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Thread: What would happen if the USA went bankrupt?

  1. #1

    Default What would happen if the USA went bankrupt?

    We are very quickly approaching a situation where the federal government will not be able to pay its debts. Germany just turned the USA down when asked to loan money for the bank bailouts. If the bailout goes through, the government will have at least a $1.2 TRILLION deficit this year alone. If it doesn't, we'll "only" have a $400 billion dollar deficit.

    So what happens when the USA goes bankrupt?

    Well first, they have to lay off their government workers because they can't afford to enforce their laws, meaning it has the very real chance at freedom. The USA is well set up to have the federal government collapse because we have states that would still be able to do basic governance (and only cost about 2-8% of your income to do it). They have basic national defense (national guard), police and criminal codes, courts, etc.

    However, the other thing that would happen would be that the dollar - which is backed only by the credit of the US government - would collapse when the USA's credit rating went to crap. That would bring a collapse in the economy till people figured out how to buy/sell without the dollar. THAT could bring mass communism, just as it did in the 1930's. Confiscation of land, gold and silver so that the government can pay its debts will be instituted ...IF the people are scared and dumb enough to go along with it (which, if you ask me, they are. Without a doubt.)

    So how do we gain freedom and avoid communism? We have to have enough people in one place that are willing to say "no" and can govern themselves when the federal government is too broke to enforce its will. Right now, almost all states would go along with mass communism if the economy collapsed because there arne't enough people who understand how we got here. But if we had a place that had enough people who understood the problem in one place, we could make the right choice and achieve freedom. California, Maryland, Illinois...they could be free to go to hell on their own.


    What I'm saying is, when the Soviet Union collapsed, some of the states broke off and became very free. Others stayed in Russia proper. Others broke off and stayed in corrupt communism. How do we ensure that we have a state that could be governed freely?

    What do you think?
    Last edited by porcupine; 09-24-2008 at 06:04 PM.
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  3. #2
    Member nate895's Avatar
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    Well, should the worst happen, what I'd expect to have happen is a communist revolution vs. our revolution vs. possible fascist revolution (though I doubt that one). Our revolution will have strength in the Southern and Western states (with some exceptions), theirs would have strength in the Northeast and the Rustbelt (with the exception of New Hampshire, other rare exceptions). If a fascist revolution took hold anywhere, it'd be weak, with a little strength in small portions of the South. Remember, with this kind of stuff, all it takes is a few dozen crazy nut jobs and you have a full blown civil war.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GK Chesterton
    It is often supposed that when people stop believing in God, they believe in nothing. Alas, it is worse than that. When they stop believing in God, they believe in anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rt. Hon. Edmund Burke
    Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference.

  4. #3

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    We actually are quite bankrupt. Our debt by now probably outweighs any assets of real value we possess.

    We only are not bankrupt because the dollar is accepted around the world, and we have the presses.

    Seriously though, in 1971 we declared we could no longer pay our debts in gold, hence the collapse of bretton-woods. For all intents and purposes we declared national bankruptcy then.

    Make no mistake, if the rest of the world, today, stopped accepting dollars a nice chunk of us would starve.
    We would have no gas available. Everything we import, which is almost everything we consume, would be gone. It would be the worst situation for the US since its creation, by far.

    They gov doesn't even pretend it has money anymore. These recent bailouts, they don't even go to congress they just issue and sell the bonds and get the cash, either from foreign sources or the fed.
    I mean, the IRS brings in like a trillion dollars a year, maybe a drop more. They are purposing to spend almost an entire years tax revenue on 1 single bailout. No one believes we have this kind of money anywhere.
    Last edited by Malakai; 09-24-2008 at 05:37 PM.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by nate895 View Post
    Well, should the worst happen, what I'd expect to have happen is a communist revolution vs. our revolution
    As it stands now, our revolution would be drowned out because, just like the election, we'd be a minority everywhere.
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  6. #5

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    We went bankrupt before. 1971 to be exact. We had a promise to foreign owned dollars that it was redeemable in gold, but because we spent more then we could actually exchange in gold, we shut down the window and told the world to get bent.

    Amazingly, we continued operating the global reserve currency then.

    If the world bends over and continues to take it, we will make out of this mess just fine.

    So it all depends on what the world central banks want to do.

  7. #6

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    The USA needs to go Bankrupt and start over.

  8. #7

    Default

    Interesting thought, but the government does not play by the same credit rules as you and me.

    If they didn't have the money to pay external debts to other countries, they just wouldn't pay. What are the other countries going to do about it?

    If the USA's "credit rating" went bad and other countries stopped loaning the USA money all together...well, the largest army in the history of the world has a unique way of raising it's own credit rating.

