Wow, I am now an anarcho-capitalist

[socialize_me]

I would like to first apologize to those I lambasted over believing in anarchism. I was wrong. I am convinced no system of government work. None. Obama has spent over $36 billion a DAY since his inauguration and is asking for an additional $3.55 TRILLION in his budget request which includes $1 trillion tax increases. All of this is happening in a Republic, the supposed optimal form of government. Turns out the fallacy of "Taxation WITH representation" being a better alternative to oligarchical rape and pillage systems we used to live under. This $#@! Obama is doing would never have been dreamt of by Kings or Emperors...and it's happening right in front of us!!

If anything, a Republic is the worst form of government to live under. If Democracies are "tyrannies of the majority", then what the $#@! are Republics? They're nothing more than tyrannies of the minority!! You have 435 members of congress + 1 president + 9 justices who all legislate, execute, and adjudicate for 300+ million??? A republic is an oligarchy!! Not only that but the false sense of "representation and freedom" is complete horse$#@! and is probably the only reason why our system is still standing. If we had an oligarchy, they would be thrown out on their asses a long time ago. Today, because we think the People have the power, we sit smug on our asses.

I'm sick of this $#@!.

[Pennsylvania]

http://social.bureaucrash.com

[MsDoodahs]

It happened to you, as it happened to me....

[torchbearer]

Move to somalia, I hear the lack of a constitutional government has done wonders for them.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I would like to first apologize to those I lambasted over believing in anarchism. I was wrong. I am convinced no system of government work. None. Obama has spent over $36 billion a DAY since his inauguration and is asking for an additional $3.55 TRILLION in his budget request which includes $1 trillion tax increases. All of this is happening in a Republic, the supposed optimal form of government. Turns out the fallacy of "Taxation WITH representation" being a better alternative to oligarchical rape and pillage systems we used to live under. This $#@! Obama is doing would never have been dreamt of by Kings or Emperors...and it's happening right in front of us!!

If anything, a Republic is the worst form of government to live under. If Democracies are "tyrannies of the majority", then what the $#@! are Republics? They're nothing more than tyrannies of the minority!! You have 435 members of congress + 1 president + 9 justices who all legislate, execute, and adjudicate for 300+ million??? A republic is an oligarchy!! Not only that but the false sense of "representation and freedom" is complete horse$#@! and is probably the only reason why our system is still standing. If we had an oligarchy, they would be thrown out on their asses a long time ago. Today, because we think the People have the power, we sit smug on our asses.

I'm sick of this $#@!.

Wow you bring up a good point.<IMHO>

[FreedomFighter8008]

You're way off the mark man. What you see today is not a Republic -- it's a total bastardization of everything our Founding Fathers intended.

[Mini-Me]

Thinking back on older threads, I think my head just exploded from disbelief.

[torchbearer]

You're way off the mark man. What you see today is not a Republic -- it's a total bastardization of everything our Founding Fathers intended.

true.

[Conza88]

SO what exactly convinced you?

Just seeing Obama be bad? Yeaaaaaaah, umm Bush was the same if not worse.

What we currently have, the Constitution allowed to happen (Power corrupts and it wasn't able to chain men down, as was intended) It could be improved, like the Articles of Confederation, but ultimately they would be subverted. And STATE judges are inevitably going to find in favor more to the STATE. Not exactly rocket science..

"This $#@! Obama is doing would never have been dreamt of by Kings or Emperors...and it's happening right in front of us!!"

Yes. Probably. But for some reason I don't think you came to that conclusion through Hoppe's Democracy: The God that Failed.

Convince me this is genuine. Better yet don't, I don't care - just don't identify yourself as one.

It's like Hannity calling himself a Libertarian.

For the record: if you actually converted, for reals, you a non-archist then, or are you an anarchist, as you described and associate yourself with every other traditional socialist out there?

Are Libertarians 'Anarchists'? by Murray N. Rothbard

[sdczen]

Welcome to the Anarcho-Capitalist club.

