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Thread: Does the Bill of Rights apply to non-citizens?

  1. #1
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    Default Does the Bill of Rights apply to non-citizens?

    As a foreigner, am I protected by the Bill of Rights?

    For example, if I were stopped at an border patrol stop INSIDE the US, not at a border, and I identify myself as a foreign national, am I still covered by the 4th Amendment to not have my vehicle searched if there is no probable cause or warrant?

    Something like this:

    YouTube - Abusive Border Patrol Agents w/ Nun Chucks at NM Checkpoint
    YouTube - Papers Please Nazi "SS" Gestapo Check Point inside the USA,



  • #2

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    No ("People of the United States" has been "interpreted" to mean U.S. citizen), but you're still subject to our laws even when outside of the U.S., since the NSA was permitted to wiretap people outside the U.S.

    Edit: Harry Browne has an "ought to be" article on who the Bill of Rights ought to apply to ( http://www.lewrockwell.com/browne/browne27.html )

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    So foreign nationals are not protected by the 1st amendment for example? Are they entitled to any rights?

    The article you linked to states that the Constitution bars the federal government from unreasonable searches, per the 4th amendment. So does it mean its only barred from doing that to citizens or to everyone?
    Last edited by eduardo89; 04-17-2009 at 03:22 AM.

  • #4

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    Once upon a time, the Supreme Court was in the habit of saying that the inalienable rights of the Constitution applied to everyone within our borders--at least to a degree. These days, the government seems determined to deny them to everyone but members of the Executive and Congress and their pet lobbyists...
    We can't let them redirect the debate back to Red/Blue. Rand Paul's filibuster served as a clarion call, and opened eyes to the real divide--liberty v. tyranny. Everyone saw the president stall twenty-four hours before the AG confirmed we still have Constitutional due process. Don't let them turn this back into 'Left'/'Right' dogmaganda.

    We, the People--'Red' and 'Blue'--must hang together or surely we will hang seperately.

  • #5
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    The Bill of Rights should apply to foreign nationals for criminal affairs at least, assuming they are not an active combatant in a foreign military we are at war with.
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  • #6

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    What most people don't know is that the Bill of Rights actually comes with its own preamble. See http://www.billofrights.org/

    This preamble refers to the Bill of Rights as "declaratory." In other words, these rights are not given to us by the Constitution; these are natural rights and we are declaring that we have them regardless of what government says.

    That's how it's SUPPOSED to work. But in practicality, even U.S. citizens are often denied their rights by tyrants.

  • #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Once upon a time, the Supreme Court was in the habit of saying that the inalienable rights of the Constitution applied to everyone within our borders--at least to a degree. These days, the government seems determined to deny them to everyone but members of the Executive and Congress and their pet lobbyists...
    Yep. It still does, but it is getting muddled.
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  • #8

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    PEOPLE. A state; as, the people of the state of New York; a nation in its collective and political capacity.

  • #9

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    The constitution has a clear definition of who is a citizen, but being a US person doesn't mean you are a US citizen. The bill of rights applies to all US persons and that applies even to "illegal" immigrants. After all, you are innocent until proven guilty, and until someone has proven you are here illegally, you are presumed to be a legal resident, whether temporary on a Visa, or permanent residency.

    Personally, I think the whole illegal immigration thing would not be an issue if it weren't for Welfare and other social programs. When my grandparents came to this country through Ellis Island there was no such thing as illegal immigrants. True, some people denied them jobs because they had accents, but they didn't ask for social assistance, and indeed there was none to be had. If we eliminate the social programs, there would still be people posting "We don't hire Mexican" signs just like the "We don't hire Polish" signs my grandparents faced. But if they didn't find work, they would either starve, or stowaway on the next ship somewhere else.

  • #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Njon View Post
    What most people don't know is that the Bill of Rights actually comes with its own preamble. See http://www.billofrights.org/

    This preamble refers to the Bill of Rights as "declaratory." In other words, these rights are not given to us by the Constitution; these are natural rights and we are declaring that we have them regardless of what government says.

    That's how it's SUPPOSED to work. But in practicality, even U.S. citizens are often denied their rights by tyrants.
    If our rights are are granted by our creator, then every person has those rights. The Bill of Rights merely declares those rights. The constitution is to establish a government to protect those rights while also restricting it from infringing on them. And those rights don't cost anyone anything to exercise them. Therefore health care, education, etc. is not a right. But that's just my opinion.

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