They don't, it's just states and D.C. that vote.Originally Posted by cheapseats
Fair enough. Why do Puerto Ricans vote in our presidential primaries? Our final outcome, it must be owned, was much dictated by what happened in the primaries.
I observe, further, that Puerto Ricans have voted against statehood for the third time. Do WE have any say in whether Puerto Rico becomes a state? Do WE have any say in public policy in Puerto Rico? Dr. Phil would say that this quasi-aligned (or is it quasi-controlled?), UNCOMMITTED arrangement must be workin' for them. Like shackin' up instead of gettin' hitched, maybe.
Q:
Why does Puerto Rico participate in the presidential primary and not the general election?
A:
The United States Constitution grants voting privileges in the general election to the states and the District of Columbia only, not to U.S. territories.
With 55 pledged delegates at stake, residents of Puerto Rico will head to their local election polls June 1 and cast ballots in the Democratic presidential primary. But for most of Puerto Rico's estimated 3.9 million residents, that’s where their presidential voting activity will end.
Unless they have official residency in a U.S. state or the District of Columbia, people living in Puerto Rico, and all other U.S. territories, are not permitted to vote in the general election in November. The Office of the Federal Register, which oversees the Electoral College, says on its Web site that "the Electoral College system does not provide for residents of U.S. Territories, such as Puerto Rico, Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands and American Samoa to vote for President." Those with official domicile in a state or Washington, D.C., can vote by absentee ballot or travel to their home state to vote.
The hurdle for U.S. territories is in Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution, which, in the matter of electing a president, states: "Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress."
As we've said before, the electors, not voters, actually cast the ballots that will determine who becomes president. The Constitution designates electors for states and the District of Columbia only. D.C. gained the right to vote in the general election by way of the 23rd Amendment in 1961. In order for residents of a territory to gain the right to vote in the general election, the territory would have to gain statehood, or the Constitution would have to be amended. These are not easy tasks, and over the years residents of Puerto Rico haven't always embraced the idea of becoming the 51st state.
Though recognized as a U.S. territory, the Caribbean island is actually a commonwealth with its own constitution. In 1998, citizens of Puerto Rico voted against statehood for the third time, in favor of keeping their current status. Under this form of government, Puerto Rico residents are recognized as U.S. citizens, but they don't pay federal income taxes and they cannot vote in presidential elections. But that could change. In late April, a bill to allow residents of the island to officially vote on whether to become a state passed a congressional committee for the first time. Previous votes on statehood were not authorized by the U.S. government.
Despite being excluded from the general election, territories are allowed to participate in the presidential primary and caucus process. The Federal Register further explains: "The political parties may authorize voters in primary elections in Territories to select delegates to represent them at the political party conventions. But that process does not affect the Electoral College system." Already this year, American Samoa, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Guam and the Puerto Rican Republican Party have held caucuses or primaries.
-D'Angelo Gore
Clarification, May 16: Puerto Ricans do not pay federal income taxes, but they do pay Social Security and Medicare taxes. Our original article did not make the distinction clear.
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec...te_in_the.html
We may have multiple state seccessions before 2012.
This is what I think, though. I think that an attempt by multiple states to secede would incite panic>>violence>>Civil War.
But ONE new state? I am possessed by a clarity and certainty that I cannot explain that the time is RIGHT NOW for one new state. An experiment, in Mr. Change's first year.
I joined I'm-not-sure-which aspect of the Jefferson State Project. Someone who joined before me commented that he loved the idea and was completely on board, but that it probably didn't have a snowball's chance in hell. I commented that Jefferson State is the most logical idea that's been proffered this whole Campaign Season - and that it has a snowball's chance in Tahoe, in February.
Would anyone besides myself seriously consider moving to Jefferson, if statehood is a fait accompli? I have my eye on Eureka, thanks to this thread. A king's ransom for a view of the sea.
Last edited by cheapseats; 01-21-2009 at 09:46 PM.
I would sell every non essential and move in a heartbeat. If Ron was Governor it would be twice as sweet.
The Creature from Jekyll Island:
We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!
Wouldn't making D.C. a state be against the Constituion (as if it's followed anyway)?
From the sites blog:
Getting back to reality...
Now that some of the euphoria has worn off, we can see that there is huge interest in this concept. Now the work begins.
