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Thread: I'm voting for McCain. Here's why...

  1. #1

    Default I'm voting for McCain. Here's why...

    First of all I'd like to start off by saying that no one ever gets to vote for their ideal candidate. We can talk all day about what the ideal candidate would do, but on voting day, you only get to vote for the people on the ballot. I think that's worth keeping in mind as you read the rest of this.

    Second, I'd like to stress that a vote in the presidential general election doesn't mean much. It certainly doesn't mean nearly as much as the mainstream media would like us to think it does. This whole charade is really nothing more than a distraction to keep our attention while the man behind the curtain takes care of what really matters. The President doesn't get to write laws. Only the Congress can do that. The Congress decides what programs get money, what regulations exist, and ultimately they decide where and if our troops get deployed. If there is any hope for this country, it lies with overtaking Congress, not the White House. Also, voting doesn't change much. Contributing does. Campaigns run on contributions. Money buys votes. Most of America votes for whomever ran the most ads in their market. Like it or not, that's the way it works.

    Now, on to my point. A lot of people here, myself included, have talked about how dumb it is to vote for the lesser of two evils. It's a terrible thing to do to your country to hold your nose and vote for a candidate you don't really like just to keep another guy whom you dislike even more out of office. And that's a great argument *against* voting for any of the third party candidates!

    I can't stand Barr. He wrote the Defense of Marriage Act. (aka "we hate gays") He voted for a Patriot Act. (aka "take away all your civil rights") and he's been a fierce proponent of the War on Drugs. (aka "The War on Americans"). He refused to show up for the third party debates, which makes him no better than the Republicrats who try to keep all other voices silent.

    I can't stand Chuck Baldwin. He supports keeping the ten commandments posted outside every court house. He thinks homosexuality is a moral perversion. He compiled a booklet entitled "What Every Christian Should Know About Islam", which sounds a lot to me like a call for holy war.

    Ralph Nader's a socialist, and so are everyone in the Green Party, so they're immediately unqualified for my vote.

    I definitely don't like Obama, because he's a socialist. He probably wants to send our troops into Sudan and Pakistan, risking nuclear war with the latter. He probably wants to cede American sovereignty to the United Nations.

    I'm not a huge fan of McCain, either. He probably wants to start a war with Iran. He reversed his position on brining the troops home which he held when we had our troops occupying Somalia. He reversed his position advocating more deregulation. He's done a piss poor job of making his case. He says he wants less government, but I'm not sure he believes it.

    Oh, and write-in votes don't count.

    So, now I find myself in the position of having to make a choice between the lesser of six evils.

    Now, McCain does have a few good policy positions. He's in favor of school choice. I personally believe that improving the quality of our education system, particularily in the area of math, is the only way to improve the state of our country in the long run. People need to understand math so that they can understand economics. Only then will they demand that our government really enforce property rights. McCain has done a terrible job of advocating his position on school choice. If I were him, I'd be sure an mention it during every debate. but he hasn't. McCain has also said he'll take a hatchet to the federal budget, and he's stood by that position even in the face of criticism from Obama. We need a fiscal conservative in the White House now more than ever, and between the two of them, McCain talks a better game.

    McCain has run a terrible campaign. He hasn't stood by his positions. He's told the American people what he thinks that want to hear rather than try to explain to them why he's right. He's caved in to the media, and he's reduced the Republican party to the status of "Democrats Lite".

    However, from among the choices on the ballot, McCain is the best one. He's not the path to a libertarian sociaty. That lies in other candidates like BJ Lawson. I didn't contribute to McCain's campaign. I did contribute to Lawson's. I'm voting for McCain, and I'm really hoping that Lawson wins.



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  3. #2

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    How Can You Think Voting Matters?
    Actually, it does, says Wilt Alston, just not in the way you think.

  4. #3

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Warrior View Post
    How Can You Think Voting Matters?
    Actually, it does, says Wilt Alston, just not in the way you think.
    I love this column.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 (KJV)//I sell stuff here go buy nao!

  5. #4

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    Blood will be on YOUR hands. I hope you are prepared to accept the responsibility.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  6. #5

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    Don't vote for someone you don't support. If you vote for him, you own his mistakes. I own Bush's policies because of my uniformed voting.
    "Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank...You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the grace of the Eternal God, will rout you out."- Andrew Jackson (The Guy on the 20)

    www.micahnelson.com

  7. #6

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    You are a fool for even listening to McCain's campaign rhetoric.

