear where none should exist.

    Just confirms my opinion of Ayn Rand - what a joke.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kludge View Post

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by iddo View Post
    10 seconds of googling would lead you to discover that it's a direct quote: "The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle)."
    http://momentmagazine.wordpress.com/...sh-fanaticism/
    http://www.momentmag.com/Exclusive/2...sk_Rabbis.html
    According to who? I can speak to Rabbi Friedman myself and find out exactly what he said. You are convinced that his "backpedaling" is disengenous, but reporters are all honest? What planet do you live on?

    Religious people are vilified all the time, lied about, none more than religious Jews, the more religious, the more they are vilified and lied about. I just don't buy it.

    Arabs say this sort of thing about Jews all the time. And they make it clear, there is no misunderstanding. They mean it. Where's the indignation when that happens??
    Last edited by ElyaKatz; 06-10-2009 at 12:07 AM.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ChooseLiberty View Post
    So every war should be a nuclear war.

    israel is like a rabid dog and the rabid psychotic dog wants to be a light to the nations based on some fairy tales made up a few thousand years ago. That's f*cked up.

    Welcome to nuclear winter courtesy of the hebrew fairy tales.
    The nuclear winter is due to Russia, China and France, to name a few, feeding Iran nuclear technology at a very handsome profit, and to Ahmadinejad wanting to bring about the return of the Mahdi, the Shiite "messiah" who fell down a well 1000 years ago. He believes that if he brings the world to the brink of destruction, the "mahdi" will magically appear and all mankind will embrace the one true "Allah"... yemach sh'mo, spit, spit, spit.

    Israel simply wants to survive all that insanity.

    Update: Just checked Rabbi Friedman's site. In his words:


    Rabbi Manis Friedman clarifies comments in Moment Magazine

    I would like to clarify the answer published in my name in last month's issue of Moment Magazine.

    First of all, the opinions published in my name are solely my own, and do not represent the official policy of any Jewish movement or organization.

    Additionally, my answer, as written, is misleading.

    It is obvious, I thought, that any neighbor of the Jewish people should be treated, as the Torah commands us, with respect and compassion. Fundamental to the Jewish faith is the concept that every human being was created in the image of G-d, and our sages instruct us to support the non-Jewish poor along with the poor of our own brethren.

    The sub-question I chose to address instead is: how should we act in time of war, when our neighbors attack us, using their women, children and religious holy places as shields. I attempted to briefly address some of the ethical issues related to forcing the military to withhold fire from certain people and places, at the unbearable cost of widespread bloodshed (on both sides!) -- when one’s own family and nation is mercilessly targeted from those very people and places.

    Furthermore, some of the words I used in my brief comment were irresponsible, and I look forward to further clarifying them in a future issue.

    I apologize for any misunderstanding my words created.

    -- Rabbi Manis Friedman


    Link: It's Good to Know

    If you're determined to think the worst of the man, have at it. I prefer to think the best of people wherever possible. R' Manis Friedman has proven himself to be an ethical, caring man his entire life, as is his entire family. He has earned enough goodwill capital that this statement deserves to be taken at face value.
    Last edited by ElyaKatz; 06-10-2009 at 12:31 AM.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ElyaKatz View Post
    According to who? I can speak to Rabbi Friedman myself and find out exactly what he said.
    What are you talking about? We're quoting his words, verbatim, it's what he wrote in that "Ask the Rabbis" link (in the bottom of the page).



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ChooseLiberty View Post
    Just confirms my opinion of Ayn Rand - what a joke.
    Ayn Rand had similar collectivist opinions, like that yoyo Leonard Peikoff, about mass-murder of innocent people: "If we go to war with Russia, I hope the "innocent" are destroyed along with the guilty. There aren't many innocent people there -- those who do exist are not in the big cities, but mainly in concentration camps." (link)

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by iddo View Post
    What are you talking about? We're quoting his words, verbatim, it's what he wrote in that "Ask the Rabbis" link (in the bottom of the page).
    And the link to his site, where Rabbi Friedman which includes the context in which he was speaking is below that alleged quote. Do you really believe the MSM reports fairly all the time? Or do you only take issue with them when what they report makes your ideology look bad?

