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Thread: Feeling safe -- teachers with guns?

  1. #1

    Feeling safe -- teachers with guns?

    Hi all,

    I was recently debating with someone regarding if teachers should be able to carry guns in schools. One thing that has gotten me stuck at is that a teacher may use the gun to threaten the class, the same way teachers used to use rulers to give discipline. In fact, he says that the teacher can have a bad temper and point the gun at an annoying kid. I've pointed out that you can always complain and change teachers, however that's highly unlikely in a public school system.

    So what are your thoughts on the issue? Also, this stemmed out from the school in Texas that allows for teachers to carry guns.

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...s.de0bca6.html

    Thanks!



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  3. #2
    I think the answer to this is to separate the government from schools so people can choose for themselves. Personally, though, I doubt I would choose a school like that.
    Ron Paul's best political writing? (link)

    "The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."
    -Robert A. Heinlein

  4. #3
    If you pull a gun on someone when the use of deadly force is not justified you will most likely end up in jail with a felony conviction. Whenever there is talk about liberalizing gun laws people come out of the woodwork saying things like this. The reality is that people don't go waving guns in people's faces at the slightest provocation. Most people understand the consequences of such reckless behavior.

  5. #4
    God didn't give us free will so that the government could take it away.

    -Me

    Chickenhawk - that's pretty damn good

  6. #5
    That sort of school would be my FIRST choice.

    I just do not see licensed Concealed Carry holders brandishing a weapon in front of a class of kids on account of being annoyed. CCW holders tend to be a little bit more mature than your average 10 year old...
    http://glenbradley.net/share/aleksan...nitsyn_4-t.gif “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  7. #6
    Teacher with gun pointed at student: Now Jimmy what is the square root of 144
    Jimmy: Erm...
    Teacher with gun pointed at student: Don't be afraid to get it wrong Jimmy there is no pressure.
    Jimmy: 4?
    *Bang*
    Teacher with gun pointed at student: Now on to Alex, where is he?
    Other Student: You disciplined him yesterday.

  8. #7
    Won't happen!
    Any teacher who un-holstered a pistol in front of a class full of students had better darned well have a good reason to do so. If it was found the teacher was just threatening students with it, the teacher would lose his job and probably end up in jail for brandishing a firearm.
    Last edited by Dr.3D; 08-24-2008 at 09:09 AM.

  9. #8
    "A person who does not trust me with the means to end their life is a person I cannot trust because it means they fear my reprisal. If they fear reprisal from me, it can only mean they plot against my life."
    "Anarchists oppose the State because it has its very being in such aggression, namely, the expropriation of private property through taxation, the coercive exclusion of other providers of defense service from its territory, and all of the other depredations and coercions that are built upon these twin foci of invasions of individual rights." -Murray Rothbard



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by roshie View Post
    Hi all,

    I was recently debating with someone regarding if teachers should be able to carry guns in schools. One thing that has gotten me stuck at is that a teacher may use the gun to threaten the class, the same way teachers used to use rulers to give discipline. In fact, he says that the teacher can have a bad temper and point the gun at an annoying kid. I've pointed out that you can always complain and change teachers, however that's highly unlikely in a public school system.

    So what are your thoughts on the issue? Also, this stemmed out from the school in Texas that allows for teachers to carry guns.

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...s.de0bca6.html

    Thanks!
    my thoughts are that if every/or majority law abiding citizen of this country were to open carry, criminals would all but vanish.

    edit: when I say criminals i mean street thugs...not the criminals the government.
    Last edited by JohnMeridith; 08-24-2008 at 09:59 AM.

  12. #10
    What about students feeling a bit uneasy in class because they know the teacher has a gun?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by roshie View Post
    What about students feeling a bit uneasy in class because they know the teacher has a gun?
    what? That's like saying since i have a penis girls should be worried about me raping them. Your logic is horrible and a product of the media, in reality, people should be more worried about a gunmen coming into the school and killing them than a teacher doing it.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMeridith View Post
    what? That's like saying since i have a penis girls should be worried about me raping them. Your logic is horrible and a product of the media, in reality, people should be more worried about a gunmen coming into the school and killing them than a teacher doing it.
    You know, that's what I'm stuck at. He's countering everything with a student feeling uneasy because of a teacher with a gun. I'll give it a shot though

  15. #13
    So what if a student feels uneasy about a teacher having a gun? I used to feel uneasy about the teacher having a paddle but then I realized I didn't have to worry because I never did anything that would require the teacher to use the paddle on me.

    The only student who should or would feel uneasy is the one who is thinking about bringing a gun into the school to do something he shouldn't do with it.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by roshie View Post
    What about students feeling a bit uneasy in class because they know the teacher has a gun?
    Are the students supposed to feel better about those school districts that have their own police force having officers roaming the schools with guns?

    Who can be trusted to have a firearm? The answer to that question tells you who you are dealing with in terms of reason vs. "feeling".

    If "feelings" are all that matter, how does the "feeling" of X that firearms in possession of teachers are unsafe balance against my "feeling" of safety that I get?

    Or are some people's "feelings" more important than others?
    Last edited by Pericles; 08-24-2008 at 02:48 PM.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by roshie View Post
    You know, that's what I'm stuck at. He's countering everything with a student feeling uneasy because of a teacher with a gun. I'll give it a shot though
    I guess if that is his "best" argument, there really isn't a debate. In my informed opinion, if thugs in this country were worried about the law abiding citizen being able to become the superior predator in a life and death situation, I would venture to guess school shootings in the past would never had happened along with most violent crime in general.