    You are a fool for thinking that Nader would be worse than McCain when Ron Paul specifically outlined the four most important issues of the day, and we all agree on them, and McCain agrees with none of them. Don't you see the absolute stupidity of your logic? Go ahead and support the establishment you $#@!ing pig.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    I love this column.
    Check this one out too.

    I Don't Mind If You Keep Voting, But Do You Mind If I Keep Laughing While You Do?
    by Wilton D. Alston
    http://www.strike-the-root.com/82/alston/alston1.html


  9. #8

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    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  10. #9

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    Feenix566 thinks he is smart because he wants to block Obama from being President. Feenix566 thinks that his vote is going to change the outcome of the election. Feenix566 doesn't understand that the concept of voting is throwing your support behind something or someone you SUPPORT and that strategic voting with your individual vote is stupid because it doesn't change anything.

    Feenix566 is part of the problem. Feenix566 will waste his vote supporting the establishment like a piece of sheople.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  11. #10

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    Have any of you guys actually read my post? Stop posting knee-jerk reactions and read what I wrote.

    Or don't. I don't care. Your opinions won't influence me unless you can back them up with rational points.

  12. #11

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    vote for whoever you want.

    Also, there's bound to be John McCain forums you could visit and discuss important issues with like-minded people.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feenix566 View Post
    Have any of you guys actually read my post? Stop posting knee-jerk reactions and read what I wrote.

    Or don't. I don't care. Your opinions won't influence me unless you can back them up with rational points.
    OK, I read it. I stand by my "rational points" posts.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feenix566 View Post
    Have any of you guys actually read my post? Stop posting knee-jerk reactions and read what I wrote.

    Or don't. I don't care. Your opinions won't influence me unless you can back them up with rational points.
    I'm not trying to influence you. The point is you have completely failed to see that this is an issue of the people vs. the establishment. McCain and Obama represent the establishment. Ron Paul, Nader, Barr (probably), Baldwin and McKinney, and nearly everybody on this messageboard represent and support the interests of the people and freedom. You are supporting the establishment by voting McCain, and IMO that is the WORST decision you can make. Period.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  15. #14

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    Thank you for making your case rationally and respectfully feenix. If from here you go on to fail to spam these boards I will be all the more grateful.

    I am not swayed. McCain has had ample opportunity to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution and he has regularly failed. His pandering to us has been outrageous, his warmongering puts even Biden to shame, and his treatment of various people from the Navajos on the reservation (whom he was instrumental in poisioning with uranium pilings) to his wives to his fellow P.O.W.s show no hint that he ever cared about anyone but himself--ever. And, to top it off, socialists like Nader and McKinney may well lead us to a Worker's Paradise, but McCain in my best prognostication will do it just as quick, put bigger $#@!s in charge and pay much less mind to the Constitution in the process. One of the independents might just save the Bill of Rights and dust it off. I don't for a second believe McCain would be so polite.

    So, no thanks. But I appreciate your civility and your good attempts at rational arguments for your position.
    'It ain't what we don't know that hurts us, it's what we "know" that ain't so.'--Will Rogers

    'I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag.'--Molly Ivins

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feenix566 View Post
    First of all I'd like to start off by saying that no one ever gets to vote for their ideal candidate. We can talk all day about what the ideal candidate would do, but on voting day, you only get to vote for the people on the ballot. I think that's worth keeping in mind as you read the rest of this.
    I read the title and I am not reading any more.

    McCain sucks and so do you. That's my polite rationalization.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  17. #16

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    I cast my mail in vote for Barr. In my opinion even though McCain is horrible Obama is 1000 times worse and is the worst possible person in the world to be president. If you live in a state that strongly leans either republican or democrat then you vote doesn't matter that much and you should vote 3rd party. But if you live in a battle ground state it is at least worth considering voting for the lesser of two evils.

  18. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alawn View Post
    But if you live in a battle ground state it is at least worth considering voting for the lesser of two evils.
    Why? The only time I can picture myself doing that is if I actually thought I would be casting a tie-breaking vote.. like if I were on a city council with 5 other people or something. There's no way this is going to come down to a single voter swinging a state.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  19. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Thank you for making your case rationally and respectfully feenix. If from here you go on to fail to spam these boards I will be all the more grateful.

    I am not swayed. McCain has had ample opportunity to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution and he has regularly failed. His pandering to us has been outrageous, his warmongering puts even Biden to shame, and his treatment of various people from the Navajos on the reservation (whom he was instrumental in poisioning with uranium pilings) to his wives to his fellow P.O.W.s show no hint that he ever cared about anyone but himself--ever. And, to top it off, socialists like Nader and McKinney may well lead us to a Worker's Paradise, but McCain in my best prognostication will do it just as quick, put bigger $#@!s in charge and pay much less mind to the Constitution in the process. One of the independents might just save the Bill of Rights and dust it off. I don't for a second believe McCain would be so polite.

