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Thread: Orthodox celebrate holy fire ritual in Jerusalem

  1. #1

    Orthodox celebrate Holy Fire ritual in Jerusalem

    Orthodox celebrate Holy Fire ritual in Jerusalem

    By ALON BERNSTEIN – 9 hours ago




    JERUSALEM (AP) — Thousands of Orthodox faithful, carrying torches and bundles of candles signifying the 33 years of Jesus' life, packed into Christianity's holiest shrine on Saturday to celebrate Easter Week's holy fire ritual.

    Christians traditionally believe Jesus was crucified and buried at the site in Jerusalem's Old City where the Church of the Holy Sepulcher now stands.

    The holy fire ritual, celebrated the day before the Orthodox Easter, honors the belief that a holy fire appears spontaneously from Jesus' tomb as a message that he has not forgotten his followers.

    About 10,000 worshippers attended the afternoon ceremony, some arriving before dawn to make sure they would be able to enter the cavernous, heavily secured church. Believers who arrived too late celebrated outside in the church's cobblestone courtyard, some of them beating on hand drums.

    Inside the darkened church, worshippers clutching bundles of unlit tapers and torches waited expectantly as the Greek Orthodox Patriarch in the Holy Land, Theofilos III, descended with a group of Greek, Armenian and other Orthodox clergy into Jesus' traditional tomb. After the flame appeared there, Theofilos passed it from the tomb to believers inside the church's main hall, who cheered and wept, and rushed to light their own candles and torches.

    Within seconds, the cavernous church was filled with a sudden burst of illumination and smoke. Many of the pilgrims held the light to their faces to bask in the holy glow.

    Ukrainian, Russian and Greek believers were most heavily represented at the church.

    "I feel very good and I feel the light, the light inside on our soul, the light," said Georgios Papageorgiou, a Greek monk.

    Tom Vomastik, an American tourist from Milwaukee, Wis., said he found the ceremony moving.

    "To be here for the procession of the holy fire, which is probably the biggest event of the year, is pretty exciting."

    Light from the holy fire was taken afterward to the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, West Bank, where tradition holds Jesus was born, and aboard special flights to Athens and other cities.

    The ritual dates back at least 1,200 years. The precise details of the flame's source are a closely guarded secret.

    Security was tight at the church, with thousands of police officers on hand. In the past, the ceremony has been the scene of scuffles between adherents of the various Orthodox denominations that control different sections of the church.

    Tempers flared before the ceremony began, after pilgrims inside the crowded church found themselves on the turf of other groups. Police separated the various denominations in an effort to avoid any blows over rights of worship inside the church.

    Barricades inside the shrine separated the different Orthodox groups.

    Greek Orthodox, Armenians and other Eastern rite Christians mark Easter on Sunday, a week after observances by other Christian denominations, because they follow a different calendar.

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    more links:
    Orthodox Christians celebrate Easter with ceremony of the Holy Fire (video)

    The Miracle of the Holy Fire
    Last edited by TER; 04-18-2009 at 05:52 PM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by TodaysEpistleReading View Post
    The ritual dates back at least 1,200 years. The precise details of the flame's source are a closely guarded secret.

    I would correct this and say that "the precise details of the flame's source" is not a closely guarded secret but rather is believed to be a miracle which appears from the tomb of Christ every year on Holy Saturday since as far back as it has been recorded.

    For those who have ears, hear.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  4. #3
    I know several people who have made the trip over to participate in the ritual. All of them have said that there is no comparison between a video of the event, and what it is like to see it with your own eyes.

    I'd love to get over there to see it one day.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by sluggo View Post
    I know several people who have made the trip over to participate in the ritual. All of them have said that there is no comparison between a video of the event, and what it is like to see it with your own eyes.

    I'd love to get over there to see it one day.
    I hope to go before I leave this earth. The accounts I have heard are simply unbelievable. Its a wonder this is not more well known in the West.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  6. #5
    Sorry, I don't buy it.

    Oh, there may be a fire alright, but I seriously doubt it is the Lord causing it!

