New Documentary: THE SECRET OF OZ

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YouTube - The Secret of Oz - beta 2.0. See www.secretofoz.com for details

[GeorgiaAvenger]

I have decided to watch this now.

[Paul Or Nothing II]

I watched the preview and went to the site www.SecretOfOz.com. Here is a quote from the site:

So what do you guys think of this? There has been a huge push lately for people to start investing in gold, especially on this forum. Are we all being duped?

How can they "manipulate" it. That scumbag keep saying "they'd manipulate it" but doesn't say HOW?

Right, and I agree that the giving politicians the power to make money instead of bankers is not the solution. Personally, I believe private competing currencies is the solution. But don't you worry that if the U.S. went to a gold standard, the bankers could control the supply of gold, and therefore, the wealth of the people?

Yes, absolutely, bankers could increase the gold's supply by producing more of it through their droppings

Again, HOW?

How about 50/50 gold/oil? Gold because it is money and oil because it is such an essential commodity for modern society.

How about letting the people/market choose?

I like Ron Paul's idea of having competing currencies.. that way of they start to manipulate one form of currency people can simply move to another. The rich banksters will always try to play games, but it is important to set them back however and whenever possible, because the longer they remain in the control the more wealth and liberty they are able to steal from society.

Again, HOW? Are they magicians?

Money Masters is a leftist monetarist anti-fed documentary.

The people there don't understand Austrian economics, or the case for gold.

Whenever someone brings up Money Masters at Mises.org, they get laughed at.
http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/3868.aspx

+1

Fricking commies just don't give up, he just took the knowledge discovered byAustrian Economics about understanding of FRB & turned it around as if it was some "secret" expose

Well, there is evidence that moneyed interests have been able to manipulate the gold supply for their ends, which is why I think that government should not be mandating any sort of currency. People should be able to trade whatever they want...however, I see no problem with the government issuing gold or silver as tender for tax payment purposes, etc..

I agree government shouldn't mandate any currency (nor should they issue any) but how would "moneyed interests" "manipulate" gold supply? HOW?

I don't really see how they are leftist just cause they don't support the gold standard.. they do a great job calling out the Fed and proving how the banking system steals wealth from individuals and society.

It's not about the lack of support for gold-standard but rather their support for government-issued toilet-paper; what he's proposing is nothing new, here's one of the 10 planks on Communist Manifesto : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_manifesto

5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

Just because he "exposes" Fed doesn't mean sh!t if he lies about things to mislead his viewers; it's like Republicans "exposing" Democrats & vice versa for Democrats but that doesn't mean that either one is any good.

That's why it is important to follow the rest of the Constitution, too. There is no reason to have government pay interest on money it is spending on behalf of other people. The moral hazard has already been removed because it isn't their money.

Please, stop buying into Bill SHILL's lies without doing your proper research. The interest "paid" by Treasury is handed BACK to the Treasury as Fed "profits" which often EXCEEDS the interest "paid" - the Fed's "profits" include interest "paid" by Treasury + interest earned on loans to other banks & institutions, etc

Bill SHILL doesn't even understand such a BASIC thing about Fed (or PRETENDING not to) & tells lies to the viewers that "oh, Government/Treasury 'pays' interest to the Fed"
This lie has been dealt with, right on this forum, in several threads, in the last few days, you may check'em out if you want. Even a simple Wikisearch would have revealed it in it's introductory section of the Federal Reserve System - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System
You can check out advanced sources be it Fed's website, Treasury or whatever (NOT conspiracy websites), the fact is that Bill SHILL is a liar & wants

So henceforth if you want to send a video to someone to expose the current monetary system then I'd highly recommend using the following video, it's done by real "Austrians" unlike some SHILL who borrows nearly all his knowledge from Austrian Economics & then perverts to mislead the masses

Most of the people on this forum (as well as Ron Paul) do not believe the above, but I tend to agree. Historical evidence that the amount of gold (and other metals) in circulation can and has been manipulated seems to be pretty easy to come by nor is it hard to believe that such events can and have occurred.

Again, HOW do they "manipulate" it?

You can manipulate it so that gold is more valuable by hoarding it, but that doesn't really harm the economy (save to the extent that the government has high taxes in order to gather their hoard of gold). You can't manipulate it such that there is more gold than there actually is, or at least, not normally. The US had some success in doing this up until 1971. If you use circulating gold coins, then there is no way to manipulate the price down. All you can do is restrict supply, which makes those who are holding gold richer (which I think is what that quote was referring to).

However, that was really only the case with mercantilist economies. In a free economy, even that type of manipulation is difficult. When people hoard gold, they don't get any real economic benefit, unless they create their hoard when there was a lot of gold, and spend it when there is little, in which case it's a good thing because that creates a speculative market which would help to regulate the price of gold. If there is only one hoard, the owner of the hoard gets no benefit, because each piece of gold he draws out of the economy is more expensive than the last, while each piece he spends, buys less than the last--it ends up being a zero sum game. By collaborating with rich people, it could enrich a few at the expense of the many, though that expense is the result of the taxation required to create the hoard rather than the change in the value of gold (which on the whole is always neutral, all other things being even).

