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Thread: Surveillance cameras on intersections (some not actually surveillance cameras)

  1. #1

    Lightbulb Surveillance cameras on intersections (some not actually surveillance cameras)

    So I was becoming increasingly disturbed at the amount of cameras that have suddenly appeared in my area and at outside my university and had a chat with the officer in charge of my university police department.

    Apparently a lot of the cameras are not actually surveillance cameras.

    The ones outside my university look like this



    and are pointed directly down at where you would be sitting if you were the first person waiting at a red light.

    These cameras are actually "motion cameras" that are an alternative to the old school method of having weights under the pavement to detect when a car is waiting to go.

    Apparently this is pretty much the standard now at any newly constructed traffic lights because it is cheaper and provides better response for traffic (lowering traffic more effectively)

    According to CALTRANS the cameras are black&white, not recorded, not used for any type of surveillance and the image is distorted and blurry specifically for the reason that if they are stolen they can't be used for anything else.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    However, this is not the same as these cameras



    Dome cameras have a 99% chance of being a surveillance camera. These account for about half of the new cameras I have seen go up in my city.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Also note that "red light" cameras almost always have their own pole and are positioned on the corner, usually in a box type enclosure.




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  3. #2

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    yup...they have had those in good ol england for quite some time. reports round here say that people in the states don't take to kindly to them contraptions & have seen vandalizing incidents on the rise

    they seem to be very faulty, if you don't come to a complete halt by the time it's red you get snapped, & you can't move while it's red
    The accumulated filth of all their sex & murder will foam up about their waists & all the whores & politicians will look up & shout "Save us!"... & I'll look down and whisper "No."

  4. #3

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    we have too many govt cameras spying on us

  5. #4
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    Montana is trying to ban red light cameras.
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    You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you. -- Eric Hoffer

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowish View Post
    Montana is trying to ban red light cameras.
    i should move there.

  7. #6
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  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by JdotRdot View Post
    reports round here say that people in the states don't take to kindly to them contraptions & have seen vandalizing incidents on the rise

    they seem to be very faulty, if you don't come to a complete halt by the time it's red you get snapped, & you can't move while it's red
    Same as over there...

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowish View Post
    Montana is trying to ban red light cameras.
    TBH I don't really have a big problem with red light cameras because they are exactly that, cameras, that take a still frame picture when triggered by you commiting a very dangerous violation.

    What I don't like are the live feed video cameras

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by CivilRadiant View Post
    TBH I don't really have a big problem with red light cameras because they are exactly that, cameras, that take a still frame picture when triggered by you commiting a very dangerous violation.

    What I don't like are the live feed video cameras
    well i already made one argument against it, but here's another...middle of Nevada, 3AM, last light in town, not a soul in sight, next town about 50-100 miles over & there you are at the red light

    i was a truck driver, i went through that scenario regularly...i felt like a complete idiot sitting there waiting for lights at early hours of the morning

    this is pretty much like the gun argument, do you really think a criminal in a stolen car or something is gonna give a hoot about a red light?? not to mention it's already in question that these things actually cause more accidents than they prevent because people make abrupt stops to not get snapped for failing to come to a complete stop when the light changes to red
    The accumulated filth of all their sex & murder will foam up about their waists & all the whores & politicians will look up & shout "Save us!"... & I'll look down and whisper "No."

  11. #10

  12. #11

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    I was seriously thinking of making a Google map of each intersection near me with these damn cameras. I hate the big brother aspect of Google, so I have yet to make an account. I was wondering if they have IR capability. I didn't see any IR light projected from the camera's with my cellphone camera. I know the only way to see what these cameras are really for. I am working on that plan.

    It doesn't seem like these camera are being used for traffic law enforcement. I can hear police radio traffic on my scanner for each car being pulled over. I've tried to travel across my city and across another one and then back home, its hard to not go thru an intersection without these cameras.
    Last edited by akihabro; 05-21-2009 at 09:46 PM.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of
    'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day
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  13. #12

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    if your wife, or daughter, or mother.... was ever grabbed.. and dragged into a van... and then raped and killed... you would be glad there was a camera there to capture the licence plate and get a description.

