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Thread: Immigration politics and flu safety

  1. #1

    Immigration politics and flu safety

    For many years now, hand washing has been pushed as the best way to prevent airborne illnesses like colds, flus and even TB. This is pro-immigration politics taking precedent over disease control. One of the past concerns about immigration has been airborne illness such as mutated flus and TB, and the lack of any screening of immigrants. To counter this, the false propaganda has been pushed on us that "hand-washing" is the best way to prevent these airborne illnesses. It's complete bull$#@!. They are attempting to put the responsibility on you, as if you will only get the flu if you are dirty and don't wash your hands enough. Blame yourself; the pro-immigration lobby and lack of immigration medical standards are not to blame.

    Just today, the CDC put out the statement that "we are not concerned about masks, and hand-washing is the most important way to prevent flu transmission". These people are liars, and they are risking your lives for their political agenda.

    Here's the definitive study that proves that the flu is an airborne disease:

    So Palese's team exposed hundreds of guinea pigs to a human flu strain at different temperatures and humidities, in cages that allowed only air to pass from sick animals to well ones. This settled a longstanding dispute over whether flu can spread solely as an airborne infection, or whether physical contact is needed. "It spread just in the air they exhaled," says Palese. "Guinea pigs with flu don't cough or sneeze."

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/...pread-flu.html
    And of course, the soap and hand sanitizer companies have used this to their marketing and sales advantage. To be fair, it is a good idea to wash hands to prevent non-airborne diseases like hepatitis, e-coli, parasites, food/fecal/blood borne pathogens, etc.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    For many years now, hand washing has been pushed as the best way to prevent airborne illnesses like colds, flus and even TB. This is pro-immigration politics taking precedent over disease control. One of the past concerns about immigration has been airborne illness such as mutated flus and TB, and the lack of any screening of immigrants. To counter this, the false propaganda has been pushed on us that "hand-washing" is the best way to prevent these airborne illnesses. It's complete bull$#@!. They are attempting to put the responsibility on you, as if you will only get the flu if you are dirty and don't wash your hands enough. Blame yourself; the pro-immigration lobby and lack of immigration medical standards are not to blame.

    Just today, the CDC put out the statement that "we are not concerned about masks, and hand-washing is the most important way to prevent flu transmission". These people are liars, and they are risking your lives for their political agenda.

    Here's the definitive study that proves that the flu is an airborne disease:



    And of course, the soap and hand sanitizer companies have used this to their marketing and sales advantage. To be fair, it is a good idea to wash hands to prevent non-airborne diseases like hepatitis, e-coli, parasites, food/fecal/blood borne pathogens, etc.
    The best way to stop disease spreading from Mexico is to stop the spreading of Mexicans.

  4. #3
    Even those of us that are on the open borders spectrum of the debate accept contagious disease as a reason to bar/delay entry. That had been the practice before the silly quota systems. I don't think I know of anyone who disagrees with that. Perhaps returning to a more individually based immigration system would address the question better (I've not really giving that point a lot of thought, just brainstorming).
    My review of the For Liberty documentary:
    digg.com/d315eji
    (please Digg and post comments on the HuffPost site)

    "This political train-wreck Republicans face can largely be traced to Bush’s philosophical metamorphosis from a traditional, non-interventionist conservative to the neoconservatives’ exemplar of a 'War President', and his positioning of the Republicans as the 'War Party'."

    Nicholas Sanchez on Bush's legacy, September 30, 2007.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley in DC View Post
    Even those of us that are on the open borders spectrum of the debate accept contagious disease as a reason to bar/delay entry. That had been the practice before the silly quota systems. I don't think I know of anyone who disagrees with that.
    No one that is rational disagrees. But it seems like all debate on immigration health checks stopped. Somewhere around the same time that this "hand-washing fixes everything" nonsense started.

    I would be in favor of border/airlines checks for fever. It's easier than walking through the metal detector. They do it in China before you even get on the plane. That would help with these flu outbreaks.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Minarchy4Sale View Post
    The best way to stop disease spreading from Mexico is to stop the spreading of Mexicans.
    I wouldn't apply it just to Mexicans. Most flues originate in Asia, but could start anywhere.

  7. #6
    They (media, CDC, etc) are still saying "wash your hands", which doesn't help with an airborne flu virus. But the WHO are now adding "etiquette", i.e. don't cough in people's faces, cough into your sleeve, etc. It's a good start. Some day the US may even admit that face-masks can make a difference.