The only way I could see a benefit would be for an entity to hoard gold and wait for a large increase in population, which would mean that the supply of gold per person has gone down, meaning they can purchase more labor with it than they could have had they spent it right away, but that is just one of the benefits of saving. The only real crime is the taxation.

Why would you "hoard" gold if you could earn interest on it by depositing it & lending it out? And if someone still wants to "hoard" then that's their property-right

+1 for the rest of the comment

Ya this makes me a bit skeptical of their lack of faith in the gold standard.. but damn, The Money Masters spends so much time going through the history of banking that it's still really worth the watch anyway.

Again, PLEASE DO NOT use Money Masters or Secret of oz or any other BS floating out there on youtube (there's a glut of "expose" videos on youtube which DON'T HAVE A CLUE), such videos will only push people away from not only sound money but away from RON PAUL because he's the strongest advocate of it

They probably just don't understand where the damage was coming from, or how the elites were actually getting rich. You can't really manipulate gold to make yourself wealthy without luck/insight (free market speculation), or corruption and the power to tax (as was the case when gold was manipulated, thus the quote by Jefferson about inflation and deflation leaving your children penniless).

+1 for the rest of the comment but......

Please refrain from using that quote about Jefferson because it's FAKE because the word "deflation" was not in use during his time
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_jefferson
You can check other advanced sources if you want.

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Ok, here's how they used to "manipulate", which wasn't "manipulation" but rather FRAUD (fractional-reserve-banking) & government not prosecuting fraud is fault of the government, NOT of the gold-standard

OK so let's say interest-rate is 5% then you & I can only earn 5 oz on every 100 oz that we lend BUT due to fractional-banking, banks could earn 10 times (10% reserves) or 20 times (on 5% reserves) of that, that is, 50-100 oz on EVERY 100 oz they had, & that would radically expand their ability to attract gold BUT again, the problem is NOT gold but rather the fractional-reserve FRAUD & governments in the past have many times come to their rescue by allowing them to "suspend payment of specie" (allowing banks to NOT pay back their customers in gold, on demand) as well as through "corporate personhood" which LIMITS their liabilities to the extent of the company's liability, which should NOT be the case at all as on the free-market, INDIVIDUALS are held responsible (NOT fictional entities like "company") so if they can't pay back their customers then their PERSONAL ASSETS will be seized to pay it off but government has protected them from this through laws of "corporate personhood"

Similar thing with the government-controlled gold-standard that was between 1933-1971, Americans weren't allowed to turn in their dollars to the Treasury in return for gold/silver, that was specifically because so that government could creating more dollars than they had in gold; if the citizens could return them for gold then they would as government started inflating & they'd see the price of gold move higher in dollar-terms than the set peg (the peg was 1 oz = $35 during this period, it was previously 1 oz= $20 before FDR stole Americans' gold & handed them toilet-paper in return)

I'd definitely NOT want government to issue ANY currency, because government is a coercive monopoly & sooner or later they'll get greedy enough to manipulate it & then shove down people's throats so it's better to have a complete "separation of money & State".
Fractional-banking (non-contractual) should be treated for what it is - fraud, & "corporate personhood" should be gotten rid of so that would be limit chances of banks engaging in fractional-banking in secret because as soon as they do, it would be reflected the value of the currency as it always does & people will want to "cash in" those notes at face-value (for example, their 10-gram note would lose value to 9 or 8 grams or whatever depending on how much they're inflating) & without "corporate personhood", they'd have to repay their customers, one way or another, since if the company's assets aren't enough to pay them of then those running the bank/company would have to give up their PERSONAL PROPERTY to pay them off.

[Steven Douglas]

Why would you "hoard" gold if you could earn interest on it by depositing it & lending it out? And if someone still wants to "hoard" then that's their property-right

It's even better than that. Putting anything into circulation places downward pressure on the value of all like things in circulation. If you are holder of anything of value, the best thing you could hope for is that others would "hoard" it - take it out of circulation completely.

Savers/hoarders are the spenders' best friend.

There are two types of thinkers who consider hoarding as a necessarily bad thing, even generally speaking: 1) idiots who think only in terms of quantity of supply, while ignoring relative value due to scarcity, and 2) Scoundrels and Ponzi schemers, like FDR and banksters, who use the term "hoarder" as an epithet to vilify anyone who threatens to expose the scam - namely, those who exercise their property rights (as in the case of a bank run) - people who don't trust promises and actually want take possession of what is rightfully theirs.

Let me make it clear to you that the banks will take care of all needs except of course the hysterical demands of hoarders—and it is my belief that hoarding during the past week has become an exceedingly unfashionable pastime in every part of our nation. - Franklin Roosevelt, Fireside "Bank Holiday" Chat

That was the second type: the scoundrel who spoke as a champion and defender of Ponzi embezzlers, vilifying ordinary people in the exercise of their rights.