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Thread: Constitutional Convention Backers Want to Hijack the Tea Party Movement

  1. #1

    Default Constitutional Convention Backers Want to Hijack the Tea Party Movement

    http://www.jbs.org/index.php/freedom-campaign/4820

    Constitutional Convention Backers Want to Hijack the Tea Party Movement


    Written by Larry Greenley
    Thursday, 30 April 2009

    As most of you already know, the Tax Day Tea Parties were a huge success in terms of number of gatherings (over 850) and total numbers participating (over 1 million according to some sources). From what I observed both in person at our Appleton, Wisconsin Tax Day Tea Party and online at various websites, the Tax Day Tea Parties were, for the most part, a genuine grassroots phenomenon. Just the diversity of signs showed that no one person or organization had planned the messages on the highly individualistic signs.

    This spontaneous, grassroots nature of the tea party rallies was the most encouraging aspect of them. At last a broad cross-section of America had had enough with fiscal irresponsibility and excessive, inflationary spending, not to mention exorbitantly high taxes, and felt compelled to gather together in public places to protest out-of-control state and federal governments and the legislators of both parties who brought this problem about in the first place.

    Nonetheless, less than two weeks after the tax day rallies, backers of a very dangerous threat to our Constitution have surfaced, and are actively working to have their agenda adopted by the Tea Party Movement’s grassroots organizers. This dangerous threat to our Constitution is none other than that perennial temptation, the constitutional convention, also known widely as a con-con.

    A con-con would be convened by Congress in accordance with Article V of the Constitution, if 34 or more state legislatures petition Congress to call such a convention “for proposing amendments.” The dangerous aspect of a con-con is that there’s no way for the state legislatures to ensure that the constitutional convention would restrict itself to consideration of the specific amendment(s) that the state legislatures have based their con-con calls on. Therefore, a constitutional convention could consider and approve a wide range of amendments, never contemplated by the state legislatures who started the whole process. Whichever amendments approved by the constitutional convention that were ratified by three-fourths of the states would become part of the Constitution. Thus, given the huge influence on public opinion exerted by the biased media and political elites, the con-con process could very well result in radical changes in our Constitution which were never intended by the state legislators who called the con-con in the first place.

    Here’s “Beware of Article V,” a video the John Birch Society produced in 1999 to help state legislators to understand the high risk to our Constitution involved in petitioning Congress for a con-con. It’s also valuable for informing concerned citizens about this issue. I highly recommend readers of this article take the 36 minutes required to view it or at the very least sample it.

    YouTube - Beware Article V (part 1 of 4)

    Now back to our story of how enthusiastic backers of a con-con are working to enlist the unsuspecting participants of the Tea Party movement in their very risky con-con project.

    On April 23 the Wall Street Journal published an opinion piece by Professor Randy Barnett of Georgetown University, “The Case for a Federalism Amendment: How the Tea Partiers can make Washington pay attention.” In this article, Barnett correctly observed that the Tenth Amendment “sovereignty resolutions,” under consideration by over half the states this year, are not likely to have the slightest impact on the federal courts. From this reasonable observation, Barnett proceeded to assert that “state legislatures have a real power under the Constitution by which to resist the growth of federal power: They can petition Congress for a convention to propose amendments to the Constitution.”

    Barnett then went on to admit that “An amendments convention is feared because its scope cannot be limited in advance.” However, at this point he advocated a dangerous course. He proposed that the “tea-party enthusiasts” adopt the project of getting his Federalism Amendment added to the Constitution and also adopt his strategy of getting enough state legislatures to apply to Congress to call a constitutional convention, so that Congress becomes scared of the prospect of a con-con and agrees to endorse his amendment and present it to the states for ratification.

    The problem with this strategy is that there’s no way to ensure that a con-con will not actually be convened in the process of this game of “playing chicken” with Congress with the Constitution at stake.

