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Thread: New Third Party Idea - Feedback Requested

  1. #1

    New Third Party Idea - Feedback Requested

    Can a third party effort succeed?

    Yes, I believe it's possible. That said, some things are going to have to change before it can happen. In particular, I'm doubtful whether the LP or the CP will ever be able to garner the necessary support to seriously threaten the establishment and bring about change. The LP has too many public perception issues, has rarely seemed serious about winning elections, and now has the Bob Barr implosion problem. For its part, the CP turns some people off with the religious language in its platform and is thus limited in its potential appeal.

    So, what to do?

    I have given a great deal of thought to this issue, and I invite your comments on two items I will post below. The first is an article I wrote in which I outline a general plan by which I think a third party could succeed. The second is a general statement of principles that could serve as the root platform for such a party. A few friends and I have chosen to call this "the American Freedom Party," but that could always change if the name was not popular. At the moment, it's a placeholder to give the idea an identity.

    Again, all feedback would be appreciated. I believe that this idea is worth pursuing, as it could help unite Ron Paul revolutionaries of all backgrounds; unfortunately, I personally lack the funds and influence to seriously promote it. If you like the idea, please let me know, and pass it along to anyone else you think might be interested.

    ***

    Time to Go: the Case for a New Third Party

    - originally published February 16 at: http://jeffersonian73.blogspot.com/2...ird-party.html

    “Can two walk together, except they be agreed?” – Amos 3:3


    With Super Tuesday behind us, and John McCain’s straight-razor express belching smoke with a new vigor, I think it’s time that we conservatives and libertarians were honest with ourselves: the Republican Party can no longer even nominally call itself the home of limited government ideals.

    It’s dead, Jim. Stick a tag on its toe and wheel it down to the morgue. And given the way it treated Ron Paul, his ideals and his supporters, I say “Good riddance!”

    For awhile, many of us thought that it might be revived. There was hopeful talk among conservatives and libertarians to the effect that, “The spirit of liberty isn’t totally gone yet in the GOP – we can still bring it back.” The patient was in critical condition but seemed to have a faint heartbeat (brain activity is another matter).

    Well, I’m now convinced that the heartbeat we were listening to during all of that time was our own. It’s a situation akin to a doctor hovering over a deceased patient, but with the stethoscope pressed to his own chest, all the while muttering, “He’s still in there. I can save him!” We conservatives and libertarians were the heartbeat of liberty in the GOP all along, and it’s time that we realize this and leave the corpse to rot in peace.

    But what options do we have if we leave?

    Among existing third parties, the Libertarian and Constitution Parties seem the most congenial for homeless conservatives and libertarians of the Ron Paul persuasion; at least ideologically speaking. In reality, however, the Libertarian Party is sagging under the weight of negative perception baggage, and it never has seemed serious about winning elections; whereas the Constitution Party, for all of its commendable points, will probably never have broad enough appeal to be successful, due to the religious language in its platform (and I say that as a Christian).

    Consequently, I think the best path forward for homeless Ron Paul revolutionaries is to form a new third party. Now I’m aware that this is not going to be a welcome idea in many quarters, due to the fact that third parties have become virtually synonymous with political futility and kookery. But Americans are unquestionably looking for alternatives, and I can’t help but wonder if perhaps all of those failed, previous efforts might not teach us something about how to do it right.

    Here’s what I have in mind:


    Key Points:


    1. Message

    Past third party efforts have suffered from two primary ailments in this area: they have either limited their appeal by adhering to a narrow focus (a single issue or a small slate of issues), or they have simply offered the public a new form of statism, for which the Democrats and Republicans already serve in stellar capacity.

    What is needed is a message that is different enough to set us apart from the major parties, and broad enough to draw support from virtually every political corner. For this, I suggest a two-sided approach to policy: federalism at home, and non-interventionism abroad.

    Federalism:

    My greatest disappointment with the Ron Paul campaign is that it has practically ignored the issue of federalism, which I think is critical, and which could have generated as much support for Dr. Paul as the war issue, if not more. In interview after interview and debate after debate, Dr. Paul consistently stated that he was in favor of “following the Constitution,” and that he wanted to roll the federal government back to its rightful place, but he never really explained what those things mean in a way that would resonate with average Americans. On most occasions, he simply didn’t have enough time, but I do think the issue could have been hit much harder than it was.

