Focus on the Family narrator arrested for luring teenage girl for sex on Net

[WarDog]

Well, setting aside the sheer hypocrisy of a supposed religious person getting nailed in a sex crime like this, I have a concern.

The first is, where is the crime? This looks like entrapment. There was no 15 year old girl. There was no sex.

The only "crime" (if it can be called that) is that Juan was dumb enough to imagine that a real 15 year old girl willing to have sex is so desperate to find a partner that she needs to use the internet.

I mean, look back to when you were 15. Would that make any sense at all?



http://coloradoindependent.com/25840...for-sex-on-net

[LittleLightShining]

I used to listen to FOTF and I had to stop because 1) they talked about sex waaaay too much and 2) they were Bush champions through and through.

That guy was in a chat room looking for sex talk. If the report is accurate the "girl" simply said her parents weren't home and he invited himself over. The entrapment argument does stand to a certain extent in the majority of cases because it seems like 90% of the stories I hear about are the ones where the perverted cops are talking about sex with perverted men. On the other hand the real cases usually end in tragedy.

The thing that bothers me the most about the whole story is Cheezo. I do not want some big, furry police mascot talking about internet luring to my kids while they're in school. No wonder the education system is in the toilet.

[coyote_sprit]

A lot of the sting operations could be charged with harassment. I've seen cases where they wouldn't leave some people alone until they agreed to meet and have sex with a kid. When a normal citizen does that it's harassment and in some cases even sexual harassment but when a news agency or the government does it it's all fine and dandy.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I'm really suprised they did this in state. Usually, the "teenager" tries to determine where you live and announces they live or will be visiting a relative just over the state line and very conviently close to the town you live in...

Remember when they started doing this BS. People cought on pretty quick after 7 or so 14 year olds showed up on the same evening in chat rooms that were supposed to be for 18+ people, allways wanting to loose their virginity to an older guy... - yeah right!

It's my understanding that a lot of these cases were thrown out for those stupid enough to follow through.

-t

[acptulsa]

Many of these religious sites and shows are so strange. Quite a few of the biggest homosexual bashers are flamers themselves. And here's someone equally hypocritical. Very odd. Anyone who says 'God is telling you to send me money' is a lying sack of dirt and that's that.

That said, how can coming on to a 42 year old cop be any kind of statutory rape? This is a thought crime nowadays. There's not only no victim, there's no crime. The whole thing's insane.

[tangent4ronpaul]

There's not only no victim, there's no crime. The whole thing's insane.

I've been looking into this a bit lately. I'm reminded of the John Le Carre novel, believe it was "The Looking Glass War" where secret operations were carried out simply because there was money in the budget to do them.

Check out this bill that became law last year for an idea of the sheer size of this whole sex/thought crime police state:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-1738

This bill ALONE will cost the taxpayers 1 Billion dollars!

What got me started looking into it was a couple of articles on wikileaks about Internet Black lists (blocking certain url's). These have always been started under the pretext of preventing the transmission of child pornography, and because they are secret (though many have leaked and so have actually promoted it's spread) they have always been perverted into stifling political speech. So I remembered watching C-SPAN last year when a couple of these bills were going through and one guy was singing praise to the legislation but was quickly shut up by his companion as soon as he mentioned ISP's, so I started wondering if the USA had such a system in place. It turns out we do.

While S. 519 (Introduced by John McCain) did pass the House, it has not passed the Senate and is expected to be re-introduced in this Congressional session. Here is the troubling area:

S.519 SAFE Act of 2007 (Introduced in Senate), 110th Congress

"Sec. 2258C. Use of images from the CyberTipline to combat child pornography

(a) In General- The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children is authorized to provide elements relating to any image reported to its CyberTipline to an electronic communication service provider or a remote computing service provider for the sole and exclusive purpose of permitting that electronic communication service provider or remote computing service provider to stop the further transmission of images. Such elements may include unique identifiers associated with a specific image, INTERNET LOCATION OF IMAGES (emphasis added), and other technological elements that can be used to identify and stop the transmission of child pornography."

Don't remember if it was in this one or another one but there was a section saying ISP's were not required to monitor users, however they are required to report them if something comes to their attention. The legislation was written in such a way that a one liner like "18 USC section yada yada is hereby modified by striking the word "not" at this location" would make it mandatory for ISP's to spy on their users. It would be slipped into a 1,300 page must pass appropriations bill... or something like that that nobody would ever notice.

