What is your membership status in the Campaign for Liberty

[Austin]

This poll will help determine whether or not part of the problem of the CFL is the lack of membership activity.

[Kludge]

As of a couple weeks ago, NotA.

[Austin]

As of a couple weeks ago, NotA.

Ah, blast. I forgot to put that option on there.

What reason(s) do you have for lack of compliance?

[Kludge]

What reason(s) do you have for lack of compliance?

Uninterested in their blog.

[Austin]

Uninterested in their blog.

Are you also uninterested in utilizing their tools (lol) for the movement, or just unimpressed with them? Do you feel they aren't the vehicle for the movement at all, i.e. poor representation of the grassroots?

What, if anything, would you change so they better represent the grassroots.

[torchbearer]

district coordinator, and state co-coordinator, though i mostly just let the other guy handle the state... i help with connections.

[Kludge]

What, if anything, would you change so they better represent the grassroots.

1) Grassroots has ongoing projects and I have my own education projects. CFL's idea of "getting involved" is to (and I'm quoting from the frontpage of CFL's website)
"• Receive action alerts
• Network with others to
fight common battles
• Educate yourself so you
can educate others"

I can do that here, FFS! If they have something in particular they want to do, they need to set specific goals (something with an immediate and visible impact -- not xxx precinct leaders!) and post them on their website.

2) The entire website is vague and unclear. I don't know what exactly they're doing or what they intend to do. It comes off as a cult -- an attack on the status quo followed with (and again, I'm quoting CFL's own page) "Will you join us?" Especially since they're expecting dues, they ought to tell us what's going to happen with the money. I don't give up hundreds of dollars out of faith -- I am entitled to specific reasons, not "change", "hope", and "country first"!

3) They ought to quit posting controversial blog posts until they have a clear agenda and purpose. Having "leaders" on the website posting information I disagree with makes me question what the CFL intends to be and if their leaders are in line with that intention.

[Austin]

1) Grassroots has ongoing projects and I have my own education projects. CFL's idea of "getting involved" is to (and I'm quoting from the frontpage of CFL's website)
"• Receive action alerts
• Network with others to
fight common battles
• Educate yourself so you
can educate others"

I can do that here, FFS! If they have something in particular they want to do, they need to set specific goals (something with an immediate and visible impact -- not xxx precinct leaders!) and post them on their website.

2) The entire website is vague and unclear. I don't know what exactly they're doing or what they intend to do. It comes off as a cult -- an attack on the status quo followed with (and again, I'm quoting CFL's own page) "Will you join us?" Especially since they're expecting dues, they ought to tell us what's going to happen with the money. I don't give up hundreds of dollars out of faith -- I am entitled to specific reasons, not "change", "hope", and "country first"!

3) Quit posting controversial blog posts until you have a clear agenda and purpose. Having "leaders" on the website posting information I disagree with makes me question what the CFL intends to be and if their leaders are in line with that intention.

Excellent. All legitimate concerns. Hopefully this thread will spawn some more constructive criticism, and maybe, just maybe, it will produce some results.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Lack of membership activity all over the country is a MAJOR problem!

But lets put that into perspective... - a bit of history:

C4L is announced and then sits on it's hands for months waiting for the convention after Ron Paul drops out of the race - meanwhile people loose interest, drift away, many Meetups close so we loose contact with people, etc.

Then they step on attendance for the march (that Paul asked for) by announcing the convention at the absolute worst possible moment - causing many to cancel.

Then the web ("social networking") site was supposed to be up a month before the convention - but that got pushed back to the convention, and got pushed back again till a month after the convention when it really launched in a less than fully functional format that is still being worked on.

There was the dog and pony show - er convention that was good for installing some "raw, raw" into the crowd, but little more - and the contracted out training that went well...

Right after the convention the blog launched and through someones brain fart, only signed up people via e-mail addresses rather than setting up accounts. Most of these people didn't sign up again (name, address, e-mail, phone) when prompted a month or so later when they finally got that functionality in and "launched" the site.

The "nobody minding the store" impression when new sign ups boasted user names like "kill *******" and "offthe jews", etc. despite postings here about it, e-mails and voice mails being left for staffers this was allowed to go on for weeks.

Then at user prompting they redesigned the site graphically and came up with something many have said was worse than what was being replaced.

