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Thread: Are you with us or against us?

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhys View Post
    iowa was sabotaged... by a teenaged supporter who destroyed the database of canvased supporters. We had no organization there on election day as a result because we had no names.
    Was the young man just stupid or did he not get his way on something?

    I seem to recall something about he didn't get the credit he felt he deserved for what he believed was his contribution?

    Some people will react that way - sabotage something they claim to support - when they don't get their way.
    Why can't everybody else leave everybody else alone?



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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by MsDoodahs View Post
    Was the young man just stupid or did he not get his way on something?

    I seem to recall something about he didn't get the credit he felt he deserved for what he believed was his contribution?

    Some people will react that way - sabotage something they claim to support - when they don't get their way.
    You bring up a good point.. something that was hammered home at the training for the precinct leadership summit.
    "This isn't about you."
    When it comes to representing the interest of your neighbors, it isn't about you.
    When it comes to being a grassroots lobbyist for your neighborhood, it isn't about you.
    And when it comes to reclaiming our constitutional republic, it isn't about you.

    If you are doing this for personal recognition and reward, you are here for the wrong reason.
    If you sabotage your work because someone didn't get on their knees before you... you are here for the wrong reason.

    If you are here to castrate the people trying to provide the tools for our success you are here for the wrong reasons.

    If you fit into the above categories... you know who you are... you are here for the wrong reasons.

    If you focus isn't a positive one, you are here for the wrong reasons.

    I like bradley, and i love him as a human who claims to want liberty... but right now, he is here for the wrong reasons.
    rewritten history with armies of their crooks - invented memories, did burn all the books... Mark Knopfler

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by torchbearer View Post
    I like bradley, and i love him as a human who claims to want liberty... but right now, he is here for the wrong reasons.
    You know my reasons? Interesting, please enlighten me...
    My review of the For Liberty documentary:
    digg.com/d315eji
    (please Digg and post comments on the HuffPost site)

    "This political train-wreck Republicans face can largely be traced to Bush’s philosophical metamorphosis from a traditional, non-interventionist conservative to the neoconservatives’ exemplar of a 'War President', and his positioning of the Republicans as the 'War Party'."

    Nicholas Sanchez on Bush's legacy, September 30, 2007.

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhys View Post
    iowa was sabotaged... by a teenaged supporter who destroyed the database of canvased supporters. We had no organization there on election day as a result because we had no names.
    The more important question, if there is something to this story (I have no idea), rests with the management of the campaign itself and the decision to put our entire campaign in the hands of one someone (regardless of their age). Data systems rely on backups and redundancies. These are top level problems.

    There are lots of reasons we lost Iowa and NH, including organization, counter-productive ads, etc.
    My review of the For Liberty documentary:
    digg.com/d315eji
    (please Digg and post comments on the HuffPost site)

    "This political train-wreck Republicans face can largely be traced to Bush’s philosophical metamorphosis from a traditional, non-interventionist conservative to the neoconservatives’ exemplar of a 'War President', and his positioning of the Republicans as the 'War Party'."

    Nicholas Sanchez on Bush's legacy, September 30, 2007.

  6. #95
    This is the perfect time to raise questions as the new organization is getting off the ground. If you want C4L to be around a few years from now then you had better get a good foundation of good people running it. Otherwise it will end up with nothing.

    For instance, Ron Paul just said they spent millions in Minnesota. I hope it was money well spent, but the march on Washington was done for forty thousand dollars.

    Did they spend too much? Who knows. But it would be nice to have an accounting.

    During the campaign several people called Ron Paul's congressional office in disgust, after seeing how supporters were being ignored at the campaign office. That would be unanswered email, letters and phone calls. You won't be able to win Iowa or New Hampshire if you ignore your volunteers who are working to get out the vote and if you ignore the donors who finance the staff.

    This is just basic courtesy and basic politics 101. The official campaign couldn't event get that right.

    If a congressional office ignores their constituents, they will soon be booted from office. In fact many of the most controversial Congressmen and Senators stay elected by providing outstanding constituent service, winning over members of the opposing party.

    Senator Jesse Helms was always targeted by democrats, but alway won reelection by responding to constituents. Even Democrats were impressed with Helms.