Here's some of the wikileaks articles:
http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/There_...net_censorship
http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/Wester...e_beginning%3F
http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/Banned..._dollars_a_day
http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/My_life_in_child_porn

Here's a 140 page document titled: "No Easy Answers; Sex Offender Laws in the US" by Human Rights Watch. It points out and refutes the flawed assumptions and statements with statistics from the Dept of Justice and Dept of Prisons that congress critters have used to pass this crap:

http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/fil...7webwcover.pdf

Here's a site that documents many of the children that have been charged with sex crimes (some as young as 5 years old!). Most get put on sexual predator lists for life, where people assume they are child rapists and murders. Their crimes are things like "you show me yours, I'll show you mine", playing doctor, streaking, mooning, consensual sex between bf/gf, pinching or slapping a classmates butt, in one case a 8-10yo was charged for adding a rule to a game of tag that girls could get out of the penalty box by raising their skirt...

http://cfcamerica.org/index.php?opti...id=35&catid=13

Even cops are complaining about all the violations they are forced to add to these lists, stating that they make them worthless.

Politically, it's very hard to fight this both for us and for Congress Critters without being painted as supporting child rapists, but the legislation is so egregious that it needs to be fought. Fascism is coming and it's wrapped in "protecting the children"

-t

[acptulsa]

Great info, tangent--thanks. If we could just be rid of the practice of children being tried as adults and get back to the old system of expunging the records of juveniles, it would be a blow to them and a good start for us.

[tangent4ronpaul]

It's more than children. Adults have been charged for urinating in public, soccer moms clicking an image of their kid who's swim suite fell off in the pool or a mom breastfeeding to add to the family photo album, a bf changing his fg's kids diaper was charged for molestation, and the list goes on and on...

"sexual preditors" - rrriiiigghhhtt!

-t

[He Who Pawns]

I agree that a lot of this is just entrapment. Half the people who show up on Dateline's "To Catch a Predator" are either half retarded, or so incredibly desperate to get laid that they would jump at any offer of sex, from anyone. It's not necessarily that they were even out to find a young person in the first place. A lot of the "perverted justice" people hang out in adult chat rooms, not teen chat rooms, and then they send pictures of hot high school cheerleader babes to these incredibly lonely guys, and then beg them to come over for sex.... is it any surprise that many of these guys actually go for it? It's probably the first sex offer they've had in years.

And of course, there is no actual victim, so the whole thing is nonsense. I would be seriously angry if this happened to someone I knew, like a relative or whatever. These people's lives are ruined.

[gls]

[tangent4ronpaul]

It gets better... YOU MIGHT BE A CHILD PORNOGRAPHER - and not even know it...

Ever get one of those notices that your personal/financial data may have been compromised? - you know identity theft...

From the 4th wikileak document I posted: (note - document was translated from German)

"Using a false identity and well-functioning credit card servers are then rented and domains purchased as an existing, unsuspecting person. Most of the time an ID is required and in that case they will simply send a forged document."

"As soon as the server is available, a qualified server admin connects to it via a chain of servers in various countries with the help of SSH on the new server. Today complete partitions are encrypted with TrueCrypt and all of the operating system logs are turned off. Because people consider the servers in Germany very reliable, fast and inexpensive, these are usually configured as HIDDEN CONTENT SERVERS. In other words, all the illegal files such as pictures, videos, etc. are uploaded on these servers - naturally via various proxies (and since you are still wondering what these proxies can be - I'll explain that later). These servers are using firewalls, completely sealed and made inaccessible except by a few servers all over the world - so-called PROXY SERVERs or FORWARD SERVERs. If the server is shut down or Someone logs in from the console, the TrueCrypt partition is unmounted. Just as was done on the content servers, logs are turned off and TrueCrypt is installed on the so-called proxy servers or forward servers. The Russians have developed very clever software that can be used as a proxy server (in addition to the possibilities of SSL tunneling and IP Forwarding). These proxy servers accept incoming connections from the retail customers and route them to the content Servers in Germany - COMPLETELY ANONYMOUSLY AND UNIDENTIFIABLY. The communication link can even be configured to be encrypted. Result: the server in Germany ATTRACTS NO ATTENTION AND STAYS COMPLETELY ANONYMOUS because its IP is not used by anyone except for the proxy server that uses it to route the traffic back and forth through a tunnel - using similar technology as is used with large enterprise VPNs. I stress that these proxy servers are everywhere in the world and only consume a lot of traffic, have no special demands, and above all are completely empty.