    H*ll could break loose...but the US government is not going to just disolve.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by porcupine View Post
    As it stands now, our revolution would be drowned out because, just like the election, we'd be a minority everywhere.
    Nah, not really, you start to see people going to radical philosophies in these situations, and we are the radical right-wing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GK Chesterton
    It is often supposed that when people stop believing in God, they believe in nothing. Alas, it is worse than that. When they stop believing in God, they believe in anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rt. Hon. Edmund Burke
    Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwater64 View Post
    Interesting thought, but the government does not play by the same credit rules as you and me.

    If they didn't have the money to pay external debts to other countries, they just wouldn't pay. What are the other countries going to do about it?

    If the USA's "credit rating" went bad and other countries stopped loaning the USA money all together...well, the largest army in the history of the world has a unique way of raising it's own credit rating.

    H*ll could break loose...but the US government is not going to just disolve.
    In the past, you go to war. They US government would be forced to dissolve if the dollar went down the tubes. It would either be voted out of existence (preferable), or it would be burned out of existence by mobs.
    http://www.ronpaul2012.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by GK Chesterton
    It is often supposed that when people stop believing in God, they believe in nothing. Alas, it is worse than that. When they stop believing in God, they believe in anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rt. Hon. Edmund Burke
    Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference.

  11. #10
    Dude, I'm rich! Check out this tin can! Uber wealth, ftw!

  12. #11

    Default

    We won't go bankrupt! It is their fiat system that has gone bankrupt. There
    is a huge difference.

    But what they are trying to do is exchange all their worthless debt (US Dollar, stocks,
    bad mortgages, etc.) for the American public's labor (or promise to pay). That is why
    this bailout is so important to stop. It is basically a huge swindle. They want our
    labor and our tangible property and businesses, and they are going to swap their
    failed paper for it.

    We are an extremely prosperous nation. Even today. We have tremendous
    resources, a great labor force, incredible businesses. Don't give them away to
    international interests who created a fiat financial system. And don't let them
    convince you that we are bankrupt.

    Let their system go down the toilet where it belongs.....then we can start
    anew with a sound money system that preserves our wealth.

  13. #12

    Default

    Germany just turned the USA down when asked to loan money for the bank bailouts.


    Payback for WWI and WWII. I guess now we'll see who are friends really arn't.
    "The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." - J. Edgar Hoover

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    Member nate895's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mconder View Post
    Payback for WWI and WWII.
    That one is owed to us, isn't it? I mean we did save more than half the world's population from greater tyranny than they already have, not to mention death camps.
    http://www.ronpaul2012.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by GK Chesterton
    It is often supposed that when people stop believing in God, they believe in nothing. Alas, it is worse than that. When they stop believing in God, they believe in anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rt. Hon. Edmund Burke
    Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwater64 View Post
    Interesting thought, but the government does not play by the same credit rules as you and me.

    If they didn't have the money to pay external debts to other countries, they just wouldn't pay. What are the other countries going to do about it?

    If the USA's "credit rating" went bad and other countries stopped loaning the USA money all together...well, the largest army in the history of the world has a unique way of raising it's own credit rating.

    The USA pays its soldiers with borrowed money. When the rest of the world stops lending money, then there will be no army. There will be very little left of the federal government. The question is what do we do with that opportunity? Will we be in a position to take advantage of it?

    I say we are not in a position to take advantage of it right now because we're too spread out and will be drowned out by the sheeple who will blame the crisis on the free market.
    "I am a friend of the Free State Project!" -- Rep. Ron Paul

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  16. #15

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    This is what the globalist want. Once the U.S. is bankrupt they will present the new currency as the only way out.
    "The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." - J. Edgar Hoover

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by nate895 View Post
    In the past, you go to war. They US government would be forced to dissolve if the dollar went down the tubes. It would either be voted out of existence (preferable), or it would be burned out of existence by mobs.
    That's exactly what I'm say we need to prevent. A mob will always always always choose to be led by a dictator.
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    Quote Originally Posted by porcupine View Post
    The USA pays its soldiers with borrowed money. When the rest of the world stops lending money, then there will be no army. There will be very little left of the federal government. The question is what do we do with that opportunity? Will we be in a position to take advantage of it?

    I say we are not in a position to take advantage of it right now because we're too spread out and will be drowned out by the sheeple who will blame the crisis on the free market.
    All we have to do is take control of the situation by getting our message out. We need to start distributing Austrian Economics/liberty pamphlets on every street corner. Let's print out a hundred million and put them in stacks on the street corner, right next to where the communist ones will be.
    http://www.ronpaul2012.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by GK Chesterton
    It is often supposed that when people stop believing in God, they believe in nothing. Alas, it is worse than that. When they stop believing in God, they believe in anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rt. Hon. Edmund Burke
    Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by mconder View Post
    This is what the globalist want. Once the U.S. is bankrupt they will present the new currency as the only way out.
    Right...that's what I keep saying. My question I posed in the original thread was, what are you going to do about it (besides talk about it online)? How do you propose getting set up so that we can take advantage of that opportunity while at the same time not falling victim to the tyranny that usually arises from a crisis?
    "I am a friend of the Free State Project!" -- Rep. Ron Paul