    Next, on April 27 Barnett appeared as a guest on PajamasTV (click on link to view video) with host Michael Patrick Leahy, a leader in the Tea Party Movement. During the four days between his WSJ article of April 23 and his PajamasTV appearance of April 27, Barnett changed his mind about his former strategy of scaring Congress into adopting his amendment with the threat of a con-con. Although he still acknowledges that there is widespread fear of a con-con, and he has some worries about one, he is now convinced that the risks involved with a con-con are worth taking in order to get his 10 amendments presented to the states for ratification. He puts a lot of stock in the requirement that three-fourths of the states are required to ratify whatever amendments might issue from a con-con. He believes this mechanism would surely prevent any truly bad amendment from being ratified.

    Of course, this is the crux of the issue. The John Birch Society along with leading constitutional scholars have consistently maintained over the past few decades that there is no way to control what amendments would be considered and adopted by a constitutional convention, and that the requirement that three-fourths of the states must ratify an amendment is not sufficient protection for the Constitution in this age of widespread ignorance of the Constitution and its role in securing our freedoms.

    During those same four days, Barnett also changed his project from proposing one amendment, the “Federalism Amendment,” with five parts to proposing ten amendments, to be known as “the Bill of Federalism.”

    Michael Patrick Leahy, co-founder of TCOT (Top Conservatives on Twitter) and through his participation in http://taxdayteaparty.com/ an important national organizer of the Tax Day Tea Parties, supports Barnett’s con-con project to the hilt. In his blog for April 25, “The Bill of Federalism: 10 Amendments to be proposed to the States for Ratification,” Leahy stated that Professor Barnett was drafting “The Bill of Federalism,” consisting of ten proposed amendments to the Constitution. Leahy went on to write:


    Upon completion of the final version of The Bill of Federalism, we will encourage selected state legislators to introduce a bill to petition Congress to Convene a Constitutional Convention for the purpose of passing The Bill of Federalism, thereafter sending it to the states for ratification.

    If 2/3 of the states petition Congress to hold a Constitutional Convention, Congress must convene one. Alternatively, Congress may pass The Bill of Federalism on its own, and submit it to the states for ratification.


    By the time of the PajamasTV show on April 27, Barnett and Leahy were in complete agreement on the strategy of working for a con-con to get Barnett’s new list of ten amendments submitted to the states for ratification. Here’s a chilling quote from the Nationwide Tea Party Coalition website (Leahy is a leader of this group) which is working on proposed actions for the July 4th tea parties:


    Here's an action step worth considering: Georgetown Professor of Constitutional Law Randy Barnett points out that "Article 5 [of the Constitution] provides that on the application of the legislatures of 2/3 of the several states, Congress shall call for a convention for proposing amendments." We could hold tea parties at the capitol buildings in all 50 states while the state legislatures are in session, and demand that they apply to Congress to hold such a convention.

    Talk about hijacking the tea party movement for a risky venture involving our Constitution!

    The staff and members of the John Birch Society, as well as the large number of state legislators of both parties that our members have worked with over the past 20 years, are very familiar with how seemingly attractive the concept of a con-con can be until further study reveals the high degree of risk involved.

    The “Beware of Article V” video embedded near the top of this article has been our most effective resource for convincing state legislators against petitioning Congress for a con-con. We recommend that you show and/or give the “Beware of Article V” video (free to view online; DVD available to buy online) to the organizers of tea party events in your area. It is especially important to help them understand the dangers of a con-con as they are planning for speakers and action agendas for the July 4th tea parties.

    Now for some context on what’s been happening with con-con resolutions in state legislatures during the past 20 years, here’s an excerpt from an article I wrote on the topic last December:

    ... Back in the mid 1970s a balanced budget amendment (bba) movement sprang up and by 1983 it had led to 32 state legislatures asking Congress to call an Article V constitutional convention.

    Enter the JBS. With 32 states out of the necessary 34 (two-thirds) already on record with con-con calls, our nation was only two more states away from a very risky con-con. However, since JBS members got involved in this fight in the 1980s, not one more state has approved a balanced budget amendment con-con. What's more these intrepid Birchers worked closely with their state legislators in many states which led to ten states rescinding (withdrawing) their bba con-con calls as well as all of their other con-con calls for other purposes. So, now instead of 32 states on record with bba con-con calls, there are only 22 states with "live" (unrescinded) bba con-con calls.