    What I had hoped to hear during one of the debates was something like this:

    “Americans are clearly not of one mind on every issue, so why should we have to live under the same laws? Imagine an America where California and Virginia could agree to disagree on the issue of abortion. Imagine if Massachusetts and South Carolina could agree to disagree on the issue of gay marriage. Imagine being able to go to the polls and cast a vote on such important issues without having to worrying about being overruled by a federal judge!

    “Our founding fathers understood that not everyone wanted to live under the same laws. That’s why they crafted our Constitution so that the federal government had only certain, specific powers, and everything else was left up to the states, to be decided as their people saw fit. Today, though, politicians in Washington use our tax dollars to try and force us all to live by their edicts, by what they and their special interest friends want for us, instead of how we ourselves would choose to live. They want power. They want control. But they can only have these things if we let them. We can take the reins of our lives back again, if we will. By disempowering Washington we empower ourselves. Your choice is clear tonight (points to the other candidates): you can choose his plan for your life, or his plan for your life, or his plan for your life, or my plan to give you back your life.”


    There is real dynamite in the message of federalism. It’s a simple, appealing idea. Show the blue staters how they can protect themselves against the red staters, and vice versa, and I think the argument will almost sell itself.


    Non-interventionism:

    We all know that Americans are sick of the Iraq war, and have no interest in repeating the mistake elsewhere, so the message of non-interventionism has a lot going for it. Ron Paul has been preaching this sermon consistently, and it was the issue that really catapulted his campaign into the national spotlight. Given that none of the establishment candidates are going to do anything substantive to change our failed foreign policy, I expect public disenchantment to continue to grow in this area, especially among the young (they don’t like being sent off to die for other peoples’ legacies – who knew?).

    To see more on how these principles could translate into a party platform, see the American Freedom Party.

    2. Grassroots level outreach and growth

    Third parties typically squander their meager resources on promoting long-shot presidential candidates, when they should be working to spread their message among average Americans instead. Think about it for a moment: when was the last time you saw a newspaper ad for the Libertarian Party, or heard a radio spot for the Constitution Party? When was the last time either of them canvassed your neighborhood and left material on your doorstep? Or set up a billboard in town? Or sponsored a rally?

    Whatever the long-term results of the Ron Paul Revolution might prove to be, I think the most significant to date is that is has put tens of thousands of like-minded individuals in contact with one another, in meet-up groups and chat rooms from coast to coast. If a new party came together, these groups could quickly become its affiliates. They would be a tremendous basis upon which to continue to spread the message of peace and freedom, far more so than anything available to any existing third party…and they’re already present in every state.

    Consider what such groups have already accomplished to date. Reflect on the millions of dollars this grassroots revolution has raised. Consider the effectiveness of our writing and telephone campaigns, of how we have repeatedly made the establishment squirm over the last few months. Rudy Giuliani couldn’t go anywhere without Ron Paul supporters heckling him; and Fox News will surely never regain the credibility (or the audience) it once had.

    All of this with so little formal organization! To call it inspiring would be an understatement. Given the powerful forces arrayed against us, the progress we’ve made is nothing short of incredible; and we must not let that momentum slip away. By all indications, we have difficult times ahead of us. We’re going to need one another’s support if we’re to defend what is left of our freedom, and we’re going to need to be ready with answers on those occasions when the establishment falls on its face.


    Objections:

    What about ballot access issues and getting into the debates?

    Again, the meet-up groups scattered across the country are potential state affiliate parties, and I think they could organize and get enough signatures to obtain ballot access before the mid-term elections. They’ve already demonstrated that they can canvass effectively, so I don’t think that’s an unrealistic expectation at all.

    Once ballot access is achieved, the key to maintaining it with the least amount of effort and expense will be to target the right elections, particularly those where a major party candidate is running unopposed. Third party candidates can pick up a lot of protest votes in such races. For instance, the Wyoming Libertarian Party was able to gain major party status a few years ago, due to just such a scenario.