    I know better. I know the liberal press is always looking for ways to make a strongly pro-Israel rabbi look bad. They play hardball in Israel...all sides, much moreso that in the US. The Left will think nothing of lying. They do it here. Why do you think the Left in Israel would be so angelic?

    So, you don't believe me. Seems there are a lot of people here who are determined to believe the worst of Jews, especially religious Jews, but really, there is no big distinction is there? It's so easy to believe the worst, much easier than cutting some slack. Be careful, because if you don't give people a break, why should anyone give you a break?? Rabbi Friedman has said what he meant. If you don't believe him...your problem, not his, and not mine. He didn't "accidentally" let the cat out of the bag and then backpedal. He comes from an extremely ethical world, and actually thought his listeners understood some basic assumptions, that they understood the context, because that context actually happens in Israel.
    Last edited by ElyaKatz; 06-10-2009 at 12:47 AM.

  22. #19
    I have no idea what you're babbling about. I linked to his full letter, where he writes: "The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle)."
    Do you agree with the Rabbi and the Ayn Rand yoyos that the only moral way to fight is to kill children? And that it's the Jewish way?
    You said that maybe he was "completely misquoted" and that you can speak to Rabbi Friedman yourself and find out exactly what he said. Do you plan to ask him whether someone fabricated the words in his letter? Or what else you planned to ask him?

  23. #20
    Its one way to avoid a cycle of violence.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't a thing
    Prostitution is legal
    We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  24. #21
    Just when I thought I could go 4 hours without seeing another holy war thread, here we go again.

    I'll reiterate: I'm getting really tired of this bull$#@!.
    Maxed out to ALL of Ron Paul's campaigns.

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    Organize, Arm, Equip, and Train as a Militia !


  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    Its one way to avoid a cycle of violence.
    Right. If Hitler had his way and killed all the Jews, we wouldn't have this cycle of violence in Israel now. And if Hitler expanded to North America and killed all the Americans, we wouldn't have the genocide in Iraq by economic sanctions and invasion, and the cycle of violence in Afghanistan.
    Nice of you to say that it's one way. Note that the cycle of violence in Vietnam was avoided by using another way.

  26. #23
    I still don't know why they haven't shut the Gaza strip down and forced Hamas to find a new home. Gaza is the size of a postage stamp and would make a nice resort community if you got rid of the trash.
    Last edited by Objectivist; 06-10-2009 at 03:05 AM.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by iddo View Post
    I have no idea what you're babbling about. I linked to his full letter, where he writes: "The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle)."
    Do you agree with the Rabbi and the Ayn Rand yoyos that the only moral way to fight is to kill children? And that it's the Jewish way?
    You said that maybe he was "completely misquoted" and that you can speak to Rabbi Friedman yourself and find out exactly what he said. Do you plan to ask him whether someone fabricated the words in his letter? Or what else you planned to ask him?
    Read the entire article at the link you provided. It's right at the bottom of the Moment link.... I also gave the same link, which is found at R' Friedman's site.
    Then you'll know what I'm referring to. If you choose to believe liberal trash talk, instead of what the good Rabbi says, that's your business.

    If American's were faced with the same conditions that R' Friedman described at the Moment link on the bottom of the page. In addition the Moment link you provided, the link to the Rabbi's website that I provided, and the entire quotation where he clarifies what was clearly taken out of context...where is the confusion? And why do you find it necessary to use denigrating terms when discussing my posts, such as "babbling"? Can you not discuss a difference of opinion without insulting your opponent?