I am in the process of adding newly registered Committee Members to the list. I have a multitude of email to answer, 99% positive. A lot of out of area folks want to help with petitions or in any way they can. We appreciate your offers and will hopefully be able to take you up on your offers. This is what I call citizenship in action.
If you aren't happy with the way your country is going, then you do something to change it. This is where we are. Why should we be tossed about by every whim of a politician or special interest group? Hah, we are a special interest group. Right. Our interest is in keeping our jobs or keeping our businesses going or stating a new venture.
Leave something to the politicians and they have to kill it. Then, they can ride to the rescue and do twice as much damage trying to save it.
If you are happy with the direction our country is going then I would expect you to be against our ideals. Let us be solution oriented. Looking to centralized government hasn't brought many solutions, just more regulation, more taxes and more ways for Uncle to get into our business.
So here we are. Leo and I will be working together within the Grange to formulate a plan to bring about the changes we are looking for. If nothing else is accomplished, we will be assembling a political force with more power than if we work individually.
A constitution is on the agenda. A Constitutional Convention would be in order. Give us a few days to get more organized, while holding down our real jobs, and we will post the information as we go and get more people involved.
All of your suggestions are seen and heard and appreciated. Negative comments get thought through and filed.
Stay in touch and keep the faith.
Brian Petersen
The Creature from Jekyll Island:
We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!
It didn't happen with West Virginia seceeding from Virginia during the Civil War. Lincoln let that illegal act happen.
Then again, Virginians today, seemed to want no part of WV. SO it may be a blessing.
Salute:
The American Dream, Wake Up People, This is our country! <===click
"All eyes are opened, or opening to the rights of man, let the annual return of this day(July 4th), forever refresh our recollections of these rights, and an undiminished devotion to them."
Thomas Jefferson June 1826
Rock The World!
USAF Veteran
I thought Israel was the 51st state. they already have two senators (Lieberman and Schmumer)
seriously, Upper Michigan has long wanted statehood, and New York City at one time wanted to be the state of Roosevelt. and Texas has some provision where it can break up into 5 states if it so chooses.
I could care less if NoCal and Southern Oregon want to become their own State. Let them, considering California is broke, it would be nice to get rid of NoCal and their ass Government. They can take Sacramento with them which has been California's downfall. Believe me, no freedom movement would want to move their because they would have to take that crap Government with them.
Our Governor, the Terminator is suing our state legislators right now because they refuse to take pay-cuts, balance the state budget and cut projects off the table so the State won't go bankrupt. You heard it here first, the State of California will get a bailout from Washington, D.C. guaranteed.
PROTEST VOTER 2012
Proud supporter of people with integrity.
"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
-- Benjamin Franklin at the signing of the Declaration of Independence.
LOL especially with the party hacks Feinstein and Pelosi in the senate and NO Jefferson State wants nothing to do with Sacramento. They propose Yreka as the new capital.
p.s. heard today through a coworker that someone they knew recieved an IOU as payment for thier unemployment check. Not sure on the details on it but it is already in the making and unfolding.
Burn, baby burn!!!
Last edited by Pauls' Revere; 01-27-2009 at 11:54 PM. Reason: spelling
The Creature from Jekyll Island:
We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!
Are there any members of this Board who live in the area that proposes to become Jefferson State?
according to the location indicator Klamath does.
The Creature from Jekyll Island:
We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!
UPDATE:
http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/1221289.html
Bill Maze is pushing this out of Visalia.
The Creature from Jekyll Island:
We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!
**CALL TO ACTION**
For those in Northern California and Southern Oregon!
PRE-CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION SLATED!
When will you have a chance to be a part of history like this? Wish I lived in one of the counties proposed to become our 51st State.
Jefferson Action Committee (JAC)
“Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and the Republic for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster, and what has happened once in 6,000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to the Constitution, for if the American Constitution should fail, there will be anarchy throughout the world.”~Daniel Webster
Call to Action: Pre-Constitutional Convention Slated
Date: April 18, 2009
Time: 10:00 AM
Place: Yreka, CA
The Jefferson Action Committee is seeking qualified individuals to represent their respective county as a delegate for the possible inclusion in the proposed state of Jefferson.
