Major flaw in US constitution

[demolama]

I don't know about you guys but I do not want to go around biting into every piece of gold coin I have to make sure its real.... or comparing its size to make sure it hasn't been shaved... and who knows what it was mixed with... copper, zinc, lead... etc to give it that weight.

Pieces of Eight or the Spanish Dollar was in demand because it had a standard and you knew that the minted pieces came from a respectable mint... having anyone make their own coins and you never know what you'll end up with.

[Kraig]

Yes. Congress would debase our own currency if given the chance.
This is quite evident as of their disregard for our fiat currency today.
We can only have a free and prosperous society if we have honest money.
Money that is worth the same today as it will be worth 100 years from now.
Having a savings account would have a true meaning with stable money.

Also- I'd like to have an amendment that forbids the congress to accrue debts on behalf of the tax payers.
It can only spend what the states give them.
This would fix most of our economic problems.

That is a pretty good setup, especially if 3rd parties are allowed to use different currencies when that is their preference. I am starting to think we have been arguing over fluff.

[Kraig]

I don't know about you guys but I do not want to go around biting into every piece of gold coin I have to make sure its real.... or comparing its size to make sure it hasn't been shaved... and who knows what it was mixed with... copper, zinc, lead... etc to give it that weight.

Pieces of Eight or the Spanish Dollar was in demand because it had a standard and you knew that the minted pieces came from a respectable mint... having anyone make their own coins and you never know what you'll end up with.

That is true, with competing currencies you would have to take personal responsibility and research what you are using. We let anyone start a company and there are still plenty of trustworthy companies out there to choose from, you just have to do a bit of research to find out who they are.

[Truth Warrior]

I was referring to the power to tax (direct unapportioned taxes) for national defense and the "General Welfare".

I was referring to the BS Preamble:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, ensure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

[Kraig]

I was referring to the BS Preamble:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, ensure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Any chance you could stay on the topic of competing currencies and the the congressional power to coin money for this thread? Plenty of other threads can be made to talk about whatever else, I'm sure I would find them interesting too.

[WillieKamm]

Hamilton married into the Rothschild ( Bank of England ) family.

Elizabeth Schuyler?

[Truth Warrior]

Elizabeth Schuyler?

“Alexander Hamilton married into the Rothschild family December 14, 1780, Alexander Hamilton was born Alexander Levine, of Jewish lineage, in St. Croix, the West Indies. After changing his name and his geographical situs, he married Elizabeth Schuyler… [The Intimate Life of Alexander Hamilton, by Allan Hamilton 1910]
“[It has been reported that there are documents in the British museum that prove Alexander Hamilton received payment from the Rothschild’s for his dastardly deeds. Could this payment have been for his involvement in the establishment of a foreign bank in this country, and for convincing Congress to assume the States debts, which would have created a debt obligation binding the United States government and the States to the international bankers?]” (“The History Of Lawful Gold And Silver Legal Tender And The Debt Brought On By Unlawful Fiat Paper Money”)

[WillieKamm]

“Alexander Hamilton married into the Rothschild family December 14, 1780, Alexander Hamilton was born Alexander Levine, of Jewish lineage, in St. Croix, the West Indies. After changing his name and his geographical situs, he married Elizabeth Schuyler… [The Intimate Life of Alexander Hamilton, by Allan Hamilton 1910]
“[It has been reported that there are documents in the British museum that prove Alexander Hamilton received payment from the Rothschild’s for his dastardly deeds. Could this payment have been for his involvement in the establishment of a foreign bank in this country, and for convincing Congress to assume the States debts, which would have created a debt obligation binding the United States government and the States to the international bankers?]” (“The History Of Lawful Gold And Silver Legal Tender And The Debt Brought On By Unlawful Fiat Paper Money”)

That's very interesting and thanks for your prompt reply. I'm always willing to learn. It has been my impression that his wife Elizabeth Schuyler was of Dutch ancestry. Regarding Alexander Hamilton's parentage.


Rachel Fawcett was Alexander Hamilton's mother. She left her first husband, the abusive John Lavien, and later met James Hamilton, Alexander Hamilton's father. Rachel died in 1768 from fever.

James Hamilton, St. was Alexander Hamilton's father. He left Rachel and Alexander in 1766 after discovering that Rachel was still technically married to her husband John Lavien. Although Alexander never saw his father again, the two continued to write until James, Sr.'s death.


I don't see this sinister Rothschild conncection anywhere. If am wrong please show me with verifiable non Alex Jones type tin foil references.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us

[Truth Warrior]

That's very interesting and thanks for your prompt reply. I'm always willing to learn. It has been my impression that his wife Elizabeth Schuyler was of Dutch ancestry. Regarding Alexander Hamilton's parentage.


Rachel Fawcett was Alexander Hamilton's mother. She left her first husband, the abusive John Lavien, and later met James Hamilton, Alexander Hamilton's father. Rachel died in 1768 from fever.

