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Thread: scientists out there..... the best way to prove our message

  1. #1

    Default scientists out there..... the best way to prove our message

    is to come up with a better fuel than refined gasoline for vehicle transport, before the government does.

    lets do this.
    vocalist - Look What I Did - liberty friendly melodic mathcore band from Tennessee, RIYL The Dillinger Escape Plan, Self, Mr. Bungle feat new album Atlas Drugged produced by Brian Virtue (Jane's Addiction, Chevelle, 30 Seconds to Mars) with songs like "Jekyll Island Fiat Scratch (Burn Down the Federal Reserve)" and "My Girlfriend, Leo Strauss"
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  3. #2

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    You don't have to develop anything, necessarily.

    Simply join the fight to legalize hemp/cannabis

    http://votehemp.com/

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimnir Wotansvolk View Post
    You don't have to develop anything, necessarily.

    Simply join the fight to legalize hemp/cannabis

    http://votehemp.com/
    Yea, Hemp-Ethanol would be pretty effective. Unfortunately, the folks behind the wheels of industry have done a great job of demonizing hemp, and anyone who mentions hemp is labeled as a hippy-stoner-wacko.
    Hemp grows super well in almost all of america and can be used to make way more than fuel. And, we don't need to eat it, like corn! Eh, it won't happen until Dupont can genetically engineer a version of hemp that they can patent. Then the government will finally "take hemp seriously".... poopers for sure.

  5. #4

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    yeah that would definately throw some more fuel into the system, and theres not much reason to not try it out by legalizing it.
    vocalist - Look What I Did - liberty friendly melodic mathcore band from Tennessee, RIYL The Dillinger Escape Plan, Self, Mr. Bungle feat new album Atlas Drugged produced by Brian Virtue (Jane's Addiction, Chevelle, 30 Seconds to Mars) with songs like "Jekyll Island Fiat Scratch (Burn Down the Federal Reserve)" and "My Girlfriend, Leo Strauss"
    Blogger for Silver Circle Underground and the Silver Circle Movie

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by BarryDonegan View Post
    yeah that would definately throw some more fuel into the system, and theres not much reason to not try it out by legalizing it.
    I don't mean this as a criticism towards you, but I hate seeing people refer to hemp as something that we need to, "try out," "give a shot," etc.

    It's already been proven, and the fact that this plant can be grown 2 or 3 times a year in the right conditions should make it obvious what needs to be done.

    Hemp was, after all, the vision Ford and Diesel had for the future.

    Add medical and recreational marijuana to the mix, and just consider what kind of power could be injected into our economy. If you value a stable free market and sound money, this is absolutely the way to go. Imagine what a change in conversation this could bring: "the power of de-regulatory free-market capitalism has successfully beaten back a government-incurred debt, saving us from what could have easily become the next Great Depression..."

    Perhaps one day we'll get to see those headlines.
    Last edited by Grimnir Wotansvolk; 10-30-2008 at 02:05 AM.

  7. #6

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    still, you have to introduce it into the market and make sure that it is viable enough to sustain the WHOLE system.... being able to produce enough hemp to create enough fuel to do some good, sure, but hanging the whole energy system on one fuel just doesn't make any sense. let prices dictate it with them all legalized, you cannot possibly prove yet that any one is better than the others just based on the one sided stats every promoter of a fuel type presents. the only way to truly measure it is to test them all at once, and see which one is the most abundant with the lowest price once the day is done. have you looked into how much farm space is available for hemp? what other things might not get produced in the same space? theres no telling until we try, and each fuel is probably only viable at certain environmental conditions.

    what happens if theres a drought one year.. thats why you need 20 options for fuel, rather than the just one approach we have now.

    so yeah, im with you, legalize hemp, lets get it rolling. once i see a pump with a good price on it, and a fuel my vehicle can use, then i will congratulate whatever group profited off of that brilliant venture, until then, lets legalize every choice and get the taxes off em.
    Last edited by BarryDonegan; 10-30-2008 at 02:08 AM.
    vocalist - Look What I Did - liberty friendly melodic mathcore band from Tennessee, RIYL The Dillinger Escape Plan, Self, Mr. Bungle feat new album Atlas Drugged produced by Brian Virtue (Jane's Addiction, Chevelle, 30 Seconds to Mars) with songs like "Jekyll Island Fiat Scratch (Burn Down the Federal Reserve)" and "My Girlfriend, Leo Strauss"
    Blogger for Silver Circle Underground and the Silver Circle Movie

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimnir Wotansvolk View Post
    I don't mean this as a criticism towards you, but I hate seeing people refer to hemp as something that we need to, "try out," "give a shot," etc.