Then there was their first major action where they really had a chance of turning over a bunch of Congressional seats - and they totally botched it - from publicizing it so badly that over half of supporters didn't know there was an action, no fund raising ticker, no feedback on what was accomplished and focusing on home printed fliers and a radio ad or two - while blowing off the effective newspaper ads.

Those Slim Jims and the fliers for Congressional voting record and for the FED protest both hyped joining C4L at the expense of the focus of what was trying to be accomplished - obviously in an attempt to reclaim supporters their prior bad decisions had caused to walk or drift away.

And now they are reaching out to the grassroots rank and file to gain members, yet again.

what am I forgetting - oh yeah:

Ignoring feedback from here and many other places where supporters told them they would have nothing to do with the C4L if the same people who ran the PCC ran this organization - then putting those same people in charge of C4L.

The overall atmosphere of secrecy, being hard to contact, and not getting back to people - just like the PCC.

A consistent "do it all in house" attitude and blowing off many offers of help by very talented people.

The failure of the precinct leaders program largely due to the $35 fee, the yearly requirements and that asinine NDA people have to sign.

Keeping the large grassroots infrastructure at arms length instead of becomming a big tent like we expected.

Oh and they have announced a long list of plans, none of which have seen the light of day yet.

Am I forgetting anything?

I think the above is a pretty accurate and complete history of the C4L.

So why aren't people flocking to join up? - You tell me.

-t

[newyearsrevolution08]

Lack of membership activity all over the country is a MAJOR problem!

But lets put that into perspective... - a bit of history:

C4L is announced and then sits on it's hands for months waiting for the convention after Ron Paul drops out of the race - meanwhile people loose interest, drift away, many Meetups close so we loose contact with people, etc.

Then they step on attendance for the march (that Paul asked for) by announcing the convention at the absolute worst possible moment - causing many to cancel.

Then the web ("social networking") site was supposed to be up a month before the convention - but that got pushed back to the convention, and got pushed back again till a month after the convention when it really launched in a less than fully functional format that is still being worked on.

There was the dog and pony show - er convention that was good for installing some "raw, raw" into the crowd, but little more - and the contracted out training that went well...

Right after the convention the blog launched and through someones brain fart, only signed up people via e-mail addresses rather than setting up accounts. Most of these people didn't sign up again (name, address, e-mail, phone) when prompted a month or so later when they finally got that functionality in and "launched" the site.

The "nobody minding the store" impression when new sign ups boasted user names like "kill *******" and "offthe jews", etc. despite postings here about it, e-mails and voice mails being left for staffers this was allowed to go on for weeks.

Then at user prompting they redesigned the site graphically and came up with something many have said was worse than what was being replaced.

Then there was their first major action where they really had a chance of turning over a bunch of Congressional seats - and they totally botched it - from publicizing it so badly that over half of supporters didn't know there was an action, no fund raising ticker, no feedback on what was accomplished and focusing on home printed fliers and a radio ad or two - while blowing off the effective newspaper ads.

Those Slim Jims and the fliers for Congressional voting record and for the FED protest both hyped joining C4L at the expense of the focus of what was trying to be accomplished - obviously in an attempt to reclaim supporters their prior bad decisions had caused to walk or drift away.

And now they are reaching out to the grassroots rank and file to gain members, yet again.

what am I forgetting - oh yeah:

Ignoring feedback from here and many other places where supporters told them they would have nothing to do with the C4L if the same people who ran the PCC ran this organization - then putting those same people in charge of C4L.

The overall atmosphere of secrecy, being hard to contact, and not getting back to people - just like the PCC.

A consistent "do it all in house" attitude and blowing off many offers of help by very talented people.

The failure of the precinct leaders program largely due to the $35 fee, the yearly requirements and that asinine NDA people have to sign.

Keeping the large grassroots infrastructure at arms length instead of becomming a big tent like we expected.

Oh and they have announced a long list of plans, none of which have seen the light of day yet.

Am I forgetting anything?

I think the above is a pretty accurate and complete history of the C4L.

So why aren't people flocking to join up? - You tell me.

-t

great points

well maybe we can work on a grassroots form of the cfl and go from there.