Hopefully more people will realize that ANY government is inherently bad and takes away liberties. The fact is we can Dress our government up anyway we want to, but in the end it will continue to grow corrupt, steal individuals wealth, murder, rape and pillage with it's one-size-fits-all hammer.

[sdczen]

Move to somalia, I hear the lack of a constitutional government has done wonders for them.

Why go all the way to Somalia to get controlled by their defacto government. The Somali warlords/government may not have a seat in the UN, but they receive aid money and control their population through force just the same as any other 5th world country (with, or without a 'technical' government). It's semantics

What would happen if the Somali populous was armed and agreed to a Non-aggression pact, private property and free trade?

[zach]

Our government today is like Walmart's version of good, home-cooked food.

[pcosmar]

What we have today is the result of people NOT holding the Elected officials responsible. It is the fault of people long before my lifetime and all through it.
Had the people gone and dragged Wilson and the whole crowd in Washington out into the street and publicly hanged them there would be No Federal Reserve today.
There would likely not have been a depression.
There would be no Firearms act of 1934
There would be no Income tax.
We very well could have stayed out of WW1

The power was supposed to be in the hands of the people.
The people have dropped the ball.

[sdczen]

The power was supposed to be in the hands of the people.
The people have dropped the ball.

It all started with the Civil War and Lincoln. "The People" were acting responsibly and within the rights to secede from an overly tyrannical federal government. Unfortunately, the government killed them all and scared the remaining generations into complacency.

[sdczen]

Our government today is like Walmart's version of good, home-cooked food.

Yeah it looks good when you're eating it, except it doesn't digest so well.

Government = Irritable Bowel Syndrome

[pcosmar]

It all started with the Civil War and Lincoln. "The People" were acting responsibly and within the rights to secede from an overly tyrannical federal government. Unfortunately, the government killed them all and scared the remaining generations into complacency.

I would generally agree with that too
The point is, The people allowed this by not holding the government in check.
The examples I used relates to today's issues directly.
But I agree that it started even sooner.

I used Wilson because he was manipulated be the same Fabian Society that is quite active and in control today.

[ChaosControl]

I've nearly become an anarcho-capitalist myself, but I haven't quite made the jump yet.

[eOs]

Lol @ anarchy. I'll just form a government in your society and you won't be able to stop me beotch!

[emazur]

What we have today is the result of people NOT holding the Elected officials responsible. It is the fault of people long before my lifetime and all through it.
Had the people gone and dragged Wilson and the whole crowd in Washington out into the street and publicly hanged them there would be No Federal Reserve today.
There would likely not have been a depression.
There would be no Firearms act of 1934
There would be no Income tax.
We very well could have stayed out of WW1

The power was supposed to be in the hands of the people.
The people have dropped the ball.

The Founders foresaw the potential problem:

As Benjamin Franklin was leaving the building where, after four months of hard work, the Constitution had been completed and signed, a lady asked him what kind of government did the convention create. A very old, very tired, and very wise Benjamin Franklin replied; "A Republic, ma’am if you can keep it."

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance - Thomas Jefferson

What caused the problem:

“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” -Alexis de Tocqueville

[Josh_LA]

If anything, a Republic is the worst form of government to live under.

I agree, people are not against democracy or dictatorship, only when it's bad for them.

People want the dictatorship of the law in US, because they happen to agree with the law. People want dictatorship and religious worship of the US Constitution because they beleive it fits their idea of what God gave them.

[heavenlyboy34]

I would like to first apologize to those I lambasted over believing in anarchism. I was wrong. I am convinced no system of government work. None. Obama has spent over $36 billion a DAY since his inauguration and is asking for an additional $3.55 TRILLION in his budget request which includes $1 trillion tax increases. All of this is happening in a Republic, the supposed optimal form of government. Turns out the fallacy of "Taxation WITH representation" being a better alternative to oligarchical rape and pillage systems we used to live under. This $#@! Obama is doing would never have been dreamt of by Kings or Emperors...and it's happening right in front of us!!