Networks of servers around the world are also used at the DNS level. The DNS has many special features: the refresh times have a TTL (Time To Live) of approximately 10 minutes, the entries usually have multiple IP entries in the round robin procedure at each request and rotate the visitor to any of the forward proxy servers. But what is special are the different zones of the DNS linked with extensive GeoIP databases ..."

"But what I have to report to you is much more significant than this, and maybe they will finally understand to what extent the public is cheated by the greedy politicians who CANNOT DO ANYTHING against child pornography but use it as a means to justify total monitoring. "

"But hackers have also obtained huge client lists of large companies and sold the email addresses to spammers.In order to send spam trojan-infected (zombie) computers are used. But zombie computers have yet another use: it will be used in a targeted fashion to steal identities. They even use the computer of the user whose identity is stolen to conduct credible transactions such as purchase of domains, etc. But that is not everything: the installed Trojans are sometimes used as a SOCKS proxy to upload CP. The Russians have even worked out a schema to use infected computer as a network combing these infected computers (each computer would be part of a huge, redundant cluster) as a kind of huge, distributed and remote servers can be (a kind of Freenet Project, however, by using infected computers as the nodes). I want to make one thing clear: if you have an email address, there is a possibility that there is child pornography on your computer because you have received CP advertising. And if your computer is not 100% safe against Trojans, viruses and rootkits, there is the possibility that your computer is part of the vast child pornography network. "

"Based on my descriptions so far it should be clear to anyone sensible reading this that filtering and censorship make absolutely no sense."

"As I have written so far, the whole promotion of child pornography is done via spam (or publisheded list of domains blocked by the police :-). The spam mails sometimes also come with images. Even if you do not read the emails and everything ends up in junk folders there is still the possibility that child pornography images are saved on the hard drive. A different situation is when the computer has become infected and is a zombie - then all doors are, so to speak, open and the computer can even be used for the active dissemination of child pornography. Those who buy child pornography find links in the spam ads - most of them will lead to portals. On these portals, but also in forums and newsgroups, there will be advertisements for security solutions that enable you to evade tracing AND FILTERING. There are commercial offerings for foreign, uncensored DNS servers but also for VPN solutions (eg www.strongvpn.com). In these VPN solutions an encrypted tunnel is established between the client and a server without logs, and under a false identity somewhere in the world - the connection may even go through more countries. Even if the (impossible) suggestion of Mr. Schünemann was implemented, there would be absolutely simple methods to circumvent it. Since Server 2008 Microsoft came out, there is virtualization. There are commercial offers where no child pornography is actually bought but a virtual workstation is a leased on which there is a great gift: a workstation full of videos and files ... The connection can be established very quietly via Windows Remote Desktop or VNC. No files are trasmitted between the computer of the customer and the server - only keyboard commands and screen content - usually in encrypted form and without the slightest trace about what you have viewed. Since the screen of a computer located e.g. in Russia can be displayed on a PC in germany, the customer will automatically bypass any filtering, censorship and surveillance by the German government. Well, the distributors of child pornography can even calmly sell virtual machines - against which Visa and MasterCard certainly will have nothing ... When the customer then connects to the virtual computer, he finds a nice file that is nothing else than a TrueCrypt Container for which he also received the password to open it. The container can also calmly sit on his home computer after transfer and because nobody knows what it is, he remains just a user like millions of others. The Russians have been producing complete solutions for about 4 years. In these case the business will not run dry. But the German government will spend the money of taxpayers and the economy for the irrational and expensive systems.

If you still haven't noticed: Technology is not the solution to child pornography. No filters, no censorship and no total monitoring can change this. "

he also goes into massive fraud that takes place by charging small amounts on massive numbers of stolen credit cards - because people rarely check their statements as well as using stolen identities for money laundering.

At least some in Congress must be somewhat aware of these things because they modified the laws to state that you had to have intent to access CP - so someone mailing it to you or you clicking a link and ending up on a site you didn't expect doesn't cut it. They also added a law about money laundering to the sex crimes laws.

But the author is right - the politicians are using fear and sensationalism to justify monitoring. That's what these laws are all about. There is another document on wikileaks somewhere that lists a whole bunch of reports done in other countries that spell out why trying to stop the distribution of this stuff via black lists is totally impractical. The main reason given is the number of new sites that come into existence every day.