James Hamilton, St. was Alexander Hamilton's father. He left Rachel and Alexander in 1766 after discovering that Rachel was still technically married to her husband John Lavien. Although Alexander never saw his father again, the two continued to write until James, Sr.'s death.


I don't see this sinister Rothschild conncection anywhere. If am wrong please show me with verifiable non Alex Jones type tin foil references.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us

You're welcome. I find this compelling if not definitive nor conclusive:

“Alexander Hamilton married into the Rothschild family December 14, 1780, Alexander Hamilton was born Alexander Levine, of Jewish lineage, in St. Croix, the West Indies. After changing his name and his geographical situs, he married Elizabeth Schuyler… [The Intimate Life of Alexander Hamilton, by Allan Hamilton 1910]

[anaconda]

If you follow Austrian economics you will know that congress never should have been given the power to coin money to begin with, not only that, but it should not have given this power to the states either. This power should and always should remain in the hands of the people directly via the free market, money should be completely untouched by any form of government. Not only would this have prevented congress from ever delegating this power to the Federal Reserve, the natural currencies that would have emerged in a free market would have been far superior even to the so called "gold standard" that was used before 1913.

I think most of the founders would agree with this in principle, especially Thomas Jefferson, but as great as their wisdom was they did not have access to the great work of Mises and others to learn from which we are now privy to - and they were not omnipotent. This is just one example of how we need to look forward rather than backwards, it doesn't make any sense to go back to the same exact document got us where we are today.

If you want to learn more about natural money, here is a good article from mises.org:

http://mises.org/story/3340

There is also a great lecture by Lew Rockwell that covers this called The Gold Dollar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ll4HS1QW9M

But isn't printing currency other than gold & silver coinage unconstitutional anyway? Isn't the problem with the Constitution elsewhere? Like, why is it unenforceable?

[Kraig]

But isn't printing currency other than gold & silver coinage unconstitutional anyway? Isn't the problem with the Constitution elsewhere? Like, why is it unenforceable?

My point is that even if it is enforceable, even if you don't let congress delegate the power to the federal reserve, it is still flawed because the best solution for the market is to allow the market to create it's own currencies.

[Truth Warrior]

Any chance you could stay on the topic of competing currencies and the the congressional power to coin money for this thread? Plenty of other threads can be made to talk about whatever else, I'm sure I would find them interesting too.

If you'll notice, I replied to a previous post directed to me. Isn't the topic Major flaw in US constitution ?

[Kraig]

If you'll notice, I replied to a previous post directed to me. Isn't the topic Major flaw in US constitution ?

..yeah one specific flaw but whatever

[Truth Warrior]

..yeah one specific flaw but whatever

Only one FLAW per thread is allowed, hunh? Whatever. When did you go on the payroll?

[Kraig]

Only one FLAW per thread is allowed, hunh? Whatever. When did you go on the payroll?

Forget it, this thread was just an epic fail, should have picked a better title.

[Truth Warrior]

Forget it, this thread was just an epic fail, should have picked a better title.

From the looks of things, so was the CONstitution.

'Lysander Spooner once said that he believed "that by false interpretations, and naked usurpations, the government has been made in practice a very widely, and almost wholly, different thing from what the Constitution itself purports to authorize." At the same time, he could not exonerate the Constitution, for it "has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." It is hard to argue with that.' -- Thomas E. Woods Jr

[torchbearer]

You wouldn't have to enforce a standard gold coin. the free market would go with it.
Just put in a penalty of death for any person, including government officials who distort the value of the standard coinage.
To be carried out by any willing person without trial if a vote of record is recorded.
Constitution enforced.

[Truth Warrior]

You wouldn't have to enforce a standard gold coin. the free market would go with it.
Just put in a penalty of death for any person, including government officials who distort the value of the standard coinage.
To be carried out by any willing person without trial if a vote of record is recorded.
Constitution enforced.

That merely brings up the "joke" OATH members of the US military are ALL REQUIRED to solemnly swear to uphold.

[torchbearer]

That merely brings up the "joke" OATH members of the US military are ALL REQUIRED to solemnly swear to uphold.

I don't have to swear an oath to carry out the law.
Just make it law, and no congressman will dare cross the constitution.

[Truth Warrior]

I don't have to swear an oath to carry out the law.
Just make it law, and no congressman will dare cross the constitution.

Don't they ALL take an OATH to uphold the CONstitution also? How's that working out?

How about a "law" ( so called ) just prohibiting crime across the board, under a MANDATORY penalty of death ? Granted, it just might get and be a bit messy for a couple of generations or so.

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly American criminal class except Congress." -- Mark Twain, 1894

[Mesogen]

I was referring more along the lines to the fact that the preamble begins with the words "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union" That's a grammatical $#@!up, because something can't be more perfect. It's either perfect or it's not.

Perfect in this context does not mean "without flaw" it means "complete." They wanted to form a more complete union than existed under the Articles of Confederation.

"We the People" is a LIE. They did no such thing.

Really. They should have said "We the people in this room..."