    So, no thanks. But I appreciate your civility and your good attempts at rational arguments for your position.
    Thanks for taking the time to read it. I suspect you're the only one who has.

    Like I said, I'm not trying to say McCain's a great candidate. He isn't. But my point is that Obama, Barr, Baldwin, Nader, and McKinney are all worse. I think they would all take us down the road to socialism and less freedom faster.

    I'm not going to hold my nose and vote for a candidate I dislike just so I can maintain my position as "anti-establishment".

  20. #19

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feenix566 View Post
    I'm not going to hold my nose and vote for a candidate I dislike just so I can maintain my position as "anti-establishment".


    That's because you don't understand how the system works.

    When you finally realize that it is the establishment that is attempting to subvert our freedoms, then maybe you will get it.


    Why is it that you have so little respect for Ron Paul? I mean, he gathered together 4 candidates, outlined the four most important stances in existence that are currently leading us towards tyranny and economic failure, got all 4 candidates to agree on these points, and McCain disagrees with ALL four points. What part of this logic train I just explained are you missing? Socialism isn't just giving money to individuals. Socialism is giving money to huge corporations on the military industrial complex. This hurts individuals and is the reason why socialism for individuals was implimented. Corporate and military socialism existed long before welfare. Your version of socialism is limited to hippy leftists who want to give money to poor people. At least they are smart enough to recognize there is a problem, they simply have the wrong solution. We have a better one, but their solution is a better solution than continuing to let the establishment destroy us. You have been fooled by the establishment again, and your lack of understanding is leading you to making a really stupid horrible decision.
    Last edited by dannno; 10-22-2008 at 01:23 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  22. #21

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    "The system is corrupt, beyond redemption, and is not worthy of my support!"

  23. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Feenix566 View Post
    Have any of you guys actually read my post? Stop posting knee-jerk reactions and read what I wrote.

    Or don't. I don't care. Your opinions won't influence me unless you can back them up with rational points.
    http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/g...id=oid%3A53680

    Neither Obama nor McCain pass either of my litmus tests, and the Republican nominee is arguably even worse than his Democratic opponent. As Libertarian Justin Raimondo aptly put it, the only thing Obama promises to change concerning our current foreign policy is the battlefield. McCain wants to send more troops to both Iraq and Afghanistan, and if he and his neoconservative advisers get their way, possibly Iran and Georgia. And whereas Obama merely supports amnesty, McCain — along with Ted Kennedy — actually sponsored the bill.
    Don't let others get you down. Not naysayers, not pretenders, not appeasers, not opportunists; none of em.

    What others do pales beside what YOU do.

    Press on! - The r3VOLution continues...

    "Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."

    ~ C.Coolidge

  24. #23

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    I like amnesty. It's one of the two issues on which I disagree with Ron Paul. That's actually one of the things I like about McCain.


    There's one more thing I wanted to mention but forgot in my initial post. When Ralph Nader's vote count in Florida in 2000 was greater than the difference between Gore and Bush, did everyone in the Democratic party take notice and move more towards Nader's positions? No. Of course not! All they did was blame Nader for Bush's win! There's no reason to believe that the Republican reaction to a big voter turnout for Barr would be any different. They wouldn't change their ways and become more libertarian. All they'd do would be to blame Barr for Obama's win.

    You can't cause real change by voting third party. Sorry, that's just life. The only way we're ever going to have more than two viable parties in this country is if the laws that govern our election process are changed. The only way to do that is to take over one of the major parties. Yeah, it stinks. But that's our situation. We can accept it and deal with it, or we can deny reality and live in a delusion.

  25. #24

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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Gandhi

  26. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Feenix566 View Post
    I like amnesty. It's one of the two issues on which I disagree with Ron Paul. That's actually one of the things I like about McCain.


    There's one more thing I wanted to mention but forgot in my initial post. When Ralph Nader's vote count in Florida in 2000 was greater than the difference between Gore and Bush, did everyone in the Democratic party take notice and move more towards Nader's positions? No. Of course not! All they did was blame Nader for Bush's win! There's no reason to believe that the Republican reaction to a big voter turnout for Barr would be any different. They wouldn't change their ways and become more libertarian. All they'd do would be to blame Barr for Obama's win.