    And if there was no camera... you would cry.. and ask.. why arent there cameras?


    it works both ways.

    if your not committing a crime, then they should not bother you.

    but if you are... then obviously.. they would.

    THE REAL ISSUE... is who is watching, what do they do with the recordings, and how long do they keep them, and what laws protect the people who are being watched?



    -MEMAT

  14. #13
    Moderator jdmyprez_deo_vindice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosheh Thezion View Post
    if your wife, or daughter, or mother.... was ever grabbed.. and dragged into a van... and then raped and killed... you would be glad there was a camera there to capture the licence plate and get a description.

    And if there was no camera... you would cry.. and ask.. why arent there cameras?


    it works both ways.

    if your not committing a crime, then they should not bother you.

    but if you are... then obviously.. they would.

    THE REAL ISSUE... is who is watching, what do they do with the recordings, and how long do they keep them, and what laws protect the people who are being watched?



    -MEMAT
    I suppose you have no problem with someone at the NSA listening in on your private phone calls either. You have nothing to hide so why not? It is this line of thinking that paved the road for the crap we find ourselves submerged in as a nation. If we were in chat I would so be dropping a *changepolicy* right about now.
    "Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people
    designed to make of their victory,
    there would have been no surrender at
    Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me.
    Had I foreseen these results of subjugation,
    I would have preferred to die at Appomattox
    with my brave men, my sword in my right hand." - Robert E. Lee to Governor Fletcher S. Stockdale (D-Texas), 1870


  15. #14

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosheh Thezion View Post

    THE REAL ISSUE... is who is watching, what do they do with the recordings, and how long do they keep them, and what laws protect the people who are being watched?
    I agree with this to an extent.

    What originally spurred my investigation into this was the appearance of the cameras outside my college.

    I was surprised to find out that even though they were indeed cameras, they are not surveillance cameras.

    I was prepared to begin a campaign to make sure that the cameras would be "closed circuit" and that access would be restricted specifically to the college control only.

  16. #15

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    First post, first pic - we have those things all over the place here. We've had them for a while - think we were early to get them in the program.

    What you missed is that some varieties (actually very common) pick up license plates. scan / OCR them and track travel. Lately I've noticed many have been re-oriented to not face on coming traffic, but over the lane and focused to look at the rear of the car after it's exited the intersection. A lot of people don't have plates on the front.

    These are obviously not for changing lights.

    As an aside, during the campaign some groups located the ones that broadcast over the internet for people to check out traffic conditions and set up their signs to play to the camera's. A rock group did this too, then used a FOIA request to get the tapes, synced in audio and made a music video.

    -t
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  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by CivilRadiant View Post
    I agree with this to an extent.

    What originally spurred my investigation into this was the appearance of the cameras outside my college.

    I was surprised to find out that even though they were indeed cameras, they are not surveillance cameras.

    I was prepared to begin a campaign to make sure that the cameras would be "closed circuit" and that access would be restricted specifically to the college control only.

    YES... its a question of who is watching. why, and what do they do with it?

    I say... local comminities.. should control this...

    your college for example, could control the local cameras, and the people via appointment via city councils, could control what is done.

    The issue... is safety...

    We want... safety.. and so we would like cameras... but.. WE DONT WANT THE GOVERNMENT... to be collecting files, and storing data on us, in a secret base, with reports to people we dont trust.

    WE WANT... LOCAL CONTROL... with no controlling oversite from people who dont live near the Cameras..like a distant capital government.


    if there was local control and laws to protect the content, and use and storage, then it could be allowed for without any major fears. and then... the government should get a warrent, for good reason, to get the footage.. when there is a good reason... like a crime.



    it is only the fact that they are being installed and controlled by law enforement which is controlled by a distant government which is not very nice.

    that is the problem today... and something which can be fixed.

    -MEMAT

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdmyprez_deo_vindice View Post
    I suppose you have no problem with someone at the NSA listening in on your private phone calls either. You have nothing to hide so why not? It is this line of thinking that paved the road for the crap we find ourselves submerged in as a nation. If we were in chat I would so be dropping a *changepolicy* right about now.

