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Thread: Ron Paul followers pose danger for McCain in West

  1. #1

    Ron Paul followers pose danger for McCain in West

    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...XiZUQD928MAI00

    Ron Paul followers pose danger for McCain in West
    By KATHLEEN HENNESSEY – 8 hours ago

    LAS VEGAS (AP) — Dueling delegations pitting Ron Paul's Nevada supporters against those of John McCain vow to take their fight to the Republican National Convention.

    That's just one sign that the outsider, Internet-fueled movement led by the feisty Republican congressman from Texas remains afloat in the wake of McCain's victory in the GOP primaries.

    In the libertarian-leaning West, where Paul's message of distrust of the federal government and ardent individualism played particularly well, there is talk of Republicans straying from McCain. Libertarian candidate Bob Barr has emerged as a favorite alternative for Paul activists, followed by Constitutional Party candidate Chuck Baldwin.

    Even if the numbers of such dissenters are small, in tight contests in key Western states they could spoil McCain's chances, experts say.

    "In Nevada, there's absolutely enough to have an effect on the election," said Chuck Muth, a leading conservative activist in a state in which early polls show McCain and Democratic candidate Barack Obama in a statistical tie.

    "I think that you will see not just Libertarians who always vote for the Libertarian candidate but conservative Republicans saying we've had it, we've had enough and they're going to go ahead and vote Libertarian," Muth said.

    Paul — or "Dr. Paul," as his followers reverently refer to the obstetrician-turned-politician — ran as the Libertarian Party nominee for president in 1988. But this year he carved out a following as an antiestablishment Republican. His campaign won more than 1 million votes and became a catchall for anti-war, anti-government voters and disaffected Republicans.

    The eclectic coalition racked up significant numbers. Paul placed second — ahead of McCain — in Republican caucuses in Nevada and Montana. He posted strong showings in nominating contests in Colorado, Washington and Oregon. In early June, he pulled away 14 percent of the vote from the already certain nominee in the New Mexico primary.

    This is the West that McCain must win.

    The interior West generally has been friendly territory for Republicans seeking the White House. Nevada, Montana and Colorado voted for George W. Bush in 2000 and 2004.

    But history also warns of the impact of feisty Texans who preach small government.

    "There's little doubt Bill Clinton would not have won Montana if it weren't for Ross Perot," said Bob Brown, a senior fellow at the Center for the Rocky Mountain West at the University of Montana. "And I think it's clear those votes were Republican."

    The same could be said of Nevada, New Mexico and Colorado, states where the two-time independent candidate for president is often given credit for Clinton's breaking a two-decade-long Republican presidential winning streak in 1992.

    The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4.

    "At the end of the day, Republicans are going to vote for John McCain. He's a Western candidate who understands water issues, land issues. He's a fiscal conservative," said Rick Gorka, a campaign spokesman. "His message is appealing to a broad spectrum of voters."

    There's little sign of that unification yet. In Nevada, state GOP officials abruptly shut down the state convention as a group of well-organized newcomers were poised to win delegates for Paul.

    The group led by Paul supporters then held its own rogue convention and elected its own delegates. For its part, the state party couldn't get enough delegates to attend a second convention and appointed delegates by committee. A judge ruled against the Paul supporters when they filed suit. They now plan to file a challenge with the Republican National Committee.

    Both groups are heading to the national convention in St. Paul, Minn.

    "We're trying to say, 'Hey, you guys got to play by the rules, and if you don't, you'll face the consequences,'" said Wayne Terhune, a 57-year-old dentist in Sparks, Nev., and a leading Paul activist in the state. "They just took the football and went home."

    Even without Nevada, Paul will send at least a handful of delegates to the national convention. Outside the convention hall, his supporters have reserved a 15,000-seat basketball arena for a "mini-convention."

    Paul hasn't endorsed, but it is clear whom he is not supporting.

    "I do encourage all the alternatives, obviously, because I can't support either of the two candidates from the Republican or Democratic parties," Paul said this month in an interview on Revolution Radio, an Internet-based station run by his supporters. "I think that might send a message."

    In interviews with a dozen Paul voters from around the West, anti-administration sentiment rang loudest. Most were newly active in politics but had been regular Republican voters. They said their activism began with opposition to the Bush administration's foreign policy.

    As newcomers, they expressed little party allegiance and little concern that their third-party votes could benefit Obama, a candidate even further from their views than McCain.

    "The notion is, let's just break the GOP because the people who are running and holding office in it aren't respecting what the constituents want," said Jay Weeldreyer, a Paul field director in Renton, Wash. "So, if we can just let them suffer a massive loss, then maybe that will get through to them."



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  3. #2
    "I think that you will see not just Libertarians who always vote for the Libertarian candidate but conservative Republicans saying we've had it, we've had enough and they're going to go ahead and vote Libertarian," Muth said.
    This guy hits the nail on the head. I am one of those repubs who have had enough
    Don't let others get you down. Not naysayers, not pretenders, not appeasers, not opportunists; none of em.

    What others do pales beside what YOU do.

    Press on! - The r3VOLution continues...

    "Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."

    ~ C.Coolidge

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by raystone View Post
    The same could be said of Nevada, New Mexico and Colorado, states where the two-time independent candidate for president is often given credit for Clinton's breaking a two-decade-long Republican presidential winning streak in 1992.
    Huh?