    We should also make it a goal to highlight the unfairness of current ballot access laws, and to press for change. A little pressure can go a long way, and, if anything, this movement has demonstrated that it can apply pressure and get results.

    Where the presidential debates are concerned, the requirement is that a candidate be polling at 15% in order to be invited; and, truth be told, if we aren’t polling near that level, we probably shouldn’t be running anyone for president. The key there is to do our job at the grassroots level, working to spread the word and build the party to the point where we’ll have the numbers we need. Ross Perot was able to do this as recently as 1992. During the general election he received more votes than George Bush in Maine, and more than Bill Clinton in Utah, and might have done even better had he not dropped out of the race for a time (and if he had had a better Vice Presidential running mate).

    What about the perception that third parties can’t win?

    No mistake about it, this will be a public relations battle, and what needs to be emphasized is that anyone who wants change must be willing to work for it, and to take a chance on it: “We will never have change if we keep electing the same old people who will continue to do things the same old way,” etc. It should also be emphasized that this perception serves the interests of the major parties, both of which would like us to think that we can’t do without them. This point should be incorporated into the overall call for freedom from Washington. The more we equate the major parties with Washington and its corruption, the more people will be willing to send their votes elsewhere; and the more noise we make, the more influential, and thus viable, we will appear to voters.

    What about how long it will take to build influence?

    If we concentrate on getting the word out to the extent that we should, I think we’ll be surprised by how quickly we’ll grow. There are significant numbers of Americans that either do not vote or else have fallen out of the system; the Ron Paul campaign has demonstrated that these people are reachable and winnable. It has also demonstrated that America’s young people are very much open to the message of peace and freedom, and that they are politically homeless and frustrated.

    Finally, bear in mind that it will not be necessary for us to capture the White House or majorities in Congress in order to have influence. The more the merrier, of course, but votes in Congress are sometimes close enough that even a couple of congressmen or a single senator can wield considerable power. The same holds true with state legislatures.


    What about the fact that so many Americans like statism just fine?

    Unfortunately, many Americans do like statism, but the good news is that statists are divided into camps, and they don’t get along. Liberals tend to want to control our wallets, while conservatives would usually prefer to invade our bedrooms (when foreign countries aren’t available, anyway). These are generalizations, of course, but they’re reasonably accurate; and I believe that such differences present us with the very real potential of breaking up the cartel in Washington D.C. Again, it’s a matter of showing the blue staters how they can protect themselves against the red staters, and vice versa.

    Under a return to federalism, states could make their own policies concerning issues like abortion, gay marriage, medical marijuana, etc., and the potential for this kind of freedom will appeal to both sides of the aisle. Some will use it to commit outrages against liberty, while others will use it to protect liberty. If, on the other hand, the federal government retains its current powers (and expands on them), the likelihood is that all we’re going to see is a continuous stream of outrages, and there will be no escaping them. For instance, under federalism, if New York ever decided to outlaw home schooling, home school families could flee elsewhere. If, on the other hand, the federal government ever started to regulate it, they would be trapped no matter where they were within the United States.

    Thus the potential of what I’m suggesting here is the ability to better preserve our liberties by forcing statists to fight us for control of fifty state governments, rather than one national government. Additionally, as I pointed out under the “influence” question, we don’t necessarily need majorities to have an impact on the system. Every single person we send to an elected office has potential to obstruct the decay of our freedoms.


    Summary

    I started this article with a quote from the Old Testament book of Amos – “Can two walk together, except they be agreed?” It is evident that the friends of freedom can no longer pretend to walk in agreement with the GOP establishment. The party has set itself intractably against the Jeffersonian principles of non-interventionism, limited government, and individual liberty, and it has done everything in its power to silence contrary voices.

    How much longer will we continue to allow the GOP elite to stymie us? In many ways, Ron Paul style conservatives and libertarians are already operating like a third party within the GOP. I’m suggesting that we just go ahead and make it official. We have the right message at the right time in history. The question is: do we have the vision and the will?

    Even more fundamentally, given the enormity of what is at stake, do we have a choice?


    "An army of principles will penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot...neither the Rhine, the Channel nor the ocean can avert its progress. It will march on the horizon of the world, and it will conquer." – Thomas Paine
    ***
    Introducing the American Freedom Party

    A small group of concerned, "politically homeless" citizens have started what we call the American Freedom Party. We believe we have the right message at the right time in history.