I work for myself actually so I might just get going on something. If anything just for my local efforts BUT allow for the ability for others to duplicate as well.

The "official" everything so far has given many of us headaches, is it rons fault? nope but no matter who is to blame or not blame we still need to get going either way.

We need local, state and national efforts and not simply based on one candidate or one person in general.

great post by the way.

[evilfunnystuff]

only signed up people via e-mail addresses rather than setting up accounts. Most of these people didn't sign up again (name, address, e-mail, phone) when prompted a month or so later when they finally got that functionality in and "launched" the site.

so thats why i could never log in

i had to make a new account and never understood why considering i was gettin the emails it also explains why the people who i know signed up dont show when i look for local members ...aaarrrrggg

[evilfunnystuff]

great points

well maybe we can work on a grassroots form of the cfl and go from there.

I work for myself actually so I might just get going on something. If anything just for my local efforts BUT allow for the ability for others to duplicate as well.

The "official" everything so far has given many of us headaches, is it rons fault? nope but no matter who is to blame or not blame we still need to get going either way.

We need local, state and national efforts and not simply based on one candidate or one person in general.

great post by the way.

you should check out this site they have a "holographic" structure and are pretty unique might give you some ideas lots of good reading over there
http://www.freedom-force.org/

[JoshLowry]

1) Grassroots has ongoing projects and I have my own education projects. CFL's idea of "getting involved" is to (and I'm quoting from the frontpage of CFL's website)
"• Receive action alerts
• Network with others to
fight common battles
• Educate yourself so you
can educate others"

I can do that here, FFS! If they have something in particular they want to do, they need to set specific goals (something with an immediate and visible impact -- not xxx precinct leaders!) and post them on their website.

2) The entire website is vague and unclear. I don't know what exactly they're doing or what they intend to do. It comes off as a cult -- an attack on the status quo followed with (and again, I'm quoting CFL's own page) "Will you join us?" Especially since they're expecting dues, they ought to tell us what's going to happen with the money. I don't give up hundreds of dollars out of faith -- I am entitled to specific reasons, not "change", "hope", and "country first"!

3) They ought to quit posting controversial blog posts until they have a clear agenda and purpose. Having "leaders" on the website posting information I disagree with makes me question what the CFL intends to be and if their leaders are in line with that intention.

They will have a forum soon!!! I've been waiting for them to roll out forums for quite some time because I'd like to share some of my ideas with others.

The blog function is great because obviously DailyPaul just wasn't cutting it for many of us.

I also know there were talks of a daily broadcast for news of the day. BTM doesn't have Dr. Paul available for them whenever they need content ya know...

Can't forget about that store where you can actually buy CFL gear!

They're catching on, I'm telling ya!

In all seriousness. Anyone could have pointed five links out from a single domain name and it would have had more of an impact than the CFL site if it was advertised as heavily. Rather than the CFL send you out to already established grassroots networks, everything points in.

I'd love to hear what the total server hosting and administration runs on a monthly basis. It's $250 a month plus volunteer hours on this site.

What is everyone's salary? Who all is on the payroll?

I know these are tough questions but they'd be doing themselves a favor to answer them.

I'm still not sure why they won't link to the forums, ideas, and grassroots volunteers that operate here.

[hotbrownsauce]

Scratch 1 vote for e-mail list only and add 1 to Non-Paying member. Thanks
voted wrong (2 times in a row now. jeez!)

[Matt Collins]

I'd love to hear what the total server hosting and administration runs on a monthly basis. It's $250 a month plus volunteer hours on this site.

How many members do you have active on this thing? I can't imagine it costing that much. I run a forum with 15k members (not all active) and only spend like $30/month. www.GM-Diesel.com if you want to check it out.

Although I think we may have had this conversation before.

What is everyone's salary? Who all is on the payroll?

I know these are tough questions but they'd be doing themselves a favor to answer them.

Well not just that, but how about an organizational structure chart? Who is in charge? Who answers to who? Who is responsible for what?

I'm still not sure why they won't link to the forums, ideas, and grassroots volunteers that operate here.

Have you asked them? if I had to guess it's because they don't want dissent or a bitchfest. In otherwords they don't want honest and open disucssion. This should be evident by the way they treated some of the people at the CFL training session in MSP.