    While subtracting ten states off the total with live calls for a bba con-con is very valuable, we do have to realize that the pro con-con forces will argue that the rescissions are not valid and should not be subtracted from the 32 states which originally made their bba con-con calls. They'll argue that the score is still 32 states with only two more needed before Congress calls a con-con. Since we can't predict the outcome of such maneuvering, it's most prudent to work very hard to ensure that no more bba calls are made.


    The bottom line is that we don’t have any comfort margin. If Congress and/or the federal courts would decide not to count the ten state rescissions as valid, then as few as only two more states petitioning Congress for a balanced budget amendment con-con could trigger the convening of a con-con. Furthermore, there is a small minority viewpoint that all of the existing petitions to Congress by state legislatures for a con-con (no matter what the specific reason stated in the petition was) should be added together to get the 34 states required. Initiating a con-con campaign in the manner proposed by Barnett and Leahy could well serve to strengthen the concept that we already have enough con-con calls to convene a constitutional convention.

    The only prudent strategy for us is to defeat con-con calls in every state where such resolutions are introduced and to advise state legislators against even introducing such resolutions in the first place. Our primary educational tool is the “Beware of Article V” video discussed above.

    Our first priority is to persuade the grassroots leaders of the Tea Party Movement not to adopt Barnett and Leahy’s risky con-con strategy. Instead, we must secure our freedom by preserving our Constitution. Our strategy for lowering taxes and reducing the size and cost of government is to create enough grassroots pressure to force Congress to adhere to the Constitution as it is.
    Last edited by LibertyEagle; 05-01-2009 at 10:56 PM.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights



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  3. #2

    Default BEWARE: Constitutional Convention Backers Want to Hijack the Tea Party Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Constitutional Convention Backers Want to Hijack the Tea Party Movement
    This doesn't surprise me at all. I'm gonna do another. I need a speaker who can talk specifically about this issue.

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    And they call Ron Paul supporters crazy?

    I don't think they could even get the support for one. but then again our current state legislators probably think a Constitutional Convention is some meeting at a hotel resort where they can sip margaritas on a beach.
    Last edited by Drknows; 05-01-2009 at 11:19 PM.

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    I thought you all might like to see this. I never took part in any of the conference calls, but this was the main coordination hub for the tea parties.

    Greetings to the Leaders of the Tea Party Patriots,

    This email is going out to all the leaders of the Tea Parties around the nation. We've spoken with many of you personally, and we hope to speak
    to all of you personally in the upcoming days. You are the true heroes of the tea party movement, and we appreciate each and every one of you.
    We are honored to work with you, in one of the greatest grassroots movements in American history. Together, we stand shoulder to shoulder as
    the Tea Party Patriots.

    We've received numerous emails and phone calls asking, "What is next for the Tea Party Movement? How do we turn the protests into actions
    that will change our nation?" Additionally, we're getting a lot of questions about the original Tax Day Tea Party Coalition, and its go-forward status.
    We hope to adequately address all of these issues below.

    Thanks for your continued support.

    Mark Meckler, Amy Kremer, Jenny Beth Martin, Rob Neppell

    National Coordinators - Tea Party Patriots
    Tea Party Patriots
    www.TeaPartyPatriots.org

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Past...

    Original Coalition

    There seems to be a lot of confusion about the original TaxDayTeaParty coalition and it's current position on moving forward. We'd like to
    clear that up for you. To start, it's important to note that all original coalition members are in support of the Tea Party Patriots as
    the heart and soul of the tea party movement, with the exception of Michael Leahy.

    The following are statements from each coalition member, expressing their support of the the Tea Party Patriots. We thank them for their
    support and acknowledge them for the integral role each played in helping this movement struggle to its feet, and become a force to
    contend with. Without their vision and support, provided at a time when success was not inevitable, the tea party movement may never have
    reached the critical mass it can claim today.

    DontGo - According to Eric Odom, founder of the DontGo movement, "There are over 800 rock stars who are responsible for the success of
    the Tax Day Tea Parties on April 15, 2009. We support the Tea Party Patriots as the only truly grassroots organization that speaks for the
    heart and soul of the movement, and for all of the stars who make it possible. We wholeheartedly support their efforts to help all Tea
    Party organizers to coalesce in a single group where they can be most effective. While others, including Michael Leahy, may claim to speak
    for the movement, we know the truth. We know the people organizing the Patriots are grassroots folks who did the heavy lifting at a
    national level to make April 15 a reality, and we look forward to helping in any way we can."