    Our agenda is simple:

    * Non-interventionism abroad
    * Renewed federalism and devolution at home (Americans make most of their important political decisions on a state-by-state basis, as opposed to Washington's one-size-fits-all approach)


    We feel that most third party efforts have failed for two main reasons: either their agendas have been too narrow to generate broad appeal, or they wasted time and money trying to run long-shot presidential candidates when they should have been spreading the word and building state parties. We are seeking to overcome these hardships by adopting a simple but broad agenda, and by working to build up recognition at the grassroots level instead of campaigning for high office right away.

    Our motto is: "Reclaiming liberty, the first American dream".

    To join our discussion, please visit our Yahoo message group. We can use all the help we can get:

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/American_Freedom_Party/

    The following Statement of Principles will tell you a bit more about where we stand:

    ***

    Preamble

    The American Freedom Party is a 21st Century effort to revive the revolutionary vision and founding principles that first made the United States of America possible, and later allowed it to become freedom's shining city on a hill, a beacon of hope for all mankind.

    Over time, the original vision of America's founders has been lost. It has been systematically supplanted by special interests and corrupt politicians who have abused the public trust and have overthrown the Constitution's plan for limited government in favor of consolidating power in Washington D.C. Political agendas have crept into the halls of justice. Irresponsible fiscal policy has swelled our country's debt to astronomical heights and threatens to bring our economy crashing down around us. Interventionist foreign policies have unnecessarily spilled our dearest blood and treasure all across the planet. America's prestige throughout the world has faltered. Political debate at home is increasingly strident. Unelected bureaucrats are coming to control the smallest details of our everyday lives. Onerous taxes and regulations are driving American businesses and jobs overseas. Families struggle more to get by on less as prices rise. We no longer see our way clearly into the future.

    The time has come for change, for a new renaissance of freedom and opportunity. The American Freedom Party hopes to lead the way by restoring our country's most beloved ideals to the halls of government, and by removing every obstacle that stands in the way of individual Americans pursuing their happiness and rising to the heights of their potential.


    Statement of Principles

    Americans do not have rulers, they have elected representatives.

    The Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land. As such, its provisions have a definite meaning, may not be changed except by the formal amendment processes described in Article VII of that document, and may not be superceded by the dictates of any international body. The Constitution's purpose was to provide for a federal government that would allow the states of the American Union to peacefully co-exist with one another and with the nations of the world.

    The federal government has only those powers specifically delegated to it by the states via the Constitution. It was not designed, nor does the Constitution empower it, to regulate the internal affairs of the states and their citizens.

    The states of the American Union are sovereign bodies with the right to exercise all powers they have not specifically delegated to the Union via the Constitution. This country is too vast and its people are too diverse to be tightly controlled by Washington. Instead, each state should be able to determine its own institutions as its people see fit. This approach is best described as "unity in diversity".

    The United States of America is neither the world's policeman nor its rescue mission. Its role in international affairs should be restricted to facilitating trade and encouraging dialog between nations. Its military forces should be used only for defensive purposes, not in nation-building exercises. The best foreign aid we can provide is to encourage needy nations to embrace free trade and internal reforms that will enhance individual freedom and thus promote opportunity and prosperity.

    Every effort should be made to keep taxes as low as possible, so that individuals and families may be left with the maximum amount of their earnings for the furtherance and enjoyment of their lives. Government agencies should face routine audits to ensure they are using tax dollars wisely, a balanced budget amendment should be passed to end deficit spending, and the dollar should be returned to a sound basis (gold or silver backing).

    Courts are responsible for applying law, not making law or enforcing political agendas. Disputes over the meaning of laws should be referred back to the appropriate law-making bodies for clarification. As Thomas Jefferson maintained, disputes over the powers of the federal government versus those of the states should be referred to the people of the states instead of being arbitrarily decided by the federal courts, as it is not right that one of the parties in dispute should decide the matter, and as it is the "We, the people of the United States" who ratified the Constitution and are supreme over both the states and the federal government.

