So America should have never happened for the safety of the native Americans? And I thought my stance was fringe. You sir, take the cakeOriginally Posted by Dsylexic
I'm sure you'll make an exception for that, a "they were patriots" of sorts.
So America should have never happened for the safety of the native Americans? And I thought my stance was fringe. You sir, take the cake
No, all I am saying is that it is immoral to take an illiberal stand on immigration(ofcourse with the caveat that the welfare state should end first) mainly because the USA is a country of immigrants. The nation was founded by immigrants and it should remain free for immigration.
(false) patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel,as Samuel Johnson said,especially if it is based on "we are the best and you can go to hell " kind of sentiments .
US was created in 1776,but this land existed before 1776 and was witness to immense brutalities. That should never be forgotten. The native americans didnt say to the Europeans -go to hell you carriers of small pox. The conflict was only because the europeans forcibly occupied their lands.
btw, the history books taught to kids in our schools need to start much before 1776 -the history of the european conquest of the americas should also be taught.otherwise it is another brainwashing session.
i have no problem with darwinism.-except the free trade and travel should continue even now irrespective of health conditions .commonsense quarantine measures are valid safety precautions and can be applied on sick immigrants like it used to be earlier.
qft.
Sir, I would be delighted to take this unpopular stance with you. As a lover of tribalism and true history and an anti-statist you hit the nail on the head for me.
I could give a crap less about the United States, all I care about is humanity, ecology and freedom.
Sure a republican form of government is just fine but the end DOES NOT justify the means (that's neocon talk)
What the European settlers did to the Indians dwarfs Hitlers genocide of the Jews.
"If a life could have a theme song -- and I believe every worthwhile one has -- mine is a religion, an obsession or a mania, or all of these expressed in one word: individualism. I was born with that obsession and have never seen and do not know now a cause more worthy, more misunderstood, more seemingly hopeless, and more tragically needed." -Ayn Rand
+1
I'm holding judgment on Kokesh because I haven't seen enough of him. I do like the fact he put Bob Barr on blast at the press conference...
But I totally agree with you in regards to Ventura. The guy is an inarticulate oof and is nowhere near the level of understanding RP has on the issues. Nevermind the fact he lives in Mexico, the MSM would have a field day with that if he ever decided to run.
Last edited by H Roark; 09-10-2008 at 07:46 PM.
I assume you're getting this from some other source other than his speech at the Rally?
Because the only thing I heard him mention about 9/11 is why has Bin Laden not been charged, yet our government in the media says he was behind it. Why is 9/11 not listed as one of his crimes on the FBI web site. I think these are valid questions. I'm not crazy, but I would like to know the answers to these questions as well. I mean, most people, when they kill one person usually get caught and put in the prison the rest of their lives. Bin Laden has killed thousands, and he's still on the loose?!?! And I've heard of no attempts to capture him in years now.
The only thing I heard him mention in his speech about immigration was that he didn't want to see a huge wall get built. And think most people agree with that as well. No where in his speech did he say he is fine with illegals coming over and taking our jobs.
Pro-choice, I am personally fine with. It's never been on my plate as a major concern of mine. Even RP doesn't want to completely ban abortion. He just wants to leave it up to the states to decide and leave the Federal government out of it.
Last edited by RPDelegate; 09-11-2008 at 07:53 AM.
I'm not really impressed with that Kokesh guy either. Crazy $#@!ing vet with PTSD! But at least he has better hair than Ventura! That's gotta count for something!
Sorry, the Marine Corps didn't teach me to pull punches. Ever. And I don't intend to. Ever.
As for the conservativo-fascists on my campus, yes, neocons who use fear tactics like "Islamo-fascism Awareness Week" deserve to be called out as fascists. BTW, it was David Horowitz behind that one. Anyone here a fan of Horowitz? Didn't think so.
Yeah, I think Venturas presence at the Rally damaged the Rallys credibility a little bit. But i also think his line "Don't ever let anyone tell you that your vote was wasted, If your heart is not behind your candidate...." and so on, was a very powerful part of the rally. With that said, I respect Jesse Ventura because he is one of the few that says exactly what he feels and he found a way to get into office. Ya gotta love that.
Doesn't work for me, but thumbs up from me!
Actually, it wasn't your hair that we were admiring.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...39#post1657239
In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.