Those to be considered as delegates are requested to submit a letter of intent (via email OK) to become a delegate and to list their qualifications for such a project.
Participants will be required to make a commitment of time and resources to the project to see it to its fruition so dedicated and committed persons need only reply.
Those counties considered will be those included in the proposed map, with the possibility of some adjoining into eastern Oregon and northwest Nevada.
http://www.jeffersonstate.com/action.html
The Creature from Jekyll Island:
We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!
Meatwasp does. I hope and hope it happens, but no Sacromento please
Jefferson State wants NOTHING to do with Sacramento or Salem for that matter.
Is there anybody on this board who can become a delegate to help create our
51st state! According to the site you need to live in one of the counties on the proposed map of Jefferson State.
The Creature from Jekyll Island:
We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!
There are currently 23 states that have succession movements. But I'm more concerned with Obama's supposedly mis statement in the primary "57 states"
Hope alone won't float this boat, but it is far from hopeless. On the contrary, this ship of state is YAR compared to the I-use-the-term-loosely-United States.
It is economically, ethically, logically and principally sound, nothing short of brilliant. A clean slate . . . I'm THERE.
Not to mention except I will, when I first heard about this, I looked into Eureka and discovered that I could by a Victorian Bed & Breakfast, six bedrooms/seven baths, for less than I could buy a house in Los Angeles.
Will I freeze? I am more than a quarter of a century in Los Angeles, thick-skinned but thin-blooded. On the other hand, I hail from Wisconsin . . . and this is NOTHING, if not about getting back to our roots.
Why would anyone want to become a state and actually join this crappy union. You would have no sovereignty, you would join the list of beggars for federal crumbs and enforcers of federal tyranny. I would not join, I would secede.
The original American patriots were those individuals brave enough to resist with force the oppressive power of King George. I accept the definition of patriotism as that effort to resist oppressive state power. The true patriot is motivated by a sense of responsibility, and out of self interest -- for himself, his family, and the future of his country -- to resist government abuse of power. He rejects the notion that patriotism means obedience to the state.
Congressman Ron Paul 5/22/07
[QUOTE=cheapseats;2061897]Hope alone won't float this boat, but it is far from hopeless. On the contrary, this ship of state is YAR compared to the I-use-the-term-loosely-United States.
Being positive by hopeing also works, but I will certainly sign the petition.
where is the cut off in southern oregon for the jefferson state I live in Coos County
Curry, Coos, Douglas, Josephine, Jackson, Klamath and Lake Counties in Oregon.
Mendocino, Humboldt, Del Norte, Glenn, Tehama, Trinity, Siskiyou, Plumas, Shasta, Lassen and Modoc Counties in California.
Me. By WHEN must I live in one of the Jefferson State counties, that's what I want to know. I have just confirmed that MOVERS will come to pack me up on the 27th of this month, but it is difficult to imagine setting up residency in Jefferson before June. Like everyone else, I am tired. Overwhelmed by crapola and underwhelmed by character is a very dispiriting combination.
May I ask what county?
I'm thinking that the people of the City of Washington in the District of Columbia need to declare their sovereignty and kick the politicians out.
The ultimate test of a man's conscience may be his willingness to sacrifice something today for future generations whose words of thanks will not be heard. - Gaylord Nelson
Be the "Change" you want to be...
When I got shoved into political awareness a few years back, I contended that the American People are not as stupid as politicians and executives think. That may be, but they are also far more ignorant than I imagined.
Secession is essentially negative, conceptually. EMOTIONALLY. When you ponder that the quote-unquote Credit Crisis is really and has always been a CONFIDENCE Crisis, when you ponder the housing bubble, when you ponder our invasion of Iraq, it becomes impossible to disregard the EMOTIONAL psycho-babble factor.
Secede, pull out, break up . . . boo hoo, not THAAAAT.
A 51st state is ADDITION. America is all about MORE. It speaks to optimism and a fresh start.
Jefferson State does NOT have to line up to beg for federal crumbs.
Jefferson State can be in the vanguard of WE'LL DO IT OURSELVES, the hallmark of American ingenuity and stick-to-it-ive-ness.
Apart from all the states that currently exist that weren't constitutional (illegally broken off from another state, never admitted, etc etc)
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
John Adams
Trinity County
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