    The proper role of the United Nations (if any) is to serve as a forum for promoting understanding among the nations of the world, thus allowing for them to peacefully resolve their disputes. It must not be permitted to evolve into a global government with the power to tax and pass binding legislation.

    The United States of America owes its existence to immigrants who arrived on these shores long ago and struggled to build new lives for themselves. Americans should continue to welcome immigrants who share America's love of freedom and opportunity and wish to share in those blessings; however, we have the right, and duty, to police our country's borders in order to prevent incursions by those who wish to do us harm.

    The war against global terrorism should focus on hunting down known terrorists and destroying their networks. This can and should be accomplished without transforming the United States of America into an oppressive police-state, or by allowing the Executive Branch to become a dictatorship. We reject the practice of accumulating vast stores of information on American citizens who have not been accused of any crime, which only detracts from efforts to pursue real, known criminals. We reject the doctrine that American citizens can be held indefinitely without council, charge, or trial, all of which are rights that are protected by the Bill of Rights. We reject the idea that the President of the United States can decide which laws he will and will not obey, as he is as subject to the constraints of the law as any ordinary American citizen. We hold to the conviction that surrendering our freedom and way of life in the face of terrorism is tantamount to surrendering to the terrorists and allowing them to destroy us.

    Government should not attempt to replace the family or promote any certain values system. Values are a matter of individual conscience, and their instruction is properly the responsibility of parents, guardians, and private institutions such as churches. Governmental interference is inevitably political interference, and politics inevitably involves special interest agendas, which should not be forcefully subsidized with taxpayer funds.

    Federal education and social programs should be gradually devolved to the states, to be administered as they deem fit within their own borders. Individual states and their populations face many challenges that cannot be adequately addressed by Washington's typical one-size-fits-all approach, nor should millions of dependent persons be held hostage by partisan political wrangling at the national level. Devolution will allow states to administer such programs as best suits their individual needs, and will permit growth and experimentation that is currently impossible under top-down federal management. It would also permit states that face similar circumstances and share similar goals to partner in cooperative efforts, including by such means as revenue sharing. Further, with Washington D.C. out of the equation, there is less likelihood that any one political event, such as a government shut-down, would interrupt services and benefits for those who have come to be dependent upon them.
    Last edited by phoenix1861; 09-16-2008 at 02:45 PM.
    Robert Hawes
    http://jeffersonian73.blogspot.com
    Author: One Nation, Indivisible? A Study of Secession and the Constitution

    "You're so concerned with squabbling for the scraps from [the king's] table
    that you've missed your God-given right to something better."
    -- William Wallace, Braveheart



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  3. #2

  4. #3
    IMPOSSIBLE (let's do it)!!!!!!!!!


    (i disagree on federalism though, but that's ok)
    Dude, I'm rich! Check out this tin can! Uber wealth, ftw!

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by constituent View Post
    IMPOSSIBLE (let's do it)!!!!!!!!!


    (i disagree on federalism though, but that's ok)
    you prefer centralized power?

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by constituent View Post
    IMPOSSIBLE (let's do it)!!!!!!!!!
    It's so crazy it just might work!!

    Seriously, I think this is all very well thought out. Based on what I see here, I'd be happy to join that party. I do feel like none of the established parties represent me anymore which leaves me Independent or nothing at this point.
    Courage ~ Strength ~ Integrity
    RON PAUL 2012
    ----------------------
    Visit Planet ToLive
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    It's Thirteen O'Clock
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    "I am surprised at the suddenness, as well as the greatness of this revolution. Is not the change we have seen astonishing? What man, two years ago, would have thought it possible?"
    - John Adams, July 3, 1776

  7. #6
    Unity means compromise. In order to create a new party it must have a wide base of appeal, be able to raise money, have a volunteer grassroots movement, play to win, have pro bono lawyers, have a ballot access campaign that aims for all 50 states. All this is very hard and many of us must be willing to compromise on many issues. It will require us having a big tent mentality and allow Greens, Naderites, and others to join and should be encouraged. The problem is many of us have strong personalities and passion that we feel compromise would be bad, because we feel we are on the right side so unfortunately until many of us, like Dr Paul who see that there are some things You CANNOT compromise on, but can have common ground with a wide spectrum of citizens without giving up on your principles, that is what will create a movement to topple the status quo...