His conclusions are that the only way to stop it is to go after the people distributing it. I don't get the inpression that anyone is making new material, with the exception of teenagers "sexting" each other or doing the web cam thing -and these occasionally get posted when teens break up.

Anyway, another sollution in search of a problem with a hidden agenda of monitoring and control with a lot of innocent people getting hurt in the process. You know, business as usual for Congress.

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

Ran into a few things today - for one, some countries are really ramping up monitoring to protect intelectual property. Expect similar legislation here in the future.

Found a site that has some really good analysis of countries that monitor and block Internet content and on what issues. Here's the write up for the USA and Canada:

http://opennet.net/research/regions/namerica

I didn't know the CDA and COPA (OK - so I didn't even know COPA existed till I read the article) had both been overturned by the supreme court. Learn something every day. It also goes into blocking/monitoring for IP, "national security" and computer security reasons. While first amendment wins are great, that we (USA) are the most monitored and blocked country in the world on a "national security" pretext is not.

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

Check out this bill that became law last year for an idea of the sheer size of this whole sex/thought crime police state:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-1738

forgot to add something about this. This bill was passed basically back to back to another that had one of those "whereas" statements for justification that basically said viewing "CP" would make people want to go out and rape kids. Yet this bill contains a section asking for a study (by the people enforcing/benefiting from the legislation) to determine to what extent viewing CP results in this anti-social behavior. In other words, they don't have a frickin clue if there is any relationship at all! - but asking those who benefit from a positive finding guaranties the answer they want.

This is the same logic as exposing someone to a "evil looking" black rifle will take control of a persons brain and make them run out and mow down innocent people in a shopping mall or a school.

No where do they even consider that a person with a predisposed attraction to children would naturally like photographs of naked children. No, the photo's turn the viewer into a predator.

A couple of other fallacies - the numbers both hyper-inflated and actual vs actual of children being victimised don't add up. If anything, the number of innocent people victimised by these laws dwarfs the size of the actual problem.

One of the lies perpetuated is that strangers regularly do this to kids. The truth is that in about 50% of cases it's a family member, in about 40% of cases its a acquaintance. Only in 10% of cases is it someone unknown to the "victim". And "victim" is a relative term here. In one case a 16yo girl went to jail for refusing to condemn her "attacker" who was a couple of years older than her in a consensual relationship.

The other big lie is "recidivism" - IE: those that repeat the offending behavior once caught, jailed and released. It's around 5-10%, and 50% of that is in the first year post release. almost all of it is within the first 3 years. It's the lowest re-offence rate of any criminal category. Criminals with a high prior criminal history are more likely to rape than a former sex offender. The whole thing is total BS!

sorry, but this $#@! just pisses me off!

Oh, and "sexting" - 20-30% of teens do it. Can you imagine the public outcry if they actually went after, jailed and put on lifelong "sexual predator" lists every teen that did this? Instead they do it very arbitrarily. Make examples out of people. I don't care what age you are - if you want to take a nude pic of yourself and send it to your significant other or someone you are flirting with - that's YOUR business. It shouldn't be a crime.

Sally Mann is a photographer and artist. Her work used to be considered art till this BS started. Her main subjects were her kids growing up, and sometimes not fully clothed... now she is considered a child pornographer. There is absolutely nothing "suggestive" or "exploitative" in her work. You can check it out here:

http://www.sallymann.org/ (WARNING! - sometimes the kids are not fully clothed!)




Come to think of it, growing up my parents regularly received magazines with pics of naked children. It was called "National Geographic". They also had coffee table books full of depictions of naked children that they would leave out for visitors to browse - they were collections of renaissance paintings. Congress cracked down on web sites of teen models that were dressed or at least in lingerie calling this child pornography - it put them out of business and probably some of them in jail. It has not stopped JC Penny or Sears from sending me pics of kids in underwear in somewhat suggestive poses in order to sell said underwear.

Another thing - another "whereas" states that a "victim" is re-victimized every time someone views that photo. And they are supposed to know and be so tramatized how? Considering that many of these "victims" were PAID models, posing with their parents concent and having fun doing it... I'm sorry, I'm just having problems seeing where the "victim" comes in...

The hypocrisy here is just dripping...

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

And of course, there is no actual victim, so the whole thing is nonsense. I would be seriously angry if this happened to someone I knew, like a relative or whatever. These people's lives are ruined.

Oh - the bill that passed (referenced) makes it quite clear that the sex cops are on a quota system - and they need to make busts to stay in the game and advance.