I can't say that I completely blame them because many people in this movement are indeed certifiable but there is no reason to blanket kill the flow of information, ideas, and disucssion, just because a few people don't know what is appropriate disucssion and what isn't.

[tangent4ronpaul]

They will have a forum soon!!!

ummm... how about THIS forum? - why do they allways have to re-invent the wheel?

I've been waiting for them to roll out forums for quite some time because I'd like to share some of my ideas with others.

lol! - if you are expecting to share some ideas with them about good ways to run a forum - expect then to say they will definitely be in touch and then you will never hear from them again. Been there, done that - different area though...

The blog function is great because obviously DailyPaul just wasn't cutting it for many of us.

There were some rumors about Daily Paul being brought into the official PCC fold and then a lot of posts disappearing all of a sudden...

I also know there were talks of a daily broadcast for news of the day. BTM doesn't have Dr. Paul available for them whenever they need content ya know...

A WEEKLY broadcast has been suggested to them over and over - dating back to perhaps March '07 ...

Can't forget about that store where you can actually buy CFL gear!

They're catching on, I'm telling ya!

Umm - yeah... if so, lets hope they get a different buyer than the PCC had so we actually get good prices this time.

In all seriousness. Anyone could have pointed five links out from a single domain name and it would have had more of an impact than the CFL site if it was advertised as heavily. Rather than the CFL send you out to already established grassroots networks, everything points in.

Agree with you! - This isn't very "grass roots"...

I'd love to hear what the total server hosting and administration runs on a monthly basis. It's $250 a month plus volunteer hours on this site.

What is everyone's salary? Who all is on the payroll?

I know these are tough questions but they'd be doing themselves a favor to answer them.

I'm still not sure why they won't link to the forums, ideas, and grassroots volunteers that operate here.

Hard questions and they need to be answered!

It's pretty pathetic that for the most part who worked for the PCC and who now works for the C4L is a deep dark, secret!

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

Just a blimp for this thread and the other one - - someone PLEASE sticky these 2 threads!

We need to *REVOLT!*

-t

[Roxi]

precinct leader, i agree with many points above... i do like the q&a section although its very slow at this point.... i also like the education tools and the ability as a precinct leader to get one stop info for the community, makes flyer drops way easier... although in my situation, EVERYONE who lives here shops at my store because its the only one for 25 miles so I get most of them that way when i can

[WRellim]

NOTA.

Why?

Because I don't believe they have a CLUE what they are actually trying to achieve (other than a "jobs" program for a select few former campaign staffers) -- and regardless, I believe they have already demonstrated complete incompetence to achieve anything even if they DID have a clue.

As a result, I wouldn't entrust them with a spare nickel.


And, as others have cited on here the blog posts seem to hover around a sycophantic "cult" around Ron Paul (which I've had more than enough of) -- and yet when they DO rarely post something not directly related to RP, then they go off the deep end into things that make them appear more than a bit "wacko" and thus useless as a site to refer people to.


Finally, nearly ALL of the original "goals" that the organization was supposedly going to pursue (educational materials, candidate support, etc) have failed to materialize.

Seriously.



P.S. Plus, the logo and website (and thus the "image" of the whole thing) look so amateurish that it appears to reinforce the media's concept of the RP movement being a bunch of teenage geeks working out of their parents' basement.

[LittleLightShining]

2) The entire website is vague and unclear. I don't know what exactly they're doing or what they intend to do. It comes off as a cult -- an attack on the status quo followed with (and again, I'm quoting CFL's own page) "Will you join us?" Especially since they're expecting dues, they ought to tell us what's going to happen with the money. I don't give up hundreds of dollars out of faith -- I am entitled to specific reasons, not "change", "hope", and "country first"!

I agree with this. For instance, in order to become a PL you have to commit to doing certain things-- attend party meetings, do outreach activities... yet there is no way to record what you do. There are no easily accessible tips and tools for the person who signs up who has no experience whatsoever.

HOWEVER, this is what makes the local and state organization so important. This is one of my personal goals as County Coordinator-- to provide a support system and practical advice to the folks in my county and elsewhere in the state who need encouragement.

Then the web ("social networking") site was supposed to be up a month before the convention - but that got pushed back to the convention, and got pushed back again till a month after the convention when it really launched in a less than fully functional format that is still being worked on.