    Besides, we don't need "fires" to tell us He has not forgotten us. We have His Word on the matter:

    "And lo, I AM WITH YOU ALWAYS, [even] to the end of the age." - Matt. 28:20

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by politicsNproverbs View Post
    Sorry, I don't buy it.

    Oh, there may be a fire alright, but I seriously doubt it is the Lord causing it!

    Besides, we don't need "fires" to tell us He has not forgotten us. We have His Word on the matter:

    "And lo, I AM WITH YOU ALWAYS, [even] to the end of the age." - Matt. 28:20
    Its okay if you don't buy it. No one said it would not require faith.

    There will always be those who deny it.

    For 2,000 years, people have believed it and given there lives in witness to it.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  8. #7
    For 2,000 years, people have believed it and given there lives in witness to it.
    Why follow the crowd? The truth is usually in the opposite direction. ;-) [Matt. 7:13-14]

    No one said it would not require faith.
    I would think it takes MORE faith to simply believe the Lord's words, than oooh-aaaahing over "signs and wonders."

    "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles ..." - Rev. 13:13
    Sounds like a magician's trick to me...

    Inside the darkened church [meaning who can really SEE what is going on?] ... the Greek Orthodox Patriarch in the Holy Land, Theofilos III, descended with a group of Greek, Armenian and other Orthodox clergy into Jesus' traditional tomb. After the flame appeared there, Theofilos passed it from the tomb to believers inside the church's main hall...
    How does anyone know where the flame really came from? (It's a secret, they tell you). That head religious guy Theofilos is the one who passes it out from the tomb. For all anyone knows he took a big giant box of matches with him into the tomb... ;-)

    The ritual dates back at least 1,200 years. The precise details of the flame's source are a closely guarded secret.
    Two words stick out like sore thumbs: "RITUAL" and "SECRET." Hmmm. Sounding more like the Devil and his friends all the time. Not to mention the church was DARK while the Head religious guy DESCENDS into the tomb (where it is even darker, no doubt) with a few other guys, and Poof! All the sudden a fire appears out of nowhere? While the "source" for the fire which is kept "secret"? C'mon youz guyz. Jesus said: "...in SECRET I have said NOTHING." -John 18:20. So who you going to believe?

    Also, the mysterious flame only began showing up 1,200 years ago, per that article, or around 809 A.D., which is a long ways beyond the first century church. I wonder, what was happeniing in Jerusalem around 809 A.D.?

    Besides, those old churches are downright creepy, dark, demonic, and ominous, with blasphemous artwork. Check out the phallic symbol on Jesus' chest as they are taking him off the cross...


    Church of the Holy Sepulcher



    ...and again, the phallic symbol on His chest in the picture where they are laying Him on the slab...




    Think I'm kidding? See the excellent DVD documentary, "RAPE OF THE SOUL" http://www.rapeofthesoul.com/ - researched, written and produced by Michael Calace, a Catholic, if that's any consolation for you. ;-)

    If you've never looked into the whole sphere of "subliminal art" in churches and their artwork (not just Orthodox and/or Catholic but all of them), now's a good time! Fascinating... yet upsetting, too (downright creepy and disgusting/disturbing), but better to know than not know, right?

    (Those two photos from that church I grabbed off the net from a Flickr album here... It is somebody's Israel tour in 2004:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/healinglight/sets/1307968/ )

    Lastly, this was telling... why there is So Much "Fruit of the Spirit" among those "church people" (Not!) they have to have the police around to keep order! Pffff!

    In the past, the ceremony has been the scene of scuffles between adherents of the various Orthodox denominations that control different sections of the church.

    Tempers flared before the ceremony began, after pilgrims inside the crowded church found themselves on the turf of other groups. Police separated the various denominations in an effort to avoid any blows over rights of worship inside the church.

    Barricades inside the shrine separated the different Orthodox groups.
    Sorry to rain on your "fire parade," brother, but c'mon! ;-/
    Last edited by politicsNproverbs; 04-18-2009 at 07:55 PM.

  9. #8
    In the manner you mock the Orthodox faith, it is obvious you know very little about the historic Church. Respectably, after you've studied more, than we can discuss the weak arguments you have raised.