    So we have a right to question the organization. It will keep them on their toes. Competition will hopefully propell C4L and other grassroots groups to more effectiveness.

    We are the customers and we have a right to demand adequate service.

    Many orgnaizations act as if the customer doesn't matter, like the Federal Government. Hopefully, C4L would be responsive to the needs of those it serves and those who fund it.

  7. #96
    If there was embezzlement in the LP in 1988, I hope the party is more sound and worthy of its supporters today.

    I never liked the way Paul's campaign dropped the ball on NH and spent money frugally using 'evangelical' techniques...

    If the LibertyPAC exists, what exactly is the purpose of the CFL beyond its 'multimillion dollar' rally to show to the grassroots? The concept of PAC's on 'local politics' is an ethical gray area to me anyway.

    Bob Barr 2008.



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  9. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley in DC View Post
    You know my reasons? Interesting, please enlighten me...
    not your specific reason, but it doesn't fit in the positive categories.
    You enlighten me, because I don't understand the end game you are looking for...
    perhaps if you educate me to your enlightened ways, I will join you in your crusade.
    rewritten history with armies of their crooks - invented memories, did burn all the books... Mark Knopfler

  10. #98
    Imagine if the Ron Paul Campaign had spent the money on the Manchester Arena for several days and had invited everybody to New Hampshire to help out. He might have done a little better.

    The other campaigns had huge volunteer operations in Manchester and Ron Paul had this tiny office in Concord. Obama had eight to ten offices around the state.

    Clinton had several offices around the state and one huge office in New Hampshire with hundreds of college students bussed in from around the east coast.

  11. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by New York For Paul View Post
    Clinton had several offices around the state and one huge office in New Hampshire with hundreds of college students bussed in from around the east coast.
    what? what? what?

    that sounds like they were.... (gasp).... trying to win?

    the audacity!
    Dude, I'm rich! Check out this tin can! Uber wealth, ftw!

  12. #100
    Are you with us or against us?
    with

  13. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by torchbearer View Post
    not your specific reason, but it doesn't fit in the positive categories.
    You enlighten me, because I don't understand the end game you are looking for...
    perhaps if you educate me to your enlightened ways, I will join you in your crusade.
    I'm really, really bad at pop culture analogies, but would this be Monday morning quarterbacking?

    The campaign is over, Dr. Paul lost (despite all of our best efforts--and for a wide variety of reasons).

    Now IS the time for examining what we did right--and what didn't go well. Some (including two moderators here) still cling to the "dissent is unpatriotic" view and have been personally attacking and banning those who don't put blind faith in select human beings (we all have faults, we all fail at times).

    That attitude is destroying the forum (and, me thinks, why Josh suggested one not let the door hit her on the way out)--and the movement. When a moderator puts in her signature personal attacks against another forum member, you know they're not here for the forum or the movement. Dr. Paul himself never makes personal attacks.

    You're a "divider" if you don't agree that it's a delusional claim that there simultaneously had to be a brokered convention and that Dr. Paul had support from a majority of the delegates (the definition of a brokered convention is that no one candidate has majority support).

    More broadly, if our movement is to succeed (and what we got from this official campaign was failure, plain and simple), we need to ask hard questions and make honest and open analyzes.

    Doing the same thing and expecting different results is insanity. If anything, learning to copy what the official Ron Paul presidential campaign--emphatically not the successful congressional ones--is a recipe for more of what we got. We deserve better.
    My review of the For Liberty documentary:
    digg.com/d315eji
    (please Digg and post comments on the HuffPost site)

    "This political train-wreck Republicans face can largely be traced to Bush’s philosophical metamorphosis from a traditional, non-interventionist conservative to the neoconservatives’ exemplar of a 'War President', and his positioning of the Republicans as the 'War Party'."

    Nicholas Sanchez on Bush's legacy, September 30, 2007.

  14. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley in DC View Post
    I'm really, really bad at pop culture analogies, but would this be Monday morning quarterbacking?

    The campaign is over, Dr. Paul lost (despite all of our best efforts--and for a wide variety of reasons).

    Now IS the time for examining what we did right--and what didn't go well. Some (including two moderators here) still cling to the "dissent is unpatriotic" view and have been personally attacking and banning those who don't put blind faith in select human beings (we all have faults, we all fail at times).