The website is still in beta mode, but I agree it lacks functionality. My biggest pet peeve with the site so far is the lack of a bulk-mailing mechanism for our state and county coordinators to contact all members at once rather than spending 2 hours emailing people individually.

Also from what I understand there is no forum in the works. I don't think this is a big deal. The q & a section is there on the website. In Vermont we're building our own website which will have a forum.



Right after the convention the blog launched and through someones brain fart, only signed up people via e-mail addresses rather than setting up accounts. Most of these people didn't sign up again (name, address, e-mail, phone) when prompted a month or so later when they finally got that functionality in and "launched" the site.

The state coordinator has access to all of these contacts and their email addresses. Right now this is what we're working on in Vermont-- getting a hold of these folks and letting them know that we are organizing, we have plans and we want them to be involved. In many ways we have to overcome the slowness of HQ but the best way to do that is to get people fired up again by showing them that you're working towards a goal. If the main website and HQ can't provide that yet, we on the state level we certainly can and should.


Then there was their first major action where they really had a chance of turning over a bunch of Congressional seats - and they totally botched it - from publicizing it so badly that over half of supporters didn't know there was an action, no fund raising ticker, no feedback on what was accomplished and focusing on home printed fliers and a radio ad or two - while blowing off the effective newspaper ads.

Those Slim Jims and the fliers for Congressional voting record and for the FED protest both hyped joining C4L at the expense of the focus of what was trying to be accomplished - obviously in an attempt to reclaim supporters their prior bad decisions had caused to walk or drift away.

I think that the majority of states aren't organized enough yet to have taken full advantage of promoting these projects.


The overall atmosphere of secrecy, being hard to contact, and not getting back to people - just like the PCC.

I haven't had that problem. In fact I was easily able to get in touch with Debbie Hopper and get our state chapter an interim coordinator so that we could use the momentum we still have to round up all those non-dues-paying members and get our state chapter off the ground.

I genuinely could not understand why this organization which was supposed to be about the grassroots was making it so vaguely difficult to achieve state chapter status. The process is-- have enough PL's (because the PL system works) to then be assigned an interim state coordinator. Once you have an interim coordinator you can have the contact info for the non-dues-paying members and actual emails for the dues-paying members who probably haven't logged in since they signed up.

I had to explain that we have an active core group of RP supporters that worked really hard during the primaries, got absolutely no support whatsoever from the PCC and we are working now to build the C4L here. HOWEVER, how do we recruit a "sufficient"(whatever that means because I still don't know) number of PL's if we can't get in touch with people who are obviously interested enough to enter their information? THOSE are the folks we need to recruit as PL's.

Debbie was great and after talking with her she assigned us an interim state coordinator (who we as a group had already decided we wanted as our interim coordinator) and now we have access to the tools.


A consistent "do it all in house" attitude and blowing off many offers of help by very talented people.

This is why it's important to be active locally. Locally is where all the work is to be done. Locally is what the PL system is all about. Organize on the state, district and county levels and utilize your assets. Don't wait for orders from HQ. Take the ball and play.


The failure of the precinct leaders program largely due to the $35 fee, the yearly requirements and that asinine NDA people have to sign.

I think they learned a lesson giving all that PL info out during the PCC. It's a very good system and it ended up being used by other campaigns-- like Obama's. So however much I didn't like sending more money to Virginia I do understand that I'm getting something of value for it.

I agree with you about the NDA. The requirements are way too vague and overwhelming sounding with no support whatsoever. Again, as I said in my response to Kludge, this is why we need to be organized locally.


-t

great points

well maybe we can work on a grassroots form of the cfl and go from there.

Use the website as a training ground, fill out the PL information, take advantage of all the tools they have to offer. Take all that info and get together with like minded people and decide how you're going to take your state back. Become involved in your parties-- whatever party you feel connected to-- and bring the Constitution with you.

If we want this to be a grassroots effort we have to make it one. We can't sit around and complain about how the C4L isn't allowing us to be grassroots.

[tangent4ronpaul]

>> Right after the convention the blog launched and through someones brain fart, only signed up people via e-mail addresses rather than setting up accounts. Most of these people didn't sign up again (name, address, e-mail, phone) when prompted a month or so later when they finally got that functionality in and "launched" the site.