    SmartGirl Politics - According to Stacy Mott, co-founder of SmartGirlPolitics.com, "We support the Tea Party Patriots as the
    logical continuation of the grassroots movement started on April 15th. We will be working cooperatively with the Tea Party Patriots as
    the heart and soul of the movement. We will be making our resources and expertise available to their members in order to seek out and
    train fiscally conservative women to be effective activists and candidates for local, state and federal office."

    American Solutions - Adam Waldeck, Online Community Manager for American Solutions, and the point of contact between AS and the Tax
    Day Tea Party Coalition states, "We believe that the Tea Party Patriots represent the essence of what the tea party movement is, and
    should be. They are the only real successors to the movement which was formerly known as TaxDayTeaParty. We intend to work closely with
    them in the future to develop a resource base for the training of activists across the nation."

    #TCOT / Top Conservatives on Twitter - The final member of the original coalition, #TCOT (Top Conservatives on Twitter), by agreement
    cannot take a position in support of any particular organization. It's founders, Rob Neppell and Michael Leahy have gone their separate
    ways on this issue. While Michael Leahy has founded his own organization with himself as the leader, Rob Neppell has joined the
    Tea Party Patriots national coordinators team to volunteer his technical expertise to the grassroots effort.

    Unfortunately, early this week, the national coordinating team for the Tea Party Patriots were forced to end our relationship with Michael
    Leahy. Though we tried our best to resolve the differences between us, they had become so fundamental that we had no choice.
    Specifically, Michael had great difficulty in working as an equal member of a grassroots team, and despite repeated requests that he
    alter his behavior, he insisted on acting as the self appointed "Leader;" issuing orders, directives and making decisions without
    considering the grassroots or consulting with the other members of the team. We are, and intend to continue to be a bottom up, grassroots
    movement. There is no room for that type of behavior in this movement.

    In short, all members of the original coalition team, with the exception of Michael Leahy, are now supporting the efforts of the Tea
    Party Patriots. There is no longer a "coalition," and thanks to your efforts, the Tea Party Patriots are able to stand on their own. The
    Patriots have excellent relationships with all the members of the original coalition, and many more organizations intending to move in
    the same direction.


    The existing national coordinating team for the Tea Party Patriots (Mark Meckler, Amy Kremer, Jenny Beth Martin and Rob Neppell) has a
    ground up, grassroots approach and we understand that YOU are the real leadership of this movement. This is fundamental to everything the
    Tea Party Patriots stand for, and everything we believe. We who are attempting to serve you at the national coordinating level are not
    here to lead the movement. We are here to reflect what you believe and what you want. We are here to try to provide you with resources,
    networking and a cohesive national presence. We hope you are pleased with what you see so far.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Enough history. We hope that ends the discussion about the past with openness and transparency and allows us to move forward. Here's what
    is going on now, and what we have planned into the future, based upon your expressed desires.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Present and Future...
    Central Website and Hub for Tea Parties

    Tea Party Patriots is the hub website going forward for the Tea Party Movement. The site is located at www.teapartypatrtiots.org . The
    site is a work in process but already has awesome functionality. For instance:

    You can enter and edit your own Tea Parties right here:
    http://teapartypatriots.org/index.ph...ist&view=edite...

    You can join the social network either by using your Facebook id or
    creating your own id: http://teapartypatriots.org/index.ph...ity&view=front....

    You can create groups within the site to notify your local Tea Party Patriots of upcoming events.

    If you do not have a website for your Tea Party, you can use TeaPartyPatriots.org as your website.

    Upcoming Events

    Our next National Tea Party date is July 4th – Independence Day. The theme for July Fourth is " Declaring Independence from Tax and Spend
    Politicians. " Enter your Tea Parties on the teapartypatriots.org site. Please do it right away. And if you were the organizer of the
    last Tea Party, we want to make sure you get in there and enter your next Tea Party immediately to avoid any confusion. We will be here to
    help you in the planning and execution of your Tea Party just like we were for the February 27th and April 15th events.