-t

[Dorfsmith]

The first is, where is the crime? This looks like entrapment. There was no 15 year old girl. There was no sex.

Didn't Judge Napolitano say that in one of his books? It's been a while but I seem to remember reading his take on that.

[DanHall4Freedom]

This is the first post I am making here and although I do not know much about the laws being passed (discussed here) in any specific depth I see it immediately just as I've been learning ever since I got involved in the Freedom Movement in very, very grassroots levels back during the primaries... the "fear base" propaganda used to manipulate the dumbed-down public for the sole sake of money games and power by our representatives in congress is entirely criminal as far as I am concerned. I am glad that America is beginning to wake up.

[angelatc]

This is the first post I am making here and although I do not know much about the laws being passed (discussed here) in any specific depth I see it immediately just as I've been learning ever since I got involved in the Freedom Movement in very, very grassroots levels back during the primaries... the "fear base" propaganda used to manipulate the dumbed-down public for the sole sake of money games and power by our representatives in congress is entirely criminal as far as I am concerned. I am glad that America is beginning to wake up.

I agree. They tell us these horror stories to keep us dependent on government.

[Josh_LA]

yes, I've always thought of this nonsense as entrapment.

(Entrapment seems to only happen in VICTIMLESS CRIMES)

Why is talking a crime? Don't parents have the obligation to protect and keep their children from talking and meeting strangers?

[He Who Pawns]

tangent4ronpaul, you make some good points.

and since when is a nude photo "porn"? if someone takes photo of a nude person or themselves nude, suddenly this is "porn" or "child porn"? isn't "porn" sexual in nature?

if some high school cheerleader snaps a pic of herself without a shirt on, or snaps a consensual photo of her friend in the shower, why is this "porn"?

[Josh_LA]

And of course, there is no actual victim, so the whole thing is nonsense. I would be seriously angry if this happened to someone I knew, like a relative or whatever. These people's lives are ruined.

like you said, people who get trapped are retarded anyway.

their lives are not ruined, if people care about their beliefs, they won't respect them anyway, if people don't care, it won't matter. People change and people make mistakes.

[Josh_LA]

tangent4ronpaul, you make some good points.

and since when is a nude photo "porn"? if someone takes photo of a nude person or themselves nude, suddenly this is "porn" or "child porn"? isn't "porn" sexual in nature?

if some high school cheerleader snaps a pic of herself without a shirt on, or snaps a consensual photo of her friend in the shower, why is this "porn"?

I believe there are laws that define lolita/erotica vs porn.

In my opinion it shouldn't matter, but I can't say much more, I may be a thought criminal or banned user next.

[Liberty Rebellion]

In regards to what tagent is talking about:

I work for a nation-wide ISP, not the biggest one in the country, but I know if we have a product that most likely the bigger boys have it too. There is technology in place that does deep package inspection of ALL traffic. It can even crack encrypted traffic, although it would disrupt the data stream since you can't really uncrack something (not yet at least) and would be apparent to the end-user.

It was initially being used to identify traffic types by protocol and then traffic shape the protocol that hogged the most bandwidth (bittorrent). Since the one guy in the Pacific Northwest, I think OR, sued Comcast for throttling his bittorrent traffic saying it was discrimination most ISP's are now going to a usage based system, wherein you are allowed so much bandwidth per 30 minutes. If you exceed this bandwidth limit your IP is tagged and if this happens during a time where bandwidth usage exceeds a certain threshold your will be traffic shaped until total network traffic subsides to below that threshold.

I won't delve into a complete discussion about my opinion of this technology, but I will say it's pretty cool and can has beneficial uses to network management. My only concern is when the government gets involved more with content filtering and monitoring it is SUPER easy to ID IP's that have visited certain websites. It's a simple report you can run on these devices.

My recommendation to you all would be to use encryption whenever possible and NEVER EVER assume that just because you are posting someplace on the Internet that you have complete anonymity; your ISP can and does see what websites you visit, and in general everything you do (unless it's encrypted). Case in point, in our training we were able to see a report on one IP address. This report showed every connnection to that IP address, what protocol was used, what websites were visited, how often, how much upstream and downstream bandwidth was used/session, etc etc.

Now, in the hands of a private company the only real violation that can occur there is if it starts using that information to generate advertisements geared towards you. However, with government coming into the picture, I can see reports being generated on, oh I don't know, how many people and whom are visiting "anti-government website A." With the thought crimes thing it gets even worse. Soon the may use the technology to say you intended to commit a crime based on the information you were looking at on the Internetz.