    I guess the big difference is that these are international (Asian) representatives of the WHO, who don't have the US political agenda to pretend that it is not transmitted through the air.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    They (media, CDC, etc) are still saying "wash your hands", which doesn't help with an airborne flu virus. But the WHO are now adding "etiquette", i.e. don't cough in people's faces, cough into your sleeve, etc. It's a good start. Some day the US may even admit that face-masks can make a difference.

    I guess the big difference is that these are international (Asian) representatives of the WHO, who don't have the US political agenda to pretend that it is not transmitted through the air.

    On the CDC site: http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/swineflu_you.htm it states:

    What surfaces are most likely to be sources of contamination?
    Germs can be spread when a person touches something that is contaminated with germs and then touches his or her eyes, nose, or mouth. Droplets from a cough or sneeze of an infected person move through the air. Germs can be spread when a person touches respiratory droplets from another person on a surface like a desk and then touches their own eyes, mouth or nose before washing their hands.

    How long can viruses live outside the body?We know that some viruses and bacteria can live 2 hours or longer on surfaces like cafeteria tables, doorknobs, and desks. Frequent handwashing will help you reduce the chance of getting contamination from these common surfaces.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Minarchy4Sale View Post
    The best way to stop disease spreading from Mexico is to stop the spreading of Mexicans.
    you're an idiot



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  11. #9
    This person from the CDC was just on with Wolfe Blitzer. She emphasized hand washing over and over again. Wolfe has been on the hand-washing propaganda train for a week...

    Not that there is anything wrong with hand washing for other "germs", but it isn't effective with airborne respiratory flues.

    http://www.cdc.gov/about/leadership/...s/schuchat.htm

    "As the Interim Deputy Director for Science and Public Health Program, Schuchat provides leadership and guidance on high impact/high vulnerability science and program issues affecting CDC. Her focus is on ensuring that strong science and programmatic approaches are effectively integrated into planning across the agency"

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by CivilRadiant View Post
    you're an idiot
    such a great argument...

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah K View Post
    Do you think there is a possibility that the CDC in the US is politicized, or just plain wrong in certain cases?

    Like I said in the OP, hand washing is good to prevent some "germs":

    "To be fair, it is a good idea to wash hands to prevent non-airborne diseases like hepatitis, e-coli, parasites, food/fecal/blood borne pathogens, etc."

    I can't find a web link, but I believe there was a study where they had people with contagious cold viruses play cards. They then had uninfected people play with those same cards right after. No disease was transmitted.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Do you think there is a possibility that the CDC in the US is politicized, or just plain wrong in certain cases?

    Like I said in the OP, hand washing is good to prevent some "germs":

    "To be fair, it is a good idea to wash hands to prevent non-airborne diseases like hepatitis, e-coli, parasites, food/fecal/blood borne pathogens, etc."

    I can't find a web link, but I believe there was a study where they had people with contagious cold viruses play cards. They then had uninfected people play with those same cards right after. No disease was transmitted.
    Of course the CDC is politicized. Many even here have been conditioned to believe that international travel is a right, not a privilege and that attempting to filter disease like filtering people is in some way racist. Nothing could be further from the truth, and we are all being put at risk to further some globalist agenda.

    Any 'idiot' can tell you that the first thing you do when faced with a virulent killing disease is to stop it from infecting more people. when people start dropping like flies in asia or Mexico city, it is just good sense to close the borders to those places except to allow people to return home ( and test your citizens returning) to stop the incoming vectors until you can establish what the hell is going on.
    Last edited by Minarchy4Sale; 04-29-2009 at 03:08 PM.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Do you think there is a possibility that the CDC in the US is politicized, or just plain wrong in certain cases?

    Like I said in the OP, hand washing is good to prevent some "germs":

    "To be fair, it is a good idea to wash hands to prevent non-airborne diseases like hepatitis, e-coli, parasites, food/fecal/blood borne pathogens, etc."

    I can't find a web link, but I believe there was a study where they had people with contagious cold viruses play cards. They then had uninfected people play with those same cards right after. No disease was transmitted.
    I'm not sure how you politicize hand washing. Personally, I think it's possible that a virus can live on doorknobs, toilet knobs, faucets, shopping carts, credit card machines, etc. for at least a little while. It makes sense therefore, to clean your hands frequently when you handle things not in your own home.