> The state coordinator has access to all of these contacts and their email addresses. Right now this is what we're working on in Vermont-- getting a hold of these folks and letting them know that we are organizing, we have plans and we want them to be involved. In many ways we have to overcome the slowness of HQ but the best way to do that is to get people fired up again by showing them that you're working towards a goal. If the main website and HQ can't provide that yet, we on the state level we certainly can and should.

Yeah and then there is all the MICRO-Management of you can't pass out anything that isn't “blessed” at the national level – so if you have a local issue, say local gun control initiative, they have to pass it through the national lawyers and it never comes back – TOTAL BS!


>> The overall atmosphere of secrecy, being hard to contact, and not getting back to people - just like the PCC.

> I haven't had that problem. In fact I was easily able to get in touch with Debbie Hopper and get our state chapter an interim coordinator so that we could use the momentum we still have to round up all those non-dues-paying members and get our state chapter off the ground.

[...]

I think highly of D.H. - but not of the rest of the staff. You make good points as to other problems...

>> A consistent "do it all in house" attitude and blowing off many offers of help by very talented people.

> This is why it's important to be active locally. Locally is where all the work is to be done. Locally is what the PL system is all about. Organize on the state, district and county levels and utilize your assets. Don't wait for orders from HQ. Take the ball and play.

Umm – brain fart! In the country we have 2 groups that are any good at animation. In our state we have a couple of ppl that are good at silk screen and one of a small handful in the country that is a voice artist – as far as I can tell we don't have a single decent graphic artist in the state! - yet we have over 100 of them in the country – most live in NYC or LA or places like that... Bands – not one in this state – but a state up there are several and one down there are 2...

locally for specialist skills – TOTAL BRAIN FART!

>> The failure of the precinct leaders program largely due to the $35 fee, the yearly requirements and that asinine NDA people have to sign.

> I think they learned a lesson giving all that PL info out during the PCC. It's a very good system and it ended up being used by other campaigns

you know – I ended up supporting Nader as the lesser of evils and worked the end game of his campaign. I call banked for the guy – even though I hate his socialist leaning, but I love his anti-corp angle! - anyway, his campaign gave me TOTAL ACCESS to his supporter database for the country! - granted – I only looked a place or two where I wasn't supposed to be momentarily – but I mean TOTAL ACCESS! - and the sky didn't come falling down... I called hundreds of his supporters and reminded them to vote for him. Our DB being used by Oh-Bomb-Us LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -- GET REAL DUDE!

-t

[FindLiberty]

nota

[TruthisTreason]

Are you also uninterested in utilizing their tools (lol) for the movement, or just unimpressed with them? Do you feel they aren't the vehicle for the movement at all, i.e. poor representation of the grassroots?

What, if anything, would you change so they better represent the grassroots.

What would I change? People's mindset, especially those waiting for a miracle to fall out of the sky. We can all do plenty just by getting started in our own neighborhoods. Some already have and maybe those are the ones most frustrated with CFL. We need to run for office (or support someone of like mindset that does), not write blogs about how $#@!ty America is.

I think the CFL site is just one step in a direction we all need to go. And that is organizing and having a place to get info, send info, communicate etc... Sure, any site could do that.

I think we just have to face the facts, we're the minority. We've lost a lot of the numbers we had, because the election is over.

[Kludge]

We've lost a lot of the numbers we had, because the election is over.

Barring Super Tuesday and November 4th spikes, RPFs has been solid since 2007

[Pete]

Use the website as a training ground, fill out the PL information, take advantage of all the tools they have to offer. Take all that info and get together with like minded people and decide how you're going to take your state back. Become involved in your parties-- whatever party you feel connected to-- and bring the Constitution with you.

If we want this to be a grassroots effort we have to make it one. We can't sit around and complain about how the C4L isn't allowing us to be grassroots.

I really like the tools, specifically the precinct organization, messaging, announcements, events calendar, and user blogs. All this could be very powerful IF people got more involved. Right now, there are only 2 PLs in my district, very frustrating. If there were 100, we could be doing all kinds of things on a big scale, like dominating city council, party, and school board meetings, hanging out in the courts, flyering, demonstrating, you name it. And if there were the full 700 PLs, we'd own this area. My private vision is to publish monthly newsletters going to all households, telling them what's REALLY going on at the local, state, and national levels. I'd also like to give everyone a copy of Freedom to Fascism and Common Sense Revisited.