    It's already been proven, and the fact that this plant can be grown 2 or 3 times a year in the right conditions should make it obvious what needs to be done.

    Hemp was, after all, the vision Ford and Diesel had for the future.
    True.
    Also, most species of hemp don't even contain significant amounts of THC. If the government really wanted to keep the kids from toking the green, they could still keep the THC containing hemp illegal. I don't think any hemp should be illegal, but we aren't even talking about smokable hemp. Outlawing an entire GENUS of plants is ridiculous. It's akin to outlawing all poppy plants because there is one species that you can make opium from.

    This whole thing gets me really mad. There is no good reason for Hemp to be illegal. I don't even care, they can keep Cannabis sativa illegal if they want. Open up the rest of hemp. Unfortunately oil companies, plastic companies, and lumber companies will never let that happen, unless they can find a way to monopolize it.... again, it's all poopers.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by PauliticsPolitics View Post
    I don't even care, they can keep Cannabis sativa illegal if they want.
    Why? How can you speak so effectively about hemp and then be so hush-hush about cannabis? That seems to spineless to me, when there's also no valid reason for cannabis to be illegal.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimnir Wotansvolk View Post
    Why? How can you speak so effectively about hemp and then be so hush-hush about cannabis? That seems to spineless to me, when there's also no valid reason for cannabis to be illegal.
    I agree...
    But, the stated reasons for making the genus cannabis illegal is due to THC content. Most hemp (industrial hemp) has almost no THC. Outlawing industrial hemp because related plants contain THC is just plain ridiculous.

    I am also for the legalization for almost all drugs, but I believe that is a separate discussion. Alot of people are against hemp because they falsely believe hemp is a drug.

    I personally believe legalizing industrial hemp is way more important than legalizing THC, though I am quite pro for both.
    Last edited by PauliticsPolitics; 10-30-2008 at 02:55 AM.

  11. #10

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    hemp would also prevent reforestation..

    The Declaration of Independence was written on Hemp Paper

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimnir Wotansvolk View Post
    Why? How can you speak so effectively about hemp and then be so hush-hush about cannabis? That seems to spineless to me, when there's also no valid reason for cannabis to be illegal.
    Priorities? Because if we mix the two, we are confusing the issue and vastly reduce the probability of succeeding in getting industrial hemp legalized.

  13. #12

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    Hemp is great but my money is still on algal biofuel. Fastest growing plant on earth, it only needs water, sunlight, and CO2 (carbon-negative?), and the leftover biomass can be used for feed stock. The main problems are investment and capital (of course) but also using it in current facilities. I think algal oil requires a different, but not necessarily complicated, refining process.
    "My pride in my country is inversely proportional to Michelle Obama's pride in her country."
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  14. #13
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    So what will the environmentalists have to say against hemp?

    And what are the legitimate arguments against hemp? And for hemp?

    This could be one helpful alternative, particularly since it will not be stealing a food product to use it.

    Now, what are some other suggestions in addition to hemp?
    Carole

    "Mr. Chairman, we have in this Country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks, hereinafter called the Fed. The Fed has cheated the Government of these United States and the people of the United States out of enough money to pay the Nation's debt. The depredations and iniquities of the Fed has cost enough money to pay the National debt several times over. -Cong. Louis McFadden

  15. #14

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    Ok, I'm going into my totally demented and sick mind now, check it out:

    Biodiesel can be made from any kind of fat. And Chevron is running ads constantly with the tag-line "human energy".