    As a fellow brother in Christ, I would be happy to PM you some articles to read, if you dare to open your mind and heart and cast aside your erroneous prejudices and presuppositions aside. Sadly, I fear you are not willing, and you should know it is your lost not mine.

    In the meantime, as an exercise, study this: How and when was it decided which writings of the Holy Scriptures should be included in the Holy Bible?
    Last edited by TER; 04-19-2009 at 12:00 AM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ



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  11. #9
    I would also LOVE to see it.

    Politics, you remind me of a hilarious line from Still Standing:

    SIL: Look at the girls in these pictures. They have no hands....my studies have taught that when a child doesn't draw hands, they feel helpless and lonely.

    Bill: Maybe she just can't draw hands.

    later on...

    SIL: Honey, are you feeling helpless and lonely?

    Daughter: No.

    SIL: But these pictures, these girls have no hands.

    Daughter: yeah, I can't draw hands.
    >Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated.
    >Dear lord... please allow this dangerous combination of hair spray, bat slobber, and D.O.T. four automatic transmission fluid to excite my mind, occupy my spirits, and enrage my body, provoking me to kick any man or woman in the back of the head regardless of what he or she has or has not done unto me. All my Best, Earlie Cuyler.
    - Earlie Cuyler

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by asimplegirl View Post
    I would also LOVE to see it.

    Politics, you remind me of a hilarious line from Still Standing:

    SIL: Look at the girls in these pictures. They have no hands....my studies have taught that when a child doesn't draw hands, they feel helpless and lonely.

    Bill: Maybe she just can't draw hands.

    later on...

    SIL: Honey, are you feeling helpless and lonely?

    Daughter: No.

    SIL: But these pictures, these girls have no hands.

    Daughter: yeah, I can't draw hands.
    that's was a cute story!

    It is so easy to make 'affirmative' assumptions on things one knows little to nothing about just by basing and comparing it to their own limited sphere of knowledge. It is a weakness most people have, myself included.

    Had SIL heeded Bill's advice and asked the little girl "can you draw hands?" or even "why did you not draw hands on this picture?", she would have learned the truth.

    Instead, out of pride and arrogance, she didn't even bother asking.
    Last edited by TER; 04-19-2009 at 12:17 AM.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  13. #11
    Right...that was the point of the entire episode, they were ASSUMING that they knew that their child was depressed from drawings...the child ended up using them to get what they wanted out of sympathy.

    I fail alot because of this, also...we all do. Some times, we should just say, "You know what...I really don't know. That's okay."
    >Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated.
    >Dear lord... please allow this dangerous combination of hair spray, bat slobber, and D.O.T. four automatic transmission fluid to excite my mind, occupy my spirits, and enrage my body, provoking me to kick any man or woman in the back of the head regardless of what he or she has or has not done unto me. All my Best, Earlie Cuyler.
    - Earlie Cuyler

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TodaysEpistleReading View Post
    In the manner you mock the Orthodox faith, it is obvious you know very little about the historic Church. Respectably, after you've studied more, than we can discuss the weak arguments you have raised.

    As a fellow brother in Christ, I would be happy to PM you some articles to read, if you dare to open your mind and heart and cast aside your erroneous prejudices and presuppositions aside. Sadly, I fear you are not willing, and you should know it is your lost not mine.

    In the meantime, as an exercise, study this: How and when was it decided which writings of the Holy Scriptures should be included in the Holy Bible?
    What you consider mocking I consider obvious facts that you choose to overlook because it would "seem" you are more caught up in "signs and wonders" to keep your faith going. Gotta go get that "thrill" by seeing the "fire" that Theofilis (sp?) grabs from the dark tomb and carries out to the poor pitiful souls falling for such things (I suppose you believe in bleeding and crying Mary statues, too?)

    I would think ANYBODY that visits this forum would have alarm bells going off in their head when they see the words RITUAL and SECRET. Your heirarchal religious leaders want to keep SECRETS from you. And you are buying into it? It's OK by me. Whatever suits your fancy. It leaves you wide open to deception, though. That's a fact wherever secrets prevail. Look around at the government doing the same thing.

