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Thread: What did Goldwater do wrong?

  1. #1

    Question What did Goldwater do wrong?

    Let's list everything Goldwater did wrong so that we can examine these items so that we don't end up repeating them.
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  3. #2

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    He mentioned liberty without throwing in the meat of hating communists.
    Definition of political insanity: Voting for the same people expecting different results.

  4. #3

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    said he would throw a nuclear warhead inside the kremlin.
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  5. #4

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    He threatened to shrink the government. Sound like someone else we know?

  6. #5

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    He was seen by most people as a neocon, and he did make a few bellicose statements that might have given that impression.

  7. #6

    Smile

    Compared to Reagan who presented a similar message in a friendly manner, Goldwater came across as a meaner hotter personality.

    Friendly wins.

  8. #7

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    Goldwater was really sunk by his comments about nuclear war, which LBJ hit him hard on (ie, Daisy Ad.) I see this one as a pretty easy problem to avoid.
    “One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation.” - Thomas Brackett Reed

  9. #8

  10. #9

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    Yes, I think inspiration is a big part of it. Reagan and Obama are/were both considered inpirational. It probably doesn't matter what they say, since people like their ability to convey a positive message.

    If this is true, inspirational president trumps substance, RP would never win.



    FF

  11. #10

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRey View Post
    He was seen by most people as a neocon, and he did make a few bellicose statements that might have given that impression.
    What are you talking about? Neocons didn't even exist then.
    “I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,”
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes … what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    ” -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=pB5JgzBVHN0

    The Property Basis of Rights

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangeley View Post
    Goldwater was really sunk by his comments about nuclear war, which LBJ hit him hard on (ie, Daisy Ad.) I see this one as a pretty easy problem to avoid.
    Yeah, it was that ad. I remember the day it ran. Let's just say, my parents being big Goldwater supporters, were not happy campers.

    The ad was brilliant actually. It fed on people's fears of us getting nuked.
    “I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,”
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes … what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    ” -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=pB5JgzBVHN0

    The Property Basis of Rights

  14. #13

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    My history teacher said that Goldwater said he wished he could saw off the Northeast US and watch it float out to sea or something. (Because it's a liberal area) Ha!

  15. #14

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    Supported getting into nuclear "hot war" with the Soviet Union.
    "Self-imposed limits on sovereign power can disarm mistrust, but provide no guarantee of liberty and property beyond those afforded by the balance between state and private force." - Anthony de Jasay

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  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    What are you talking about? Neocons didn't even exist then.
    Not by name, but the ideology itself has been around for at least fifty years, when it was just called Straussianism.

    I'm not saying Goldwater was one, but that perception existed.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRey View Post
    Not by name, but the ideology itself has been around for at least fifty years, when it was just called Straussianism.

    I'm not saying Goldwater was one, but that perception existed.
    Well, the thing is Buddy, that Goldwater was not an advocate of empire building, as opposed to Straussians. That I knew of anyway.
    “I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,”
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes … what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    ” -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=pB5JgzBVHN0

    The Property Basis of Rights

  18. #17
    Member Bro.Butch's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    You are asking a question of people, who in the majority of cases weren't even alive. He wasn't an INSIDER, hence "saw off the N.E." where they were HQed. He defeated Nelson Rockefeller for the nomination among others. I know it gets old to some, but truth is truth. The main media was controlled "way back" in 1964. IMO he was the last "non-insider" to gain the nomination of the two largest partries...

    Too many overlook the importance of free coverage by the major television networks. They mold the "majority" opinion of the nation. Their bosses decide who gets that free coverage.

    Media Caught Lying: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iW5kOB1pmg

    How The Elite Control Politics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTahZE4q90U

    It will be a massive undertaking. However, it could be done. Grassroots activism, positive local media, and paid advertising can defeat them...

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by AbolishTheGovt View Post
    Supported getting into nuclear "hot war" with the Soviet Union.
    Huh? No he didn't. Back in those days the Soviets were the empire builders and they were overtaking country after country. Soviet spies were in our own country and at all levels of government, our colleges and our media. So yeah, Goldwater thought they were a threat and thought we shouldn't act like pussies and let them walk all over us. So, when you wonder what happened to our schools and our media, there's your answer.

    It was LBJ who pushed the nuclear angle. Fear-mongering at its best.
    “I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,”
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes … what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    ” -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=pB5JgzBVHN0

    The Property Basis of Rights

  20. #19

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    Sen. Barry Goldwater wrote in his book With No Apologies: "In my view, the Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power: political, monetary, intellectual, and ecclesiastical. All this is to be done in the interest of creating a more peaceful, more productive world community. What the Trilateralists truly intend is the creation of a worldwide economic power superior to the political governments of the nation-states involved. They believe the abundant materialism they propose to create will overwhelm existing differences. As managers and creators of the system they will rule the future."