    You can't cause real change by voting third party. Sorry, that's just life. The only way we're ever going to have more than two viable parties in this country is if the laws that govern our election process are changed. The only way to do that is to take over one of the major parties. Yeah, it stinks. But that's our situation. We can accept it and deal with it, or we can deny reality and live in a delusion.
    You think you can cause real change by empowering the tools of the murdering banksters by voting for the false dichotomy of the republicratic demublicans?

    Bwwwwahahhahhahahhahhhahah <sorry couldn't resist>

    Bush is responsible for the greatest growth/spending in Gov't since FDR. As well as the greatest erosion of individual freedom that I know of. No Child left behind... The drug entitlement program... etc. etc. McCain is more of the same

    Most of us are conservatives, too bad the GOP "leaders" have led their party away from us. The fact is that most of us still have principals and will not sacrifice them for the sake of unity.

    And any argument about throwing the vote to the neo-libs falls flat since we have the option of www.votepact.org. I've already found a partner
    Don't let others get you down. Not naysayers, not pretenders, not appeasers, not opportunists; none of em.

    What others do pales beside what YOU do.

    Press on! - The r3VOLution continues...

    "Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."

    ~ C.Coolidge

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronpaulhawaii View Post
    You think you can cause real change by empowering the tools of the murdering banksters by voting for the false dichotomy of the republicratic demublicans?
    No, I don't. I said that in my opener. You can't cause real change with your presidential vote. You can by making campaign contributions. Real change won't be made in the White House this year. It probably won't be made in Congress, either. But Congress is the only place where we can make real progress. So make a campaign contribution to BJ Lawson!

  28. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    That's because you don't understand how the system works.

    When you finally realize that it is the establishment that is attempting to subvert our freedoms, then maybe you will get it.


    Why is it that you have so little respect for Ron Paul? I mean, he gathered together 4 candidates, outlined the four most important stances in existence that are currently leading us towards tyranny and economic failure, got all 4 candidates to agree on these points, and McCain disagrees with ALL four points. What part of this logic train I just explained are you missing? Socialism isn't just giving money to individuals. Socialism is giving money to huge corporations on the military industrial complex. This hurts individuals and is the reason why socialism for individuals was implimented. Corporate and military socialism existed long before welfare. Your version of socialism is limited to hippy leftists who want to give money to poor people. At least they are smart enough to recognize there is a problem, they simply have the wrong solution. We have a better one, but their solution is a better solution than continuing to let the establishment destroy us. You have been fooled by the establishment again, and your lack of understanding is leading you to making a really stupid horrible decision.
    I call that fascism, personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 (KJV)//I sell stuff here go buy nao!

  29. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Feenix566 View Post
    No, I don't. I said that in my opener. You can't cause real change with your presidential vote. You can by making campaign contributions. Real change won't be made in the White House this year. It probably won't be made in Congress, either. But Congress is the only place where we can make real progress. So make a campaign contribution to BJ Lawson!
    I was responding to this

    You can't cause real change by voting third party.
    Regardless, if you say,

    You can't cause real change with your presidential vote.
    why is your post titled ,

    "I'm voting for McCain, Here's why..."
    ?

    Meanwhile you say,

    Now, McCain does have a few good policy positions.
    and follow with

    He hasn't stood by his positions.
    even worse is this section is prefaced with a few

    He reversed his position
    statements

    Going on, you say,

    We need a fiscal conservative in the White House now more than ever
    only it is prefaced with

    He says he wants less government, but I'm not sure he believes it.
    Finally, we see,

    McCain talks a better game.
    Even putting all of the previous confusion aside, don't actions speak louder than words?
    Don't let others get you down. Not naysayers, not pretenders, not appeasers, not opportunists; none of em.

    What others do pales beside what YOU do.

    Press on! - The r3VOLution continues...

    "Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."

    ~ C.Coolidge

  30. #29

    Default

    I heard on the news today that a very large percentage of people polled admitted that McCain is more qualified to be president but will vote for Obama anyway. Sometimes this forum I believe to be in this group. How come the big banksters are supporting Obama? I know that Buffett, Rockefellers and Soros support Komrade Obama. That is quite telling. Tones

  31. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tonesforjonesbones View Post
    I heard on the news today that a very large percentage of people polled admitted that McCain is more qualified to be president but will vote for Obama anyway. Sometimes this forum I believe to be in this group. How come the big banksters are supporting Obama? I know that Buffett, Rockefellers and Soros support Komrade Obama. That is quite telling. Tones
    Hey Tones...

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