Our county organization is small, about 15-20 of a somewhat rotating cast showing at monthly meetings, but with lots of good ideas. I am excited. Again, more bods would be welcome as community outreach plans would happen 5X faster.

I honestly don't care what the national office does. If 180,000 pay $35 in dues, that's $6.3 million. That sounds like a lot of money, but on the great scale of things, it's nothing. Hopefully, they will use the money to develop better materials and website, and do some lobbying and advertising. If they don't, shame on them. In any event, the action is in the states. I will probably spend a grand or so locally on my own efforts.

[LittleLightShining]

Yeah and then there is all the MICRO-Management of you can't pass out anything that isn't “blessed” at the national level – so if you have a local issue, say local gun control initiative, they have to pass it through the national lawyers and it never comes back – TOTAL BS!

I haven't heard this yet but why would you pass it through HQ in the first place?

>> A consistent "do it all in house" attitude and blowing off many offers of help by very talented people.

> This is why it's important to be active locally. Locally is where all the work is to be done. Locally is what the PL system is all about. Organize on the state, district and county levels and utilize your assets. Don't wait for orders from HQ. Take the ball and play.

Umm – brain fart! In the country we have 2 groups that are any good at animation. In our state we have a couple of ppl that are good at silk screen and one of a small handful in the country that is a voice artist – as far as I can tell we don't have a single decent graphic artist in the state! - yet we have over 100 of them in the country – most live in NYC or LA or places like that... Bands – not one in this state – but a state up there are several and one down there are 2...

locally for specialist skills – TOTAL BRAIN FART!

Well excuse me, then

Soooo... why can't local groups reach out to these folks? You're the one with the brain fart. Stop complaining and start organizing.

>> The failure of the precinct leaders program largely due to the $35 fee, the yearly requirements and that asinine NDA people have to sign.

> I think they learned a lesson giving all that PL info out during the PCC. It's a very good system and it ended up being used by other campaigns

you know – I ended up supporting Nader as the lesser of evils and worked the end game of his campaign. I call banked for the guy – even though I hate his socialist leaning, but I love his anti-corp angle! - anyway, his campaign gave me TOTAL ACCESS to his supporter database for the country! - granted – I only looked a place or two where I wasn't supposed to be momentarily – but I mean TOTAL ACCESS! - and the sky didn't come falling down... I called hundreds of his supporters and reminded them to vote for him. Our DB being used by Oh-Bomb-Us LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -- GET REAL DUDE!

-t

I didn't say the database was used, but the method. Maybe the RP PCC didn't invent the system but they certainly laid it out in a very accessible format.

BTW, I'm not a dude.

[TruthisTreason]

Barring Super Tuesday and November 4th spikes, RPFs has been solid since 2007

Unique IP addresses are the same since summer/fall of 2007?

[Truth Warrior]

"I won't belong to any organization that would have someone like me as a member." -- Groucho Marx

[Pete]

Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul

Yeah and then there is all the MICRO-Management of you can't pass out anything that isn't “blessed” at the national level – so if you have a local issue, say local gun control initiative, they have to pass it through the national lawyers and it never comes back – TOTAL BS!

I haven't heard this yet but why would you pass it through HQ in the first place?

Each local group is its own legal entity. It can be a 501(c)(4) or a 527, as it prefers, and we can hand out whatever we want. The only limitation is using the national C4L logo and letterhead, like that's a problem.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I haven't heard this yet but why would you pass it through HQ in the first place?

I guess you didn't read the LEGALLY BINDING NDA you signed and entered into - if you are PL - did you?

Unlike scummy software company contracts, it was less than half a page and all the REALLY ugly stuff ( there was PLENTY!) was right out in front!

Soooo... why can't local groups reach out to these folks? You're the one with the brain fart. Stop complaining and start organizing.

Guess you don't know who I am - go look here:

http://operationcatherder.com/index.php/Skills_Bank

(and that's the tip of the ice burg...)

BTW, I'm not a dudeQ.

Don't suppose you are younger, cute and single? <wink!>

lol!

-t