    Excerpted from:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission

    I really liked Barry, but the above just seems, shocks and strikes me as just a little too NWO-ish.
    Last edited by Truth Warrior; 12-16-2008 at 03:31 PM.

  21. #20

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    This might be more productive if we looked at what he did RIGHT. He did get the Republican nomination, after all. And it sure didn't happen by magic. There was a huge amount of hard, SMART, work, done by a ton of volunteers and campaign staff. They learned how to play the game and they played it better than their opposition. What I was told by someone who was there, is that they plain overwhelmed them with numbers. Yes, way back then there was funny business at the straw polls too. BUT, the media was better, but still horrible; the voting public was not as nearly as dumbed-down.
    “I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,”
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes … what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    ” -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=pB5JgzBVHN0

    The Property Basis of Rights

  22. #21
    Member Bro.Butch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Huh? No he didn't. Back in those days the Soviets were the empire builders and they were overtaking country after country. Soviet spies were in our own country and at all levels of government, our colleges and our media. So yeah, Goldwater thought they were a threat and thought we shouldn't act like pussies and let them walk all over us. So, when you wonder what happened to our schools and our media, there's your answer.

    It was LBJ who pushed the nuclear angle. Fear-mongering at its best.
    I don't want to get thrown off here Mr. Moderator, however I must reprimand you. "shouldn't act like pussies" Is completely Politically INCORRECT ! You must be as old as I am

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bro.Butch View Post
    I don't want to get thrown off here Mr. Moderator, however I must reprimand you. "shouldn't act like pussies" Is completely Politically INCORRECT ! You must be as old as I am
    lol. Probably, sir. I was a kid when Goldwater ran for President. My Mother was a delegate for him.

    And... it's MS. Moderator. Yes, and I was absent the day they taught political correctness.
    “I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,”
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes … what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    ” -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=pB5JgzBVHN0

    The Property Basis of Rights

  24. #23
    Member Bro.Butch's Avatar
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    I apologize "MADAM" Moderator, I too was a mere child in those GOOD OLE DAYS...

  25. #24
    Member malkusm's Avatar
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    From the Wiki page on Goldwater:

    "His defeat allowed Lyndon Johnson and the Democrats in Congress to pass the Great Society programs, but the defeat of so many older Republicans in 1964 also cleared the way for a younger generation of American conservatives to mobilize.

    Get ready to mobilize.

  26. #25

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    Mal... you're BACK.
    “I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,”
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes … what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    ” -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=pB5JgzBVHN0

    The Property Basis of Rights

  27. #26
    Member malkusm's Avatar
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    I never left, I've just been lurking more

  28. #27

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    I think most democrats would point to this:


    Civil Rights Act of 1964

    Although majorities in both parties voted for the bill, there were notable exceptions. Republican senator Barry Goldwater of Arizona voted against the bill, remarking, "You can't legislate morality." Goldwater had supported previous attempts to pass Civil Rights legislation in 1957 and 1960. The reason for his opposition to the 1964 bill was Title II, which he viewed as a violation of individual liberty. Most Democrats from the Southern states opposed the bill, including Senators Albert Gore Sr. (D-TN), J. William Fulbright (D-AR), and Robert Byrd (D-WV). Goldwater went on to secure his party's nomination for the presidency, and in the ensuing election, Goldwater won only Arizona and five of the Deep South states, two of which (Alabama and Mississippi) had not voted Republican since the disputed presidential election of 1876.

    Title II

    Outlawed discrimination in hotels, motels, restaurants, theaters, and all other public accommodations engaged in interstate commerce; exempted private clubs without defining the term "private."


    There's an excellent Goldwater documentary done by HBO, I would suggest giving it a watch.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Let's list everything Goldwater did wrong so that we can examine these items so that we don't end up repeating them.
    To the OP, I think this is a great question to ask, but I think the better question is:

    "Let's list everything Reagan did wrong so that we can examine these items so that we don't end up repeating them"

    Mainly because:

    1. Reagan was elected
    2. He didn't practice what he preached
    3. More current GOPer's identify with and idolize Reagan

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrwiizrd View Post
    There's an excellent Goldwater documentary done by HBO, I would suggest giving it a watch.
    Do you know the name of it?
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    Has YOUR Congressman committed to voting AGAINST The Internet Sales Tax?


  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by malkusm View Post
    From the Wiki page on Goldwater:

    "His defeat allowed Lyndon Johnson and the Democrats in Congress to pass the Great Society programs, but the defeat of so many older Republicans in 1964 also cleared the way for a younger generation of American conservatives to mobilize.

    Get ready to mobilize.
    http://www.yaf.com/

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