[Mesogen]

Don't they ALL take an OATH to uphold the CONstitution also? How's that working out?

It probably doesn't work out so well because they swear an oath while holding a book that tells them never to swear oaths.

[Truth Warrior]

Really. They should have said "We the people in this room..."

Index to the Antifederalist Papers
http://www.wepin.com/articles/afp/index.htm

[PaulaGem]

I've asked this question before. People who scream too loudly about gold and silver scare me, I suspect them of exploiting the fear of others. (This does not include Dr. Paul.)

Gold is not a rare metal, it is only rare in refinable forms at this time. We are in the midst of a world that is changing more radically and more rapidly than during the "industrial revolution". Computer science has put us there.

The next great shock will come when biotechnology becomes the standard method of manufacture. At that time I believe the price of gold will plummet because of biotech based refining techniques.

How could a stable currency be built on an unstable commodity?

[acptulsa]

The next great shock will come when biotechnology becomes the standard method of manufacture. At that time I believe the price of gold will plummet because of biotech based refining techniques.

Interesting. Don't know much about this. Have a link? I'm having trouble envisioning gold that isn't 'refinable'. I do know that it's an element, and short of using a collider to change the structure of it at the atomic level it can't be created. Biotech won't ever be a method of creating an element. I also know that there's very good reason to be scared of the state of the FRN right now. China could very well send it into collapse--and might just do so, if they see an advantage in it.

[PaulaGem]

Just remembering what I've read elsewhere. I should have said forms that are refinable in an economically and environmentally practical manner.

Gold occurs dissolved in seawater, and up here in the hills in colorado there are slag heaps full of it. Arsenic was used to refine the gold originally and just cleaning up these toxic heaps biochemically could yield tons of gold.

[acptulsa]

That will take time, and 'tons' is an overstatement. It could be slightly inflationary, but it won't yield enough fast enough to have a massive effect. Another 'cash4gold' type phenomenon would have more of an effect on the supply than that would.

[Kraig]

How could a stable currency be built on an unstable commodity?

That's why you don't put all your eggs in one basket and let people create and choose as many different currencies as they want.

[silverhawks]

I've asked this question before. People who scream too loudly about gold and silver scare me, I suspect them of exploiting the fear of others. (This does not include Dr. Paul.)

Gold is not a rare metal, it is only rare in refinable forms at this time. We are in the midst of a world that is changing more radically and more rapidly than during the "industrial revolution". Computer science has put us there.

The next great shock will come when biotechnology becomes the standard method of manufacture. At that time I believe the price of gold will plummet because of biotech based refining techniques.

How could a stable currency be built on an unstable commodity?

I'd imagine because if anything gold is going to become more stable as time goes on; up to a point. After all, it is a practical as well as a precious metal, currently used for a lot more than jewelry or investment and we seem to be finding more and more uses for it, which is going to drive the demand up rather than down. At least until we get functional and practical nanotechnological processes for assembling it at the atomic level...but at that point, I personally believe we will see a new Industrial Revolution on an un-paralleled scale...end of money, anyone? And most current research in that area seems to indicate that we will still find more uses for it, as the properties of elements seem to change at different atomic scales.

At first glance, biochemical sifting of waste for gold seems equivalent to the 49'ers panning for it; but that, or gold recycling from electronic scrap or waste electroplating could be a good business to get into.

[PaulaGem]

http://www.tms.org/Meetings/Specialt...ancemailer.pdf

10:30 AM
The Use of Biohydrometallurgy for Tails Retreatment in Mining and Smelting Enterprises of the Republic of Uzbekistan: M. Sagdieva1; S. Borminskii1; K. Sanakulov2;1Institute of Microbiology, AS of Uzbekistan, 7b. A. Kadiry St, 700128, Tashkent Uzbekistan; 2Almalyk Mining and Metallurgical Company, 58, A. Timur Av., 702400, Almalyk Uzbekistan

The modern defi ciency in source of raw materials of nonferrous,rear and noble metals raise a question of the possibility for searching new reserves of mineral raw-materials that the wastes of hydrometallurgical enterprises. In this connection we carried out investigations dealing with the use of biotechnological methods for fl otation tails retreatment in
Almalyk Mining and metallurgical company. On the basis of conducted experiments, the flotation tails were found to be used for retreatment by means of bacterial leaching approach
that was used for copper leaching and gold striping out of sulphide minerals containing copper and iron. It was determined the main parameters of Bioleaching and, on the basis of data obtained, the developed technology was used and tested in laboratory, pilot and semi-industrial experiments.

The results of conducted tests have shown that copper extraction amounted to 68-75%, sulphide mineral destruction of 78-82%, gold extraction with the use of thiosulphate leaching
from bacterially digested material of 85-90% and silver of 58-60%. Thus, the technology under investigation is of great perspectives for retreatment of the wastes in hydrometallurgical
enterprises and will allow extending the source of raw materials in Uzbekistan.

***** High percentages. Historic method yield very low percentages. Have not found more specific figures yet.