    See where I'm going here?

    It seems I'm not the only person who thinks of crap like this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sWwSLLdDy0
    Last edited by SeanEdwards; 10-30-2008 at 11:31 AM.

  16. #15

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    yes, sean edwards, you just made the best argument for the seperation of science and state, the same discussion thomas jefferson had about seperation of church and state.

    both of those lines of reasoning tend to go so far that they become tyranny.. hahaha.

    obviously as libertarians we want to legalize everything, but it is ineffective libertarianism to believe we can legalize everything overnight. we have to come up with arguments and make it a slippery slope. it was a slippery slope to fascism, lets have a slippery slope to liberty. bottom line is, you legalize hemp you also work to decrim marijuana. when the whole of america does not turn into sodom and ghomorra over it, then you say, hey, maybe we could cut down crime a little if we just stopped prohibiting substances at all...by that time the FDA would probably have half of america junked out on oxycodeine and the argument would make more sense to get rid of it.

    then as these freedoms do not result in abuses, you win. the problem is if you go to fast, you get other problems. for example, what if my state, tennessee, decided it would legalize all drugs over night, and that the national guard would defend its right to do so. it would become a world wide hotspot for drugs, and would probably have an economic boom for that reason. but also, it would be a world wide boom in a legal place to do hard drugs, which would result in a tourism industry that you don't want. you would have an increase in crime because of the nature of the drug use. if it were legalized in all states this sortof concentration of intoxication wouldn't occur. thats why you have to baby step, learn to crawl before you walk.
    vocalist - Look What I Did - liberty friendly melodic mathcore band from Tennessee, RIYL The Dillinger Escape Plan, Self, Mr. Bungle feat new album Atlas Drugged produced by Brian Virtue (Jane's Addiction, Chevelle, 30 Seconds to Mars) with songs like "Jekyll Island Fiat Scratch (Burn Down the Federal Reserve)" and "My Girlfriend, Leo Strauss"
    Blogger for Silver Circle Underground and the Silver Circle Movie

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by PauliticsPolitics View Post
    Yea, Hemp-Ethanol would be pretty effective. Unfortunately, the folks behind the wheels of industry have done a great job of demonizing hemp, and anyone who mentions hemp is labeled as a hippy-stoner-wacko.
    Hemp grows super well in almost all of america and can be used to make way more than fuel. And, we don't need to eat it, like corn! Eh, it won't happen until Dupont can genetically engineer a version of hemp that they can patent. Then the government will finally "take hemp seriously".... poopers for sure.
    Great post, except that hemp has much more nutritional value than corn.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

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  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carole View Post
    So what will the environmentalists have to say against hemp?

    Nothing. It grows just about anywhere, with little need for water, and no need for things like fertilizer and pesticides. It actually helps restore soil for certain kinds of crops negating the need to use chemical fertilizers for THOSE crops, so it's actually very beneficial to rotate into existing crops.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  19. #18

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    As another poster mentioned, hemp can be harvested several times each year.

    An acre of hemp produces 4 times more paper than an acre of trees, because trees take so much longer to grow back.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Nothing. It grows just about anywhere, with little need for water, and no need for things like fertilizer and pesticides. It actually helps restore soil for certain kinds of crops negating the need to use chemical fertilizers for THOSE crops, so it's actually very beneficial to rotate into existing crops.
    environmentalists aren't really environmentalists. they manage to find some other thing that is affected by any new idea and fight it, because thats what the people creating the initial propaganda films are motivated by. hahaha. thats why you see environmentalists going after the logging companies, who are by far one of the more responsible industries about reforestation. in fact, logging companies SURVIVE off of reforestation.
    vocalist - Look What I Did - liberty friendly melodic mathcore band from Tennessee, RIYL The Dillinger Escape Plan, Self, Mr. Bungle feat new album Atlas Drugged produced by Brian Virtue (Jane's Addiction, Chevelle, 30 Seconds to Mars) with songs like "Jekyll Island Fiat Scratch (Burn Down the Federal Reserve)" and "My Girlfriend, Leo Strauss"
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