    I do have a problem with it...

    my phone.. is not on a street corner, in public view, for public use.

    it is a private phone.

    ha.. sometimes, i love to say... "jihad, Allah, bomb, and Muhammad", while on the phone... to try and trigger their tap systems.. to record my conversation about me asking for sex from my girlfriend.. ha...

    just to waste their time.

    but of course.. its not a joking matter.

    -MEMAT

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosheh Thezion View Post
    if your wife, or daughter, or mother.... was ever grabbed.. and dragged into a van... and then raped and killed... you would be glad there was a camera there to capture the licence plate and get a description.

    And if there was no camera... you would cry.. and ask.. why arent there cameras?


    it works both ways.

    if your not committing a crime, then they should not bother you.

    but if you are... then obviously.. they would.

    THE REAL ISSUE... is who is watching, what do they do with the recordings, and how long do they keep them, and what laws protect the people who are being watched?

    -MEMAT
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  20. #19

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    Yes well, if all women were carring guns and knew how to use them, it would not stop gangs of rapists... or even one dedicated man.

    I do not support...a camera police state... but that is what we have.

    I say... the power to control those cameras, should be given to local city councils, and that the content tightly controlled, and warrents needed as the only way for the government to make use of them.

    ie... if no one has been attacked or gone missing, or crime committed, then they have no buisness watching the movements of a free people.

    but shit happens.. and when it does.. then, and only then, should they be able to use the cameras to check for evidence...

    but not... have free control to observe what ever they like, as they like, by a government which may not be very nice, and be controlled at any time by biased individuals.

    -MEMAT

  21. #20

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    Double edged sword. It caught the plate of the person who just broke into your house and tracked where you drove because the government doesn't like your political beliefs. Look at the UK, they have cameras all over the place. There has been news articles that it doesn't help crime. Look at how many bank robbers, burglaries, etc are caught on camera and never solved.
    There was a nasty traffic accident near my house. I couldn't figure out who was traveling in what direction. They had cameras facing each direction at the intersection. Apparently they concluded the person whose car was flipped fell asleep at the wheel, at 4pm! I forgot to ask the police if they caught it on camera.
    Last edited by akihabro; 05-22-2009 at 01:26 AM.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of
    'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day
    America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. ~ Norman Thomas

    Insurrection will amass from the inside. ~ Me 3/17/09

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosheh Thezion View Post
    I do have a problem with it...

    my phone.. is not on a street corner, in public view, for public use.

    it is a private phone.

    ha.. sometimes, i love to say... "jihad, Allah, bomb, and Muhammad", while on the phone... to try and trigger their tap systems.. to record my conversation about me asking for sex from my girlfriend.. ha...

    just to waste their time.

    but of course.. its not a joking matter.

    -MEMAT
    I don't know where I got the info, but when I was less than 15 I did the same on the phone. I was talking to my friend and said:bomb, kill president, white house, assassinate, etc. We surprisingly didn't have the FBI kick down our door.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of
    'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day
    America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. ~ Norman Thomas

    Insurrection will amass from the inside. ~ Me 3/17/09

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by akihabro View Post
    Double edged sword. It caught the plate of the person who just broke into your house and tracked where you drove because the government doesn't like your political beliefs. Look at the UK, they have cameras all over the place. There has been news articles that it doesn't help crime. Look at how many bank robbers, burglaries, etc are caught on camera and never solved.
    they should be able to check the cameras, if I, the homeowner made a complaint in the common law.. of being robbed..


    but... they should not be able to watch my movements, without a warrent, and if they are found to be doing warrentless survalence, without a good reason, with a bogus warrent.. OR NO WARRENT... then someone... someone... must go to jail.
    preferably.. the judge... who gave the bogus warrent..

    that is what the law should be...

    but right now... the people have no protections... from being followed without a good reason.

    That... is the fundamental problem right now.

    And is something we can fix.

    -MEMAT

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by akihabro View Post
    I don't know where I got the info, but when I was less than 15 I did the same on the phone. I was talking to my friend and said:bomb, kill president, white house, assassinate, etc. We surprisingly didn't have the FBI kick down our door.
    nah... they listen to see if its worth listenning to...

    I do it... just to waste their time.

    -MEMAT





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