  8. #7
    We are forming the Conservative Party, which intends to have a broad based appeal to all American Conservatives, which is basically libertarianism, as the original ideals of British America on its independence were those of individual rights, hence conservatives should be conserving the American ideals of small, local, government. We have people in California, Minnesota, New Jersey, Washington, and West Virginia already. Hopefully I can setup a website by month's end.
    http://www.ronpaul2012.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by GK Chesterton
    It is often supposed that when people stop believing in God, they believe in nothing. Alas, it is worse than that. When they stop believing in God, they believe in anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rt. Hon. Edmund Burke
    Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ACUTS View Post
    Unity means compromise. In order to create a new party it must have a wide base of appeal, be able to raise money, have a volunteer grassroots movement, play to win, have pro bono lawyers, have a ballot access campaign that aims for all 50 states. All this is very hard and many of us must be willing to compromise on many issues. It will require us having a big tent mentality and allow Greens, Naderites, and others to join and should be encouraged. The problem is many of us have strong personalities and passion that we feel compromise would be bad, because we feel we are on the right side so unfortunately until many of us, like Dr Paul who see that there are some things You CANNOT compromise on, but can have common ground with a wide spectrum of citizens without giving up on your principles, that is what will create a movement to topple the status quo...
    Compromise is what states' rights and local government are all about. If they want to have their agenda, their state and local governments can implement them, and they shouldn't force them on people who buy-and-large don't want them.
    http://www.ronpaul2012.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by GK Chesterton
    It is often supposed that when people stop believing in God, they believe in nothing. Alas, it is worse than that. When they stop believing in God, they believe in anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rt. Hon. Edmund Burke
    Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimnir Wotansvolk View Post
    you prefer centralized power?
    I prefer power be left in the hands of the individual myself.

    but i'm willing to compromise a little, for now.
    Dude, I'm rich! Check out this tin can! Uber wealth, ftw!

  12. #10

    re: New Third Party Idea - Feedback Requested

    Thanks for the comments, everyone. Please spread it around as you see fit.
    Robert Hawes
    http://jeffersonian73.blogspot.com
    Author: One Nation, Indivisible? A Study of Secession and the Constitution

    "You're so concerned with squabbling for the scraps from [the king's] table
    that you've missed your God-given right to something better."
    -- William Wallace, Braveheart

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix1861 View Post
    Can a third party effort succeed?
    There is no reason it cannot, were it not for everyone's agreement by rote that it is impossible.



    I have given a great deal of thought to this issue...
    I, as well.



    Among existing third parties, the Libertarian and Constitution Parties seem the most congenial for homeless conservatives and libertarians of the Ron Paul persuasion; at least ideologically speaking. In reality, however, the Libertarian Party is sagging under the weight of negative perception baggage, and it never has seemed serious about winning elections; whereas the Constitution Party, for all of its commendable points, will probably never have broad enough appeal to be successful, due to the religious language in its platform (and I say that as a Christian).
    Taking abortion off the table is key. Women’s reproductive rights have no place in politics, and no one is going anywhere without the support of women. It’s the largest voting bloc in the nation.



    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix1861 View Post
    What is needed is a message that is different enough to set us apart from the major parties, and broad enough to draw support from virtually every political corner.
    I am inclined to call it the Third Party. It is straightforward, less contrived…as men and women of Reason are determined that government should be. It rolls off the tongue casually…’I usually vote Third Party.’
    Last edited by cheapseats; 09-25-2008 at 02:54 AM.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix1861 View Post
    What is needed is a message that is different enough to set us apart from the major parties, and broad enough to draw support from virtually every political corner.
    Messages abound. Speak the truth.

    For real change.

    There's talking about change, and there's changing.

    If you do the same thing, you will get the same results.

    Face it...they're a bunch of crooks.

    As American as Earth, Wind & Fire.

    As American as Life, Liberty & the Pursuit Of Happiness.

    We are not obliged to repeat mistakes.

    Because we hate each other less than they hate us.

    Because the other parties are doing a crappy job.

    The only thing stopping us is us.

    America Loves Underdogs.

    If you're not with us, you're with one of THEM...'nuf said.



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