    That attitude is destroying the forum (and, me thinks, why Josh suggested one not let the door hit her on the way out)--and the movement. When a moderator puts in her signature personal attacks against another forum member, you know they're not here for the forum or the movement. Dr. Paul himself never makes personal attacks.

    You're a "divider" if you don't agree that it's a delusional claim that there simultaneously had to be a brokered convention and that Dr. Paul had support from a majority of the delegates (the definition of a brokered convention is that no one candidate has majority support).

    More broadly, if our movement is to succeed (and what we got from this official campaign was failure, plain and simple), we need to ask hard questions and make honest and open analyzes.

    Doing the same thing and expecting different results is insanity. If anything, learning to copy what the official Ron Paul presidential campaign--emphatically not the successful congressional ones--is a recipe for more of what we got. We deserve better.
    what is the endgame? what changes are you trying to make with the information you put on the public forum?
    rewritten history with armies of their crooks - invented memories, did burn all the books... Mark Knopfler

  15. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley in DC View Post
    I'm really, really bad at pop culture analogies, but would this be Monday morning quarterbacking?
    Naah, i'll show you Monday morning quarterbacking

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley in DC
    Now IS the time for examining what we did right--and what didn't go well.

    Person A says:

    Ewww, he really slipped on the caps lock there.
    Person B says:

    Yes indeed person A.

    For the proper emphasis, he really should have gone with capsing the definite article.

    Such a shame...
    ^note comma crazy

    See, Monday morning quarterbacking is over pointless $#@! like football games and grammar. What you're talking about is more important things like moving forward, examining the issues that have proven hinderances, "changing course™" AND sUcceeding.

    Revolutions are for spinning your wheels (though they always make for one hell of a marketing ploy... ask Ronald Reagan and Comrade Lenin--there is less difference than you think).
    Last edited by constituent; 09-05-2008 at 06:56 PM.
    Dude, I'm rich! Check out this tin can! Uber wealth, ftw!

  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley in DC View Post
    You're a "divider" if you don't agree that it's a delusional claim that there simultaneously had to be a brokered convention and that Dr. Paul had support from a majority of the delegates (the definition of a brokered convention is that no one candidate has majority support).
    we couldn't even keep the lights on in NV and you think we were winning?
    Send a Ron Paul Satellite into space to broadcast his NYT Bestseller to the whole Universe

    http://www.ronpaulrocket.com

    Join the Team!



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  18. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhys View Post
    we couldn't even keep the lights on in NV and you think we were winning?
    I, for one, was and am hugely impressed with the movement Dr. Paul launched, yes.

    Had the campaign been competently led, there were great opportunities.

    McCain? Really? That is the best our party could nominate?
    My review of the For Liberty documentary:
    digg.com/d315eji
    (please Digg and post comments on the HuffPost site)

    "This political train-wreck Republicans face can largely be traced to Bush’s philosophical metamorphosis from a traditional, non-interventionist conservative to the neoconservatives’ exemplar of a 'War President', and his positioning of the Republicans as the 'War Party'."

    Nicholas Sanchez on Bush's legacy, September 30, 2007.

  19. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by torchbearer View Post
    what is the endgame? what changes are you trying to make with the information you put on the public forum?
    Start a process of critical examination--not the demonizing and banning and personal attacks on those asking the right questions like some mods are in the habit of doing.

    One leads to success, the other failure.

    (insert pithy and witty pop culture reference here)
    My review of the For Liberty documentary:
    digg.com/d315eji
    (please Digg and post comments on the HuffPost site)

    "This political train-wreck Republicans face can largely be traced to Bush’s philosophical metamorphosis from a traditional, non-interventionist conservative to the neoconservatives’ exemplar of a 'War President', and his positioning of the Republicans as the 'War Party'."

    Nicholas Sanchez on Bush's legacy, September 30, 2007.

  20. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley in DC View Post
    I, for one, was and am hugely impressed with the movement Dr. Paul launched, yes.

    Had the campaign been competently led, there were great opportunities.

    McCain? Really? That is the best our party could nominate?
    I didn't ask if you were impressed. Did you think we were winning?
    Send a Ron Paul Satellite into space to broadcast his NYT Bestseller to the whole Universe

    http://www.ronpaulrocket.com

    Join the Team!