    Statistics are everywhere concerning stripping guns from law abiding citizens and the thuggery that escalates after the fact. I would say throw some cold hard facts of how gun control does the opposite of its promises and let your friend figure it out for himself.
    Last edited by JohnMeridith; 08-24-2008 at 02:49 PM.

  18. #16
    Government school teachers are, well, employees of the government. So yes, let's arm more government employees.......
    Ron Paul's best political writing? (link)

    "The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."
    -Robert A. Heinlein



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Government school teachers are, well, employees of the government. So yes, let's arm more government employees.......
    I would just have to point out that arming and increasing ENFORCEMENT personel is not what we need, I wouldn't lump teachers into that.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMeridith View Post
    I would just have to point out that arming and increasing ENFORCEMENT personel is not what we need, I wouldn't lump teachers into that.
    Doesn't arming teachers make them enforcement personnel? Or, really, they already are enforcement personnel, and arming them just gives them more power.
    Ron Paul's best political writing? (link)

    "The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."
    -Robert A. Heinlein

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Doesn't arming teachers make them enforcement personnel? Or, really, they already are enforcement personnel, and arming them just gives them more power.
    Does drawing a government paycheck mean that you give up your right to self defense and the means of doing so?
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Doesn't arming teachers make them enforcement personnel? Or, really, they already are enforcement personnel, and arming them just gives them more power.
    Does my carrying a pistol make me an enforcement person?

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles View Post
    Does drawing a government paycheck mean that you give up your right to self defense and the means of doing so?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Does my carrying a pistol make me an enforcement person?
    That depends. Are you a government employee, doing your job?
    Ron Paul's best political writing? (link)

    "The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."
    -Robert A. Heinlein

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Doesn't arming teachers make them enforcement personnel? Or, really, they already are enforcement personnel, and arming them just gives them more power.
    NO, nothing about arming them pertains to any federal enforcement agency. They aren't park rangers, atf, fbi, irs, homeland security etc, if you get the point i'm trying to make, they aren't proactively searching out and enforcing laws.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMeridith View Post
    NO, nothing about arming them pertains to any federal enforcement agency. They aren't park rangers, atf, fbi, irs, homeland security etc, if you get the point i'm trying to make, they aren't proactively searching out and enforcing laws.
    I think I get your point, but when it comes to the government (federal or not), I don't give them the benefit of the doubt.
    Ron Paul's best political writing? (link)

    "The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."
    -Robert A. Heinlein

  27. #24
    when they start giving them tactical training and tazers I'll be getting worried.



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  29. #25
    Slightly off-topic, but tell me how far-fetched this sounds: "Giving teachers guns is a little extreme. Let's give them tasers instead. Those aren't lethal, right..."
    Ron Paul's best political writing? (link)

    "The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."
    -Robert A. Heinlein

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Slightly off-topic, but tell me how far-fetched this sounds: "Giving teachers guns is a little extreme. Let's give them tasers instead. Those aren't lethal, right..."
    i would be more worried with the tazers hhaha. look how cops love lighting up people now

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMeridith View Post
    i would be more worried with the tazers hhaha. look how cops love lighting up people now
    Indeed
    Ron Paul's best political writing? (link)

    "The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."
    -Robert A. Heinlein

  32. #28
    Indeed -- teachers (holding CCW permits) carrying guns I'm perfectly OK with. Teachers carrying tazers I am not.

    And just because someone happens to receive a state paycheck and will be authorized to carry a weapon during the time for which said paycheck is issued, does not make them law enforcement.

    What happens if there is a huge rash of attacks on postal delivery people? Maybe Fed.Gov says 'ok, you can carry for personal defense' does that make a Postal delivery person a law enforcement officer?

    A primary distinction here may be the difference between a permitted personally owned weapon, and a mandated government-issued weapon. If, for instance, State.Gov or Fed.Gov came down and said that it will be REQUIRED for teachers to carry, and further therefore the .Gov will be issuing them weapons; well then I too would start to believe that the DOE has become another arm of law enforcement, and would go the distance to stop it in it's tracks.
    http://glenbradley.net/share/aleksan...nitsyn_4-t.gif “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    If, for instance, State.Gov or Fed.Gov came down and said that it will be REQUIRED for teachers to carry, and further therefore the .Gov will be issuing them weapons; well then I too would start to believe that the DOE has become another arm of law enforcement, and would go the distance to stop it in it's tracks.
    This is the kind of thing I was talking about...I can see how personal weapons aren't as bad. They're still government employees in positions of authority though, so I think some distrust is always in order.
    Ron Paul's best political writing? (link)

    "The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."
    -Robert A. Heinlein

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by roshie View Post
    Hi all,

    I was recently debating with someone regarding if teachers should be able to carry guns in schools. One thing that has gotten me stuck at is that a teacher may use the gun to threaten the class, the same way teachers used to use rulers to give discipline.
    Sometimes, you just have to not talk to dumbasses. It's a waste of time when you could be having a more intelligent conversation with someone else.
    We have allies many of you are not aware of. Watch the tube. Show this to your 30 and under friends. Listen to it. Even if you don't like rap, it has 2.7 million views.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmBnvajSfWU#t=0m16s

    Cut off one min early to avoid war porn.



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