    While we encourage all cities to participate in the Independence Day Tea Party, we know Patriots around the country are clamoring for more
    and they want it right now! There are several cities planning Memorial Day events and Flag Day. We will help cities planning their
    Tea Parties on the National Date and on other dates as well. Again, these Tea Parties can be entered on the teapartypatriots.org site.
    Don't delay...register today!

    Many, many people want a March on Washington and we are going to team up with Freedom Works with their March on Washington on September
    12th. You can go to http://912dc.org/ for more information about Freedom Works' March. As we have more information about it, we will
    be posting it to TeaPartyPatriots.org.

    National Leadership Council

    You are the people who planned and executed the two previous rounds of Tea Parties. You are the ones who have built this movement from the
    ground up. You have demonstrated the leadership ability and commitment to the cause of government fiscal responsibility. You have
    established relationships in your local community and will continue to build upon them.

    To honor your sacrifices for the movement, we would like to list each of you on our site as not only Local Tea Party Coordinators but also
    as members of our National Leadership Council. In the next few days, we plan to call each of you about our efforts so that we can talk to
    you and get your input in a smaller group setting than the larger Monday night call.

    ...

    to enter your name, Tea Party City Name, phone number, and best time to call you, it would help us as we schedule these calls.

    Other Sites Popping Up

    There are several other sites popping up around the web for Tea Party information. Many of them do not list who the people are behind the
    sites. Please use caution as you fill out information with these sites. We do not know to whom some of the sites belong and they may
    or may not truly be associated with our cause for reducing out of control taxing and spending. You can trust that the Tea Party
    Patriots are, and will always remain, true to the cause.

    Organizational Structure for National and Local Tea Party Organizations

    There have been many questions about how to organize locally and nationally for the Tea Party Movement going forward. We are
    diligently researching these questions. We are working to determine whether and how state and local organization can roll into an umbrella
    of a National Organization. We are working to determine what is required not only by the IRS but also with the FEC. Please be patient
    with us as we gather this information. We have been advised by attorneys that it is better to be slow and cautious with these
    decisions than to jump in quickly, create the wrong type of organization, and then be limited by that structure. As soon as we
    have solid information we can pass to you, we will do so.

    Weekly Conference Calls

    Going forward, we will continue to have the Monday night conference calls so we can share ideas and grow the movement. We will add more
    calls as needed we get closer to an event.
    I don't like that they're planning a theme. The theme should be the Constitution and EVERYONE I've talked to around here (VT) agrees.
    Last edited by LittleLightShining; 05-02-2009 at 12:02 AM.

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    Many, many people want a March on Washington and we are going to team up with Freedom Works with their March on Washington on September
    12th. You can go to http://912dc.org/ for more information about Freedom Works' March. As we have more information about it, we will
    be posting it to TeaPartyPatriots.org.
    anyone ever heard of any of the people from this http://www.teapartypatriots.org site? I haven't, but they claim to be 'bottom up' 'grassroots' etc etc - teaming with freedomworks and TCOT. seems like if they were to be trusted we would know what they were doing during the RP campaign.
    Last edited by nayjevin; 05-02-2009 at 12:21 AM.
    I'm a moderator, and I'm glad to help. But I'm an individual -- my words come from me. Any idiocy within should reflect on me, not Ron Paul, and not Ron Paul Forums.

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    So the states have a Con-Con. They ratify the New Constitution. Then they find some time to read it. In that order.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't even a thing nor are capital gains taxes
    Constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

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    Quote Originally Posted by nayjevin View Post
    anyone ever heard of any of the people from this http://www.teapartypatriots.org site? I haven't, but they claim to be 'bottom up' 'grassroots' etc etc - teaming with freedomworks and TCOT. seems like if they were to be trusted we would know what they were doing during the RP campaign.
    The Tea Party Patriots are the people who signed the letter plus all the people whose information they've gotten from the tea parties-- organizers like me and people who set up accounts on their ning. I have no idea what they were focused on during the election.

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    Any campiagn that Faux news talking heads host/push wont end good.