If anything, a Republic is the worst form of government to live under. If Democracies are "tyrannies of the majority", then what the $#@! are Republics? They're nothing more than tyrannies of the minority!! You have 435 members of congress + 1 president + 9 justices who all legislate, execute, and adjudicate for 300+ million??? A republic is an oligarchy!! Not only that but the false sense of "representation and freedom" is complete horse$#@! and is probably the only reason why our system is still standing. If we had an oligarchy, they would be thrown out on their asses a long time ago. Today, because we think the People have the power, we sit smug on our asses.

I'm sick of this $#@!.

I give you a hearty welcome to the club, brother!

[socialize_me]

SO what exactly convinced you?

Just seeing Obama be bad? Yeaaaaaaah, umm Bush was the same if not worse.

What we currently have, the Constitution allowed to happen (Power corrupts and it wasn't able to chain men down, as was intended) It could be improved, like the Articles of Confederation, but ultimately they would be subverted. And STATE judges are inevitably going to find in favor more to the STATE. Not exactly rocket science..

"This $#@! Obama is doing would never have been dreamt of by Kings or Emperors...and it's happening right in front of us!!"

Yes. Probably. But for some reason I don't think you came to that conclusion through Hoppe's Democracy: The God that Failed.

Convince me this is genuine. Better yet don't, I don't care - just don't identify yourself as one.

It's like Hannity calling himself a Libertarian.

For the record: if you actually converted, for reals, you a non-archist then, or are you an anarchist, as you described and associate yourself with every other traditional socialist out there?

Are Libertarians 'Anarchists'? by Murray N. Rothbard

Get off your high-horse for once. I don't have to prove $#@! to you, or explain myself. Does everyone have to come to the conclusion of anarcho-capitalism the way you did? I don't understand...so because I used to be a "socialist" by anarcho-capitalists' standards, that makes me illegitimate to ever be "accepted" (as if I really give a $#@! what other anarchists think about my beliefs, let alone seek their approval)???

I'm damn sure you are not a life-long anarchist. Rothbard wasn't. Most, if not, every person born since we have had government were "socialists". The reasoning for "modern" anarchy arises from the fact that we see the flaws in the State that are consistent throughout any system, and are incompatible with freedom. I think the best way to become an anarchist is not to always have been one. Through my journey of ideological wandering, I've bounced around different theories and finally settled on anarchism after being disgusted with the rest. If you have always been an anarchist, then more power to ya. We all can't be as amazing as you. As I said before, Rothbard was not a life-long anarchist...I think it's impossible to be when you're in elementary school getting spoonfed American patriotism bull$#@! at every page turn. Unless you had the capacity to advocate Austrian Economics as a 10 year old, you were a socialist at one point. I'm damn sure Rothbard wasn't reading Mises when he was making his school lunch.

If you ever hope to win hearts/minds more than just one at a time, or a handful in your lifetime, Conza, then I suggest you change your attitude and the way you go about it. Your discontent for assimilation for newcoming anarchists, as if you're somehow the "Chairman" of the Anarchist "Party", will be counterproductive. If you think you have everything figured out politically and economically, then you can move onto adjusting the way you go about treating new converts or those leaning strongly in your direction. Your hostility isn't at all productive and is in many ways discriminatory. It's almost as if it's a form of intellectual racism. "You're not one of us, you'll never be like one of us, you're just a poser or a wanna-be."

Piss off until you can get over yourself.

[socialize_me]

I give you a hearty welcome to the club, brother!

Thanks. If only $#@!s like Conza would bless me with their divine grace...

[heavenlyboy34]

Move to somalia, I hear the lack of a constitutional government has done wonders for them.

This has been debated already in the other anarcho capitalist threads. Statists/Archists like yourself lost that debate too.

[socialize_me]

You're way off the mark man. What you see today is not a Republic -- it's a total bastardization of everything our Founding Fathers intended.

What I see is a Republic. It's genuine...these guys are protected in their power. The President enjoys, likely 8 years of uninterrupted rule. Senators, once elected, settle in with 6 consecutive years and are re-elected time and time again.