    Funny...I thought Libertarians were the ultimate conservatives, but here is one...buying into what the liberal press says...taking it hook, line and sinker. I thought for sure a site that promoted Ron Paul would be full of folks who are capable of critical thinking.
    Last edited by ElyaKatz; 06-10-2009 at 04:15 AM.



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  29. #25
    No, it wasnt taken out of context, the only context was them asking him a question. He just made a response after the article sparked controversy. And Moment is a Jewish life and culture magazine, if you think it is liberal trash take it up with them.

    Why do you feel you need to defend such vile talk and thoughts? If that same line was spoken by an Arab he would be on every news show portrayed as the next Hitler or Bin Laden.

  30. #26
    Apologies for using the word "babbling", I used it before in a different discussion and a Moderator edited it out (I take this word to mean someone who is talking a lot without saying anything meaningful, but I guess the common interpretation is more negative than what I considered it to be).
    I despise the liberal media as much as anybody, but I failed to understand why the liberal media is supposed to be at fault here, can you explain?
    I assume that he wouldn't write something that he didn't believe in (not sure why he says that it was irresponsible), that the only moral way to fight is to wipe out all the children along with everyone else. It's consist with what his god told him about wiping out the Amalekites because they got in his people's way when they were trying to cross the desert. Do you also agree that it's the only moral way to fight?

  31. #27
    Are you the new Megaphone delegate to the RP forums?

    At least you seem to be trying to make some arguments rather than screeching "ANTY SEEEEMITE" incessantly like the last delegate - poor slow Benny.

    He never understood that screeching "ANTY SEEEEMITE" is not an argument.

    So Friedman tries to conjure up some nice thoughts in his "correction" and yet israel is still chopping down palestinian olive trees on the west bank and murdering babies in the Gaza. To the casual observer this appears to be yet more bullsh*t.


    Quote Originally Posted by ElyaKatz View Post
    Read the entire article at the link you provided. It's right at the bottom of the Moment link.... I also gave the same link, which is found at R' Friedman's site.
    Then you'll know what I'm referring to. If you choose to believe liberal trash talk, instead of what the good Rabbi says, that's your business.

    If American's were faced with the same conditions that R' Friedman described at the Moment link on the bottom of the page. In addition the Moment link you provided, the link to the Rabbi's website that I provided, and the entire quotation where he clarifies what was clearly taken out of context...where is the confusion? And why do you find it necessary to use denigrating terms when discussing my posts, such as "babbling"? Can you not discuss a difference of opinion without insulting your opponent?

    Funny...I thought Libertarians were the ultimate conservatives, but here is one...buying into what the liberal press says...taking it hook, line and sinker. I thought for sure a site that promoted Ron Paul would be full of folks who are capable of critical thinking.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by ChooseLiberty View Post
    Are you the new Megaphone delegate to the RP forums?

    At least you seem to be trying to make some arguments rather than screeching "ANTY SEEEEMITE" incessantly like the last delegate - poor slow Benny.

    He never understood that screeching "ANTY SEEEEMITE" is not an argument.

    So Friedman tries to conjure up some nice thoughts in his "correction" and yet israel is still chopping down palestinian olive trees on the west bank and murdering babies in the Gaza. To the casual observer this appears to be yet more bullsh*t.
    I think so, 50 posts, every one having to do with Israel. That seems to be their number 1 concern, and where their loyalty lies.

  33. #29
    Michael Scheuer (sp?) essentially believes the same thing is true for America. If we fight a war we should fight it with everything we have, without regard for civilian casualty.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by brandonyates View Post
    Michael Scheuer (sp?) essentially believes the same thing is true for America. If we fight a war we should fight it with everything we have, without regard for civilian casualty.
    Poop on Sheuer if he thinks like that.
    This is for the Rabbi

    "The moving finger writesand having writ, moves on:
    Nor all thy piety nor wit shall lure it back to cancel half a line
    Nor all the tears wash out a word of it"
    Omar Khayyam

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