Anyways, I little off-topic I guess, but thought I'd share.

[akihabro]

See what religion does to people? That is one nasty keyboard. Yes my old one looked like that.

[akihabro]

tangent4ronpaul, you make some good points.

and since when is a nude photo "porn"? if someone takes photo of a nude person or themselves nude, suddenly this is "porn" or "child porn"? isn't "porn" sexual in nature?

if some high school cheerleader snaps a pic of herself without a shirt on, or snaps a consensual photo of her friend in the shower, why is this "porn"?

Apparently conservative Christian law makers flip out with this issue. I could never understand how in Christianity a nude body was sinful and you weren't suppose to lust after someone. Last time I checked lust=sex=more people to join your religion.

I guess possession of these photos makes you guilty as a child molester. About as guilty as someone who loves military style shooting games, owns a gun or more, watches movies with murders, etc. Yes lock them up they are going to be a cold blooded murder who goes on a rampage to shoot innocent civilians. I guess underage nude pics is illegal porn if someone underage has them. Some of these laws don't do much prevention.

Apparently this guy incriminated himself. I think in some states just talking to someone underage about sex is illegal, or maybe planning to meet.

[Dorfsmith]

tangent4ronpaul, you make some good points.

and since when is a nude photo "porn"? if someone takes photo of a nude person or themselves nude, suddenly this is "porn" or "child porn"? isn't "porn" sexual in nature?

if some high school cheerleader snaps a pic of herself without a shirt on, or snaps a consensual photo of her friend in the shower, why is this "porn"?

Exactly. Since when did nudity become porn? I'm a book dealer and on the rare occasion I sell Sally Mann, Jock Sturges, and David Hamilton books on ebay I never fail to get hate mail and death threats from people who are obsessed with banning all nudity. I don't get it.

[acptulsa]

So, why is it a teenager can't be trusted with a car? Because they have a little way to go before they're mature, right?

So why is it a teenager is trusted with a camera? Because a camera isn't heavy machinery that can develop deadly momentum, right?

So how is it that what a teenager does with a camera can get them branded for life? No more room for youthful indiscretion in our wonderful modern society? What a terrible, horrible shame that is...

[Kraig]

Exactly. Since when did nudity become porn? I'm a book dealer and on the rare occasion I sell Sally Mann, Jock Sturges, and David Hamilton books on ebay I never fail to get hate mail and death threats from people who are obsessed with banning all nudity. I don't get it.

Everytime I take a shower I am a PORN STAR. We are all porn stars underneath our clothes!

[tangent4ronpaul]

Exactly. Since when did nudity become porn? I'm a book dealer and on the rare occasion I sell Sally Mann, Jock Sturges, and David Hamilton books on ebay I never fail to get hate mail and death threats from people who are obsessed with banning all nudity. I don't get it.

I'm really not sure what the status is right now. That one overview article I found said that 2 of the major sex crimes laws had been overturned by the supreme court. Still, there are articles over in the civil rights sub forms about teens getting busted for sexting and that the written content of text messages could soon land them in jail. So much for erotica. The feds/Congress put the nude teen model and then the clothed teen model out of business (website wise - they still do fashon shoots). books like you are talking about were villified - but are still available and presumably legal. There is a web site called Met-Art that is similar but I understand they pulled all the pics of 14 and under models. Who knows what the current situation is.

I dug for hours looking for legislation and that was only the 110th Congress. What I was amazed at was how much of it there was! It would seriously take a semester just to figure out what the law currently is. it appears to be spread out all over 18 USC.

What is clear is that people are still getting busted for BS.

-t

[Dorfsmith]

All you need is an idiot jury and you can be convicted of child porn for taking a picture of your 1-year-old in the bath. It's happened before and it will continue to happen. They keep it so vague that anybody can be accused. When my son was a baby my wife wanted to take pictures of him in the bath and I said no way. I'm not even going to risk it. This is the sad world we live in.

[acptulsa]

All you need is an idiot jury and you can be convicted of child porn for taking a picture of your 1-year-old in the bath. It's happened before and it will continue to happen. They keep it so vague that anybody can be accused. When my son was a baby my wife wanted to take pictures of him in the bath and I said no way. I'm not even going to risk it. This is the sad world we live in.

Didn't expect the New Puritanism to come from the left, did you? But that's how it is when things come 'full circle'.