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Thread: Collectivist Thinking Is Rife in the USA

  1. #1

    Collectivist Thinking Is Rife in the USA

    Collectivist Thinking Is Rife in the USA




    The proclivity of some people to think in terms of collectivism, right here in these United States of American, is baffling to me. This is the country that was founded on the principle of individual rights-­everyone has them to, among other things, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.


    The announcement of this, in the US Declaration, follows the teaching of the great classical liberals, especially John Locke, who developed the theory of natural individual rights after it has been lurking about in various local regions and in the minds of less systematic thinkers for centuries. Even the ancient Greeks, contrary to some academic opinion, had been aware of the idea, mentioned in Aristotle’s Politics (as one he needed to counter as to defend his notion that the community must teach us virtues).


    Now we get to the 21st Century and still there are many prominent and not so prominent minds wedded to the notion that the “we” is superior to the “I,” even though the “we” is but various numbers of I. In human affairs, however, that isn’t so­-we aren’t grouped in the fashion of bee hives or termite and ant colonies. Our various communities and associations are only fitting if they may be joined or left without intimidation or coercion.


    What this idea­-so well acknowledge about many matters related to America by millions around the globe who would rather live here than anywhere else precisely because they can call their own shots and do not have to conform to the group to which they “belong”­-precludes, without much ambiguity, is that when some people decided something for themselves, this isn’t being imposed on others. If I like to wear orange shoes or shirts, nothing is force upon others by this peculiarity of mine. If I wish to imbibe every evening before I retire, there is nothing of this that constitutes an encroachment or imposition on others. If my friends and I want to play bridge on Sunday afternoons, millions of others can choose poker, or hiking or some spectator sport with which to bide their own time. There is no imposition afoot anywhere here.


    This right to life, this right to liberty, and this right to pursue one’s happiness is unabashedly individualistic, without in the slightest denying at the same time our thoroughly social nature. It’s only that our social relations, while vital to us all, must be chosen-­that is what makes the crucial difference.


    So then what are we to make of the following lament, voiced recently in my region relating to the gay marriage issue? “Americans have one of two choices: They can have gay marriage shoved down their throats by an autocratic judiciary, or they can express their views to their representatives and with a constitutional amendment end this nonsense once and for all.”


    Just look how bizarre this is: Sure, the Massachusetts Supreme Court affirmed the right of gays to get married. Did that shove anything down anyone’s throat? Not by a long shot, no more so than a court’s affirming the right to be free of enslavement or some other government imposed restriction shoves anything down anyone’s throat.


    Oddly enough, we hear this same lament from people opposed to free trade and globalization: governments entering free trade agreements are shoving things down people’s throats around the globe. Balderdash­-that is the only time government’s are doing something worthwhile and just, when they free up people, repeal bad old restrictions.


    Certainly no one is forced to get married in a society that affirms the right to get married, nor is anyone forced to marry any gay person in a society that protects the rights of gays to marry. One can just go about one’s own business and leave those folks to theirs. The idea that there is any kind of shoving down the throat going on is the bona fide nonsense, and a collectivist nonsense to boot.


    It is poignant, by the way, that it was the Massachusetts Supreme Court, by way of Judge Lemuel Shaw’s ruling in Commonwealth v. Hunt, a case involving labor relations, that affirmed that “Associations may be entered into . . . and the legality of such associations will . . . depend upon the means to be used for its accomplishment.” If those means are free of coercion, then they are legal.


    And this ruling was made-­in 1842!

    March 2, 2004



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Warrior View Post
    Oddly enough, we hear this same lament from people opposed to free trade [COLOR=#000000]and globalization: governments entering free trade agreements are shoving things down people’s throats around the globe. Balderdash*-that is the only time government’s are doing something worthwhile and just, when they free up people, repeal bad old restrictions.
    Yeah, gotta love that NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO, etc.

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul254.html
    http://citizen.typepad.com/eyesontra...ul-for-fr.html
    http://current.com/items/89734962/ro...aged_trade.htm

    I can't believe Lew posted this POS article.
    Last edited by LibertyEagle; 03-17-2009 at 07:19 AM.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  4. #3
    to the thread title, i so agree.
    Just this morning i heard a guy talking about how much he enjoyed the free press, but then went on to lament the disappearance of hardcopy newspapers and thought that there should be a move to ' allow them to operate at a loss, by being supported with community [funds]'.

    Wha'??!?
    The bigger government gets, the smaller I wish it was.
    My new motto: More Love, Less Laws

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post


    He didn't. DUH!

    http://www.mahindrausa.com/
    Last edited by Truth Warrior; 03-17-2009 at 08:02 AM.

  6. #5
    There is no such thing as an individual natural-right. Natural-rights were not created psychologically or sociologically because theoretical science had yet to develop the social sciences during the time of John Locke or later on during the time of our Founding-Fathers. I mean, where was Kant during the time of John Locke?
    So, natural-rights came about during the science of natural law which means such rights actually reduced down physically like DnA to become the bipartisan conscience of every human soul.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Emanuel Watkins View Post
    There is no such thing as an individual natural-right. Natural-rights were not created psychologically or sociologically because theoretical science had yet to develop the social sciences during the time of John Locke or later on during the time of our Founding-Fathers. I mean, where was Kant during the time of John Locke?
    So, natural-rights came about during the science of natural law which means such rights actually reduced down physically like DnA to become the bipartisan conscience of every human soul.
    "CONveniently" ignoring your European brother Aristotle, eh?

  8. #7
    Collectivist thinking is rife on RPFs too.(IMHO)
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Warrior View Post
    "CONveniently" ignoring your European brother Aristotle, eh?
    The world of Greece existed on 3 continents.
    It is our Christian faith and religion that we have been secularized by not atheism, the theoretical science and the field of social sciences. These are all new things, relatively speaking.
    The Protestant Catholics didn't protest against the traditional Catholiics because they desired to be individuals. Likewise, the Puritan Christians didn't flee from Europe because they desired to be individuals. Liberty is a prerequisite requirement of being happy. Happiness is a prerequisite requirement of being human.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Warrior View Post
    Who did, then? Your link to your apparently favorite fettish, tractors, is certainly not the source.
    Last edited by LibertyEagle; 03-17-2009 at 09:29 AM.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Collectivist thinking is rife on RPFs too.(IMHO)
    Yeah, especially by select anarchists.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Yeah, especially by select anarchists.
    http://www.kubota.com/f/products/tractor.cfm

  14. #12
    Collectivism is rampant wherever critical thinking is not.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Yeah, especially by select anarchists.
    They aren't nearly so frightening as the archists, in my experience. (especially the statist and genocidal ones )
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Young Paleocon View Post
    Collectivism is rampant wherever critical thinking is not.
    +1
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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