Come on now, Kokesh is also a snappier dresser. How could you forget that?
He's also the one who occasionally says some things that scare people or make them uncomfortable. Good for him.
Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi
Subtle, RockEnds, very subtle.Actually, it wasn't your hair that we were admiring.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...39#post1657239
Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi
Thanks.Subtle, RockEnds, very subtle.
Seriously, though. His courage is quite admirable.
In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.
I personally do not believe in being violent my man but if more good people were as brave as you are, America would be a much better place in which to live, that is for sure.(assuming that this is the real Kokesh of course....)
I don't "believe in being violent" either. I meant punches metaphorically here. But I am not afraid to use violence when all other means have been exhausted. "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible . . . "
It is important we bring the same commitment to our cause as our founders did.
and look at the pervert who posted this picture. Shamless.Actually, it wasn't your hair that we were admiring.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...39#post1657239
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...153914&page=17
Us ladies can get a little out of hand, sorry Adam.
"If a life could have a theme song -- and I believe every worthwhile one has -- mine is a religion, an obsession or a mania, or all of these expressed in one word: individualism. I was born with that obsession and have never seen and do not know now a cause more worthy, more misunderstood, more seemingly hopeless, and more tragically needed." -Ayn Rand
Amen to that!
It was DAFTEK. He was just on a testosterone high. It happens.We were all in shock and awe over the appearance at McCain's speech. I think it was actually our admiration that spawned this thread more than anything Adam said or did.
In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.
"make violent revolution inevitable"
Although I believe in peace and non-violence we have to understand it could come to this. Just think if they tried to take away our guns people.
"the beauty of the 2nd amendment is it will not be needed until the government tries to take it away" - thomas jefferson
EDIT
I also want to say, about commitment, would anyone here actually sign a document knowing that the government would be out the next day to hunt you down and kill you as was done with the declaration of independence? Do we have that commitment? I think Adam does. But hell, most here are afraid not to file income taxes in fear of a few months in jail. Protest and rallies are well and good but they don't amount to anything.
edit again: I don't think Ventura has this type of commitment although I think he serves a purpose in helping us reach our goals.
Last edited by berrybunches; 09-11-2008 at 01:14 PM.
"If a life could have a theme song -- and I believe every worthwhile one has -- mine is a religion, an obsession or a mania, or all of these expressed in one word: individualism. I was born with that obsession and have never seen and do not know now a cause more worthy, more misunderstood, more seemingly hopeless, and more tragically needed." -Ayn Rand
Oooo thanks for that quote! That should go into my 2nd amendment project.
This movement is diverse. No one here agrees with Ron Paul 100%.
I'm pro-choice, deal with it.
I didn't really care for Kokesh, to be honest.I like the guy and he probably is a better speaker then me, but I didn't care too much. This movement has gotten pretty truther, though.
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." -- Winston Churchill
Damn proud Classical Liberal/Minarchist!
This movement always had a truther element.
No, you are not the only one.
However, my personel opinion of these two men is meaningless. And so are those of everyone else here.
We need to entice the silent and apathetic masses to join our cause...a cause that is about much more than Adam Kokesh and Jesse Ventura. The problem is that having these two men in the forefront makes recruitment more dificult.
The vast majority of people cannot get behind the 9/11 truther logic...they don't yet beleive that goverment is bad enough to be systematically screwing them with inflation, they certainly can't take the leap of faithlessness in their government to believe that it could kill so many innocents for financial gain.
Having a guy like Adam talking about watering the tree of liberty smacks of a bit more revolution than most people are willing to see themselves commiting. Again, they are still having a hard time with the whole idea that maybe government isn't here to help them...how are they suppose to be driven to the verge of open warfare before they have even harnessed the anger they ignore with their apathy?
Those people who are "close" to joining us need to be brought into the fold with baby steps...they need to be slowly weened of the indoctrination they've recieved for their entire lives and slowly, methodically, shown how the government has been screwing them personally. The personal affronts of their government need to be used to cure their apathy.
Once it's personal, once they are engaged and with us, then they can conceptualize that maybe the truthers have some valid points, and so too may Adam. At least, they will be able to understand that the movement is about more than just them...which "outsiders" do not understand right now.
In other words, Jesse and Adam represent welcomed sects within this movement that are not so welcomed outside of us. They need to be quiet in order to bring more people to the cause to hear their case.
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