    It sounds like, if you are Catholic/Orthodox, that you belong to the "ritualistic-heirarchal-legalistic-works" camp (been there/done that), and I'm totally and thankfully now embedded in the "Grace by Faith Alone" camp. And never the twain shall meet. No way I'm going backward. And it appears you prefer not to progress forward.

    And yes, the canonical decisions of which books made it into the Bible, thanks to the CC. Too bad they hid it for 1,000 years thereafter (how loving) and kept it from the common people. (Better to deceive you with the less scripture you know, Middle/Dark Ages and now). The same way The Fed doesn't want its dirty laundry known, ditto for the CC having its heresies exposed via scripture. So what did they do? Kept it under lock and key and burned/tortured people who believed in the truth of scripture vs. the lies/heresies of the church, etc. etc.

    No sense hashing it over. Surely you know all of that, but obviously it doesn't matter to you.

    Take care!

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by politicsNproverbs View Post
    What you consider mocking I consider obvious facts that you choose to overlook because it would "seem" you are more caught up in "signs and wonders" to keep your faith going. Gotta go get that "thrill" by seeing the "fire" that Theofilis (sp?) grabs from the dark tomb and carries out to the poor pitiful souls falling for such things (I suppose you believe in bleeding and crying Mary statues, too?)

    I would think ANYBODY that visits this forum would have alarm bells going off in their head when they see the words RITUAL and SECRET. Your heirarchal religious leaders want to keep SECRETS from you. And you are buying into it? It's OK by me. Whatever suits your fancy. It leaves you wide open to deception, though. That's a fact wherever secrets prevail. Look around at the government doing the same thing.
    Whether the flame has supernatural origins or not has nothing to do with keeping the Orthodox faith going. If it's truly supernatural, then it's a wonderful symbol of Christ's resurrection. If it's started by a priest with a cigarette lighter, it's still a wonderful symbol of Christ's resurrection.

    It sounds like, if you are Catholic/Orthodox, that you belong to the "ritualistic-heirarchal-legalistic-works" camp (been there/done that), and I'm totally and thankfully now embedded in the "Grace by Faith Alone" camp. And never the twain shall meet. No way I'm going backward. And it appears you prefer not to progress forward.
    You know, the words "Faith alone" only appear once in the bible, in the 2nd chapter of James. Look it up, but be warned that it doesn't say what you want it to say.

    And yes, the canonical decisions of which books made it into the Bible, thanks to the CC. Too bad they hid it for 1,000 years thereafter (how loving) and kept it from the common people. (Better to deceive you with the less scripture you know, Middle/Dark Ages and now). The same way The Fed doesn't want its dirty laundry known, ditto for the CC having its heresies exposed via scripture. So what did they do? Kept it under lock and key and burned/tortured people who believed in the truth of scripture vs. the lies/heresies of the church, etc. etc.
    If the Bible opposed what the Catholic and Orthodox churches teach, why would they keep it under lock and key? Why wouldn't they just destroy it or condemn it (like they condemned a lot of heretical 1st and 2nd century books)? Why would their monks spend their entire lives transcribing it to preserve it for future generations? And if it was under lock and key, how did the Reformation leaders get their hands on it? I don't recall any stories of 16th century Protestant raids on Vatican vaults to get the Bible. The Church has never hid Scripture from its people. If you ever go to Mass or pray any Catholic prayers, you will find the entire experience to be one long recitation of Scripture. If you go to Mass every day for 3 years, you will have heard the entire Bible read aloud, and that is how it has been for 2000 years. That hardly seems like a Church trying to "hide" the Bible.

  16. #14
    The truth is, and has always been, that the Church is not a product of the Scriptures but rather the Scriptures are a product of the Church (guided by the Holy Spirit).
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TodaysEpistleReading View Post
    The truth is, and has always been, that the Church is not a product of the Scriptures but rather the Scriptures are a product of the Church (guided by the Holy Spirit).
    Thank You. The end.
    >Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated.
    >Dear lord... please allow this dangerous combination of hair spray, bat slobber, and D.O.T. four automatic transmission fluid to excite my mind, occupy my spirits, and enrage my body, provoking me to kick any man or woman in the back of the head regardless of what he or she has or has not done unto me. All my Best, Earlie Cuyler.
    - Earlie Cuyler



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