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    Judge Napolitano advocated a constitutional convention on Beck's show the other day...to abolish the 16th amendment..

    I believe this tea party patriot site came about after that man said we needed a new boston tea party when he was at the stock market on msnbc....and they started organizing the tea party movement.

    Well as for themes, why can't we have a constitution theme...that has issues about commerce and taxes economy etc...so heck..i don't see why it cant be expanded if that is what your group wants to do. I am taking my pitchfork next time.
    We didn't have any bands or speakers..just people with signs and we DID have some people show up selling t shirts that said "FIRE CONGRESS" lol..which I thought was pretty cool..totally unrelated to the actual tea party organization. I like it..however they turn out it is a GOOD THING. Tones
    Last edited by tonesforjonesbones; 05-02-2009 at 11:36 AM.

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    I for one am not really enthused about Pelosi and Reid and others having the ability to "fix" our constitution. The media would cram down a bunch of BS to get the sheeple to back everything from giving away our sovereignty, rights, and America
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
    James Madison

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



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    Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonesforjonesbones View Post
    Judge Napolitano advocated a constitutional convention on Beck's show the other day...to abolish the 16th amendment..
    Problem is, you can't specify that only one thing can be changed. Once a Con-Con is convened, it's ALL up for grabs.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Problem is, you can't specify that only one thing can be changed. Once a Con-Con is convened, it's ALL up for grabs.

    Please tell me what you are scared of? What do you think "they" will do that wont make Texas, Montana and a few other states leave the union causing a civil war? And for that reason alone I think they would only target one issue with out trying anything over the top.

    Plus the people that are pushing for a con-con have said many times ITS A BLUFF. The thought of it alone could make congress act to get rid of the income tax.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsTime View Post
    Please tell me what you are scared of? What do you think "they" will do that wont make Texas, Montana and a few other states leave the union causing a civil war? And for that reason alone I think they would only target one issue with out trying anything over the top.
    What makes you think that all these states would leave the union? Have you checked lately who they choose to represent them in Congress and in local government? You know, those same people who have been subverting our Constitution for years. After you do that, come back here and tell me that you trust that their choice of Con-Con delegates would be knowledgeable enough about constitutional principles and history to turn every single liberty you and everyone else has, over to these guys to decide on.

    BTW, I live in Texas and Rick Perry is a major neocon and pure bull$#@!. He's not for secession. Not for one minute.

    Plus the people that are pushing for a con-con have said many times ITS A BLUFF. The thought of it alone could make congress act to get rid of the income tax.
    I guess you're not aware that some very bad elements have been pushing for a Con-Con for many, many years. I'm not saying this is what this guy that Beck mentioned is, but I do think he is naive, at best. He realizes a Con-Con could turn into a fiasco, but he's willing to risk it. Ain't that just great.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

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    So are you saying The Judge is a plant or that you are smarter than he is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsTime View Post
    So are you saying The Judge is a plant or that you are smarter than he is?
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Ive heard The Judge call for a con con many times before he did last night. So is he one of the evil forces you talked about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsTime View Post
    Ive heard The Judge call for a con con many times before he did last night. So is he one of the evil forces you talked about?
    I wasn't talking about him, no, and I had never heard him mention a Con-Con before Beck's show.

    But yes, I am very disappointed in him right now.

    Instead of trying to take this thread to a personal level, please stay focused on the facts of the issue. ie. the subject of the thread.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    I wasn't talking about him, no, and I had never heard him mention a Con-Con before Beck's show.

    But yes, I am very disappointed in him right now.

    Instead of trying to take this thread to a personal level, please stay focused on the facts of the issue. ie. the subject of the thread.
    The fact is one of the biggest mainstream leaders in the liberty movement is calling for a con-con.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsTime View Post
    The fact is one of the biggest mainstream leaders in the liberty movement is calling for a con-con.
    lol. Yeah, that's a good reason to tag right along.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    lol. Yeah, that's a good reason to tag right along.
    Coming from someone who has told me to shut and toe the line over and over and over again. What a joke.

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    Why do you guys want to keep shooting yourselves in the foot?

    You're intellectual superiority excludes others?