This is a Republic. Going into the November elections, Congress had an 8% approval rating...EIGHT $#@!ING PERCENT--and we had a re-election rate of something like 87%!!! It's so easy to see why this happens too. Everyone in America hates Congress practically and thinks they could do a better job, yet the thing is THEIR own Congressmen/women don't suck. It's YOUR Congressmen/women that do, mine are cool because they're in my state. $#@! everyone else..

THAT'S the problem. We are a Republic. The fact that it operates like $#@! does not mean it's a different form of government, as if it really matters what form you have. They all end up heading towards the same goal: Socialism. They all seek more power regardless of the system. The titles like a "Republic" give the ILLUSION that it's a good government. ALL government progresses into tyranny. If we have a Second Amendment, and if Jefferson wrote that the "Tree of Liberty must be replenished with the blood of patriots and tyrants," then it's inevitable that EVERY government ever created or will be created, will eventually or has been destroyed and remade. This means every system devised of all different shapes, sizes, and color have failed, and the Founders knew this. They included the 2nd Amendment for this reason as they themselves knew the $#@! would hit the fan someday.

Tell me, why should I accept government that progressively kills the people and enslaves them?? If every government has collapsed in history, then it seems inhumane and completely immoral to try and defend, or create or replace, government! Because that means people along the way will suffer until the suffering becomes insufferable...why the hell should I accept THAT? Why should my family and friends undergo those evils for decades until we finally do something about it only to create a new government that will do it to our posterity??

[sdczen]

This has been debated already in the other anarcho capitalist threads. Statists/Archists like yourself lost that debate too.

but but but, the government is so benevolent & pure! How can this be? // Sarcasm

[LibertyEagle]

Socialize_me, we are so far from the Republic that our Founders envisioned, that there is hardly any resemblance. For one, if we hadn't been such dumbasses and insisted on direct election of senators, our state reps could have yanked out any U.S. senator who started acting like an unconstitutional jackass.

Ron Paul wants us to reinstate the Constitution. That is far from what we have right now in our government.

You're right that government, any government, will always drift towards more power. That is why our Founders said we had to remain educated and vigilant and to hold them to the Constitution. We didn't and that's why we are where we are today.

[sdczen]

Lol @ anarchy. I'll just form a government in your society and you won't be able to stop me beotch!

That would be an interesting experiment. I'm guessing a society of well armed, freedom loving Anarcho-Capitalists would take issue with your attempt. I would also wager a guess that it wouldn't workout so well for anyone who attempted to establish a government. Magic 8-Ball sees them hanging from a tree (and not like a monkey)

[socialize_me]

Socialize_me, we are so far from the Republic that our Founders envisioned, that there is hardly any resemblance. For one, if we hadn't been such dumbasses and insisted on direct election of senators, our state reps could have yanked out any U.S. senator who started acting like an unconstitutional jackass.

Ron Paul wants us to reinstate the Constitution. That is far from what we have right now in our government.

You're right that government, any government, will always drift towards more power. That is why our Founders said we had to remain educated and vigilant and to hold them to the Constitution. We didn't and that's why we are where we are today.

If we're so far from the Republic the Founders envisioned, I can understand that...but we are still a Republic nonetheless. The fact that it's more toxic than our mortgage backed securities doesn't mean it's somehow a different form of government. I don't even know why I'm still trying to classify things as a "republic" or an "oligarchy" as if they're any different. ALL government is the same. They seek more and more power and in the end it turns out to be $#@!ty. We could have a benevolent dictator, but after years of his dynasty, it could be nothing that he envisioned. Who cares? The fact is, a "tolerable" Republic can only exist if it's abolished and rebuilt every generation. Only then can you have a Republic the Founders envisioned...I'm still not in favor of that system. It provides ambitious people with power and the means to carry out those desires. Who the $#@! cares what type of government it is?

[Andrew-Austin]

Lol @ anarchy. I'll just form a government in your society and you won't be able to stop me beotch!

Stealing and coercion is wrong.