  21. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhys View Post
    I didn't ask if you were impressed. Did you think we were winning?
    There were scenarios where we could have broken out from the pack, yes.

    Most REPUBLICANS in Iowa wanted the US out of Iraq in six months.

    The most sought after characteristic that NH independents and Republicans wanted was an "independent leader" as the nominee.

    Look at the reaction that Sarah Palin is getting (not that I would have known that then, obviously). There was a pent up demand for a new leader who provides a fresh start from Bush and could energize the grassroots.

    Sound like anyone?
    My review of the For Liberty documentary:
    digg.com/d315eji
    (please Digg and post comments on the HuffPost site)

    "This political train-wreck Republicans face can largely be traced to Bush’s philosophical metamorphosis from a traditional, non-interventionist conservative to the neoconservatives’ exemplar of a 'War President', and his positioning of the Republicans as the 'War Party'."

    Nicholas Sanchez on Bush's legacy, September 30, 2007.

  22. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley in DC View Post
    There were scenarios where we could have broken out from the pack, yes.

    Most REPUBLICANS in Iowa wanted the US out of Iraq in six months.

    The most sought after characteristic that NH independents and Republicans wanted was an "independent leader" as the nominee.

    Look at the reaction that Sarah Palin is getting (not that I would have known that then, obviously). There was a pent up demand for a new leader who provides a fresh start from Bush and could energize the grassroots.

    Sound like anyone?
    you're reaching... RP 'blames america' remember?
    Send a Ron Paul Satellite into space to broadcast his NYT Bestseller to the whole Universe

    http://www.ronpaulrocket.com

    Join the Team!

  23. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhys View Post
    you're reaching... RP 'blames america' remember?
    D'oh! I forgot!
    My review of the For Liberty documentary:
    digg.com/d315eji
    (please Digg and post comments on the HuffPost site)

    "This political train-wreck Republicans face can largely be traced to Bush’s philosophical metamorphosis from a traditional, non-interventionist conservative to the neoconservatives’ exemplar of a 'War President', and his positioning of the Republicans as the 'War Party'."

    Nicholas Sanchez on Bush's legacy, September 30, 2007.

  24. #111
    You guys bumping old threads to show how forward thinking you were two years ago. You are newbies!
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  25. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by klamath View Post
    So here is the gist of it. RP surounds himself with embezzlers, racists and crooks. He talks a good line, votes no in congress but his real ambition is to steal money and promote white racism. RP only wanted to be president so him and his goons could rob fort knox. He set up C4L to skim money from private donations. Boy have I been had. Now I feel like I did after believing "no nation building". Good God what a bunch of Trash I'm voting for McCain/Palin as at least she is cute.

    And Bradley if you think I am voting for tha slimy used car salesman Barr you can think again.
    Epic troll is epic.



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  27. #113
    Moral I get from Bradley's excellent thread: no one knows how to spend your money better than you.

    Over the last couple Ron Paul campaigns, I spent some money on signs (from independent, grassroots RP merchandise sites), paint and stencils and Tyvek making my own banners, donuts at the County Convention, and a bunch of stuff like that. I don't regret a penny of that. It was great fun, and we won the county, second go-around.

    I also gave some hundreds of dollars to the official campaign. Do I regret that? Not exactly "regret," but it was not a good use of money. They wasted my money on things I did not value, such as bribing Kent Sorenson and lining the pockets of staffers with payments I judge as too big (Jesse Benton's haul, just in 2012: $586,616).

    Lesson learned. Spend your own money. Don't donate it to a black box.

    I think AF would agree. AF spent some money on newspaper advertising in the 2012 election. Does he regret it? I'll bet he doesn't. I'll bet he thinks it was a good investment that paid off. Donations to Jesse Benton on the other hand? Maybe not so much.

    Jesse didn't really need our $586,616. If I had known Dr. Paul was going to give that money to Jesse, I may not have given it to him. But that's how it works with donations: you hand over the money, and then they do whatever in the world they please with it -- probably something very different than you would have done with it.
    Last edited by helmuth_hubener; 12-29-2014 at 01:11 PM.

  28. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Epic troll is epic.
    Epic ass as always. That post went way over your head even 6 years ago.
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

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