    As to the card players, these results would also apply to people exposed to the Swine virus in the sense that the immune system of one person will be different than that of another. A quick look at the swine flu indicates that many people are armed with antibodies.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  16. #14
    oh yeah, and for the airborn vs hand washing argument... they are downplaying the airborn issue because there is no real effective protection against airborne viruses except skintight P100 or nano masks. If you don't already have them, you won't find them. the N95 masks help slightly, but too much air flows in around the mask...

    IMO, theyre downplaying the airborn aspect is an attempt to avoid panic...

  17. #15
    Watch this, if you haven't already:

    YouTube - Congressman Paul on the Recent Swine Flu Scare
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

    Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
    "I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah K View Post
    I'm not sure how you politicize hand washing.
    If you are pro-massive-immigration, you don't want anything to slow that down or hinder it in the slightest. One of the best arguments for controls (and restrictions) on immigration was the contagious disease health issue. By saying that "no disease is airborne, wash your hands cures everything", they eliminate health concerns from the immigration debate. If you catch a disease, it is your fault for not washing your hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minarchy4Sale View Post
    oh yeah, and for the airborn vs hand washing argument... they are downplaying the airborn issue because there is no real effective protection against airborne viruses except skintight P100 or nano masks. If you don't already have them, you won't find them. the N95 masks help slightly, but too much air flows in around the mask...

    IMO, theyre downplaying the airborn aspect is an attempt to avoid panic...
    They have been downplaying the airborne aspect for 10-20 years, while ramping up legal and illegal immigration.

    My surgical masks "passes 80 mm Hg, 99% BFE / 99% @ 0.1 Micron particles".

    Any mask may slow down transmission. The virus may be contained in a droplet, which makes the mask/filter more effective. Pull your shirt up over your face if you need to. Hold your breath when someone sneezes or coughs near you and get out of the area. Lots of options to avoid breathing in a virus/droplet cloud that someone creates by coughing. IMO, more effective than washing your hands later.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah K View Post
    Personally, I think it's possible that a virus can live on doorknobs, toilet knobs, faucets, shopping carts, credit card machines, etc. for at least a little while. It makes sense therefore, to clean your hands frequently when you handle things not in your own home.

    As to the card players, these results would also apply to people exposed to the Swine virus in the sense that the immune system of one person will be different than that of another. A quick look at the swine flu indicates that many people are armed with antibodies.
    I am all for hand-washing. I wouldn't be terribly concerned about playing with cards with swine flu or cold virus on them. But I don't want to go near them if they have e-coli or hepatitis!

    I am more concerned about the downplaying of the airborne aspect of colds, flues, and especially what Dr. Paul referenced, TB...

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    For many years now, hand washing has been pushed as the best way to prevent airborne illnesses like colds, flus and even TB. This is pro-immigration politics taking precedent over disease control. One of the past concerns about immigration has been airborne illness such as mutated flus and TB, and the lack of any screening of immigrants. To counter this, the false propaganda has been pushed on us that "hand-washing" is the best way to prevent these airborne illnesses. It's complete bull$#@!. They are attempting to put the responsibility on you, as if you will only get the flu if you are dirty and don't wash your hands enough. Blame yourself; the pro-immigration lobby and lack of immigration medical standards are not to blame.

    Just today, the CDC put out the statement that "we are not concerned about masks, and hand-washing is the most important way to prevent flu transmission". These people are liars, and they are risking your lives for their political agenda.

    Here's the definitive study that proves that the flu is an airborne disease:



    And of course, the soap and hand sanitizer companies have used this to their marketing and sales advantage. To be fair, it is a good idea to wash hands to prevent non-airborne diseases like hepatitis, e-coli, parasites, food/fecal/blood borne pathogens, etc.
    Wow, time flies. That was from over 10 years ago. And I stand by it today.

    Why have they been lying to us about masks during this 2020 COVID-19 pandemic? Because it is part of their globalist agenda.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Wow, time flies. That was from over 10 years ago. And I stand by it today.

    Why have they been lying to us about masks during this 2020 COVID-19 pandemic? Because it is part of their globalist agenda.
    And now the CDC reverses guidance:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...idance-(Again)
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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