    That kind of attitude gets you nowhere.

    Get used to spending time in the wilderness.

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    Everyone should be fully-versed in Austrian Economics. Be self-reliant, and know Ron Pauls Birthday.

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    Can someone clarify a point for me?

    Is calling for a con-con the equivalent of an on paper disillusion of the union?

    Meaning, if they can't come to agreement at the con-con, then ... poofola to the existing union?

    Cause if that is what it means....I'm thinking I like it a whole bunch.
    Why can't everybody else leave everybody else alone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsTime View Post
    Coming from someone who has told me to shut and toe the line over and over and over again. What a joke.
    You just have to make it personal, don't ya? I guess if all else fails...
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  26. #25

    Default

    What's the commitment count for New Hampshire?

    Give me some#'s.

    Maybe I'll re-settle, and bring my snow shovel.

  27. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    I wasn't talking about him, no, and I had never heard him mention a Con-Con before Beck's show.

    But yes, I am very disappointed in him right now.

    Instead of trying to take this thread to a personal level, please stay focused on the facts of the issue. ie. the subject of the thread.
    I honestly do not understand where you are getting your data from that id 2/3 of the states call for a Con Con that suddenly whatever the Con Con decides on is 'the new constitution.'

    The Law simply does not work that way.

    WHATEVER a hypothetical Con Con comes up with, still has to be ratified by 2/3 of the State's Assemblies; and historically ratification had been held up for as long as 5, 10 years on account of basic punctuation/grammar issues.

    Let's just say for the sake of argument that they do hold a Con Con; and that this Con Con comes up and recommends lifetime President Obama; and permanent and complete Communism.

    NOW that the Con Con is complete, whatever 'changes' they made have to be ratified by 2/3 of the State's Assemblies. There is simply no legal way around that requirement thank God.

    I am not a proponent of holding a Con Con right now. But I do not believe that your alarm here is based on valid data.

    You seem to think that once a Con Con is in session, they can just rewrite whatever they please; and once they adjourn then whatever they decided becomes law.

    It just does not work that way!

  28. #27

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    Remember guys, after the FIRST Con Con; the Constitution still had to be RATIFIED. The same would be true today. There is no legal way around it.
    “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  29. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Remember guys, after the FIRST Con Con; the Constitution still had to be RATIFIED. The same would be true today. There is no legal way around it.
    qft
    >Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated.
    >Dear lord... please allow this dangerous combination of hair spray, bat slobber, and D.O.T. four automatic transmission fluid to excite my mind, occupy my spirits, and enrage my body, provoking me to kick any man or woman in the back of the head regardless of what he or she has or has not done unto me. All my Best, Earlie Cuyler.
    - Earlie Cuyler

  30. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Remember guys, after the FIRST Con Con; the Constitution still had to be RATIFIED. The same would be true today. There is no legal way around it.
    Gunny, they changed the ratification rules in the first Constitutional Convention. We were under the Articles of Confederation at the time and they should have been following THOSE ratification rules. They didn't. They rewrote them and used their new rules instead.

    I'm not saying that this necessarily would be done again, but we need to be aware that it HAS happened before and it darn well could again.

    Regardless, we're getting a bit off-track here. Even if they did follow the current rules for ratification, I don't particularly trust the states to have enough knowledge of the principles of liberty to know WHAT IN HELL THEY ARE LOOKING AT. Much less, what the ramifications of its content would be.

    The bottom line is that even though you may want to hold a Constitutional Convention to change just one thing in the Constitution, once the Con-Con convenes, the delegates can construct an entirely new form of government. It in turn would have to be ratified. That is, unless they decide to change the ratification rules too, during the Convention.

    Willing to take a chance?
    Last edited by LibertyEagle; 05-02-2009 at 04:05 PM.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  31. #30

    Default

    con con must be stopped

    What do you want me to do, to do for you to see you through?
    A box of rain will ease the pain, and love will see you through.
    Box of Rain, Grateful Dead




    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV
    A real feminist would have avoided men altogether and found a perfectly good female partner. Because, y'know, all sexual intercourse is actually rape.
    निर्विकल्पा
    aka Wicked Heathen

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