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    Member nate895's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by porcupine View Post
    That's exactly what I'm say we need to prevent. A mob will always always always choose to be led by a dictator.
    But we need to make sure that the dictator they choose is liberty-minded. Here's what generally happens: people get pissed, pick the most fiery leader to follow (we need one, Kokesh seems like the only one), diehard opposition follows their leader, government gets destroyed, then the two factions go to war.
    http://www.ronpaul2012.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by GK Chesterton
    It is often supposed that when people stop believing in God, they believe in nothing. Alas, it is worse than that. When they stop believing in God, they believe in anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rt. Hon. Edmund Burke
    Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malakai View Post
    We actually are quite bankrupt. Our debt by now probably outweighs any assets of real value we possess.
    What, NO WAY... The country, it's people and it's mineral wealth would be worth hundreds of trillions if not thousands of trillions of dollars. They are just not in liquid assets.
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  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by mconder View Post

    Payback for WWI and WWII. I guess now we'll see who are friends really arn't.
    I don't know about Germany not being a friend. As McCain says, the government spends money like drunken sailors. Would you loan a drunk money?
    "I am a friend of the Free State Project!" -- Rep. Ron Paul

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  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulVolunteer View Post
    What, NO WAY... The country, it's people and it's mineral wealth would be worth hundreds of trillions if not thousands of trillions of dollars. They are just not in liquid assets.
    Isn't thousands of trillions, quadrillions?
    http://www.ronpaul2012.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by GK Chesterton
    It is often supposed that when people stop believing in God, they believe in nothing. Alas, it is worse than that. When they stop believing in God, they believe in anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rt. Hon. Edmund Burke
    Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by nate895 View Post
    But we need to make sure that the dictator they choose is liberty-minded. Here's what generally happens: people get pissed, pick the most fiery leader to follow (we need one, Kokesh seems like the only one), diehard opposition follows their leader, government gets destroyed, then the two factions go to war.
    I talk with Adam a lot. I trust him. Some say he's a loose canon. I agree. He is. And that's EXACTLY what we need for this time. Kokesh for President.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulVolunteer View Post
    I talk with Adam a lot. I trust him. Some say he's a loose canon. I agree. He is. And that's EXACTLY what we need for this time. Kokesh for President.
    Except, Kokesh isn't 35, so he only qualifies for last-ditch revolution leader.
    http://www.ronpaul2012.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by GK Chesterton
    It is often supposed that when people stop believing in God, they believe in nothing. Alas, it is worse than that. When they stop believing in God, they believe in anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rt. Hon. Edmund Burke
    Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by porcupine View Post
    A mob will always always always choose to be led by a dictator.
    Yea, exactly.

    You say it, but I don't think you really get it (maybe you do?).
    Dude, I'm rich! Check out this tin can! Uber wealth, ftw!

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by porcupine View Post
    The USA pays its soldiers with borrowed money. When the rest of the world stops lending money, then there will be no army.
    That doesn't matter. Haven't you ever heard of the draft? If you resist you go to jail.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulVolunteer View Post
    What, NO WAY... The country, it's people and it's mineral wealth would be worth hundreds of trillions if not thousands of trillions of dollars. They are just not in liquid assets.
    OOOOOOoooookaaaayyyyyyy....so what does that have to do with the GOVERNMENT going bankrupt? You're suggesting that that the government would simply nationalize every raw material and industry...which would be communism...which is what I was saying we needed to avoid in my post.
    "I am a friend of the Free State Project!" -- Rep. Ron Paul

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  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by nate895 View Post
    But we need to make sure that the dictator they choose is liberty-minded.
    "I am a friend of the Free State Project!" -- Rep. Ron Paul

    FreeStateProject.org


    For on the ground information about the liberty movement in New Hampshire point your browser to www.RidleyReport.com

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by porcupine View Post
    OOOOOOoooookaaaayyyyyyy....so what does that have to do with the GOVERNMENT going bankrupt? You're suggesting that that the government would simply nationalize every raw material and industry...which would be communism...which is what I was saying we needed to avoid in my post.
    The Govt already HAS nationalized more land than you can possibly imagine. The reason we're in this mess is because it's fully planned. They're not stupid!
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  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alawn View Post
    That doesn't matter. Haven't you ever heard of the draft? If you resist you go to jail.
    If the government can't pay its bureaucrats, who takes you to jail exactly? Who pays the guards in the jail?

    What I'm saying is, when the Soviet Union collapsed, some of the states broke off and became very free. Others stayed in Russia proper. Others broke off and stayed in corrupt communism. How do we ensure that we have a state that could be governed freely?
    "I am a friend of the Free State Project!" -- Rep. Ron Paul

    FreeStateProject.org


    For on the ground information about the liberty movement in New Hampshire point your browser to www.RidleyReport.com

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