    Jimmy Carter we hardly knew ye!
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  5. #4
    "The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4."

    LOL they really are in a alternate reality aren't they.

  6. #5
    "At the end of the day, Republicans are going to vote for John McCain. He's a Western candidate who understands water issues, land issues. He's a fiscal conservative," said Rick Gorka, a campaign spokesman. "His message is appealing to a broad spectrum of voters."

    I LOL'd

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahApocalypse View Post
    "The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4."

    LOL they really are in a alternate reality aren't they.
    I was thinking the same thing. lol
    The more laws and order are made prominent,
    The more thieves and robbers there will be.
    ~Lao-tzu

    "Do not believe anything because it is said by an authority, or if it is said to come from angels, or from Gods, or from an inspired source. Believe it only if you have explored it in your own heart and mind and body and found it to be true."~ Buddha

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by raystone View Post
    That's just one sign that the outsider, Internet-fueled movement ...
    Or the opposite: "just one sign that an insider, MSM-fueled non-movement..." (i.e. McCain).
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


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  9. #8
    Hit the gong and saying they are wrong. Not a chance I will vote for McCain. And, I am not young.

    No vote as a last resort. I am still watching to see who Dr. Paul will support.



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  11. #9
    This is another old republican that won't come to McCain. This will be the first year in my political life that I can watch the election returns without emotion. We will be f**ked one way or another.
    War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.

  12. #10
    As newcomers, they expressed little party allegiance and little concern that their third-party votes could benefit Obama, a candidate even further from their views than McCain.

    "The notion is, let's just break the GOP because the people who are running and holding office in it aren't respecting what the constituents want," said Jay Weeldreyer, a Paul field director in Renton, Wash. "So, if we can just let them suffer a massive loss, then maybe that will get through to them."
    sort of, but not really. I consider myself a dedicated Republican based on the traditional principles of the party, and I think I hold more party allegiance than those who say and vote R, but legislate opposite to R. It's those RINO's that are the problem, not me. In order to send a message to these R-elected representatives and to the party leadership, I must let my vote be my voice. This is done to try to save the party, not to destroy it.
    The bigger government gets, the smaller I wish it was.
    My new motto: More Love, Less Laws

  13. #11

    Watch out for Muth

    Quote Originally Posted by ronpaulhawaii View Post
    This guy hits the nail on the head. I am one of those repubs who have had enough
    He may get a sentence right here and there, but he is infamous for his "Paultard" and other disparaging and condescending remarks about those of us in Nevada who support Dr. Paul. And yes, that is the appropriate way to refer to him. For heaven's sake, he is a doctor! We could not, for example, reverently call McCain (even if we wanted to) Dr. McCain...jeesh, anyway to get in a dig these media folks. Remember the long thread from yesterday and the day before wherein Mike Davis got very involved...another blogger? Well, my guess is he and Muth are one and the same, or....they are brothers or mimicking one another - they definitely both crawled out from under the same rock in the desert of Nevada. Muth gets a lot more attention...and sorrowfully I am not helping here...than he deserves. He and/or Davis should just be ignored.

  14. #12
    "...Pose a danger..."

    Are they really painting us as perps and McCain as victim? Come on...
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    "...Pose a danger..."

    Are they really painting us as perps and McCain as victim? Come on...
    Maybe...but some have said from the very beginning of the campaign season that McCain was offered up as a sacrifice as the GOP doesn't really want a win. Let the Dems take it and be the fall guys for the upcoming economic slaughter. And, now, we can be their excuse...if it hadn't been for those Ron Paul supporters, just like the Ross Perot supporters before....well, you get the picture.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pauletteNV View Post
    Maybe...but some have said from the very beginning of the campaign season that McCain was offered up as a sacrifice as the GOP doesn't really want a win. Let the Dems take it and be the fall guys for the upcoming economic slaughter. And, now, we can be their excuse...if it hadn't been for those Ron Paul supporters, just like the Ross Perot supporters before....well, you get the picture.
    My sentiments exactly.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -Thomas Jefferson

  17. #15
    simple question: will these powerwhores that run the GOP figure it out? if nothing else, they've shown themselves to be abunduntly stupid and corrupt, so i kind of doubt it.

    perhaps they will learn what it is like to be a libertarian (only w/o principles of freedom that we libs hold dear) as the results roll in.

    i can't see McCain as a sacrificial lamb; i think the RNC is dumb enough to have believed he could win. The GOP would just blame the Ds for the economic clusterf#ck if McWar won. That's what they do.

    Appologies to any that consider themselves Rs at heart (and have voted for these neocons previously). it's not your fault.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by pauletteNV View Post
    Well, my guess is he and Muth are one and the same, or....they are brothers or mimicking one another - they definitely both crawled out from under the same rock in the desert of Nevada. Muth gets a lot more attention...and sorrowfully I am not helping here...than he deserves. He and/or Davis should just be ignored.
    Yeah. Seems like Muth got it right though with his quote:

    "I think that you will see not just Libertarians who always vote for the Libertarian candidate but conservative Republicans saying we've had it, we've had enough and they're going to go ahead and vote Libertarian," Muth said.

    What's up with that?



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by surf View Post
    simple question: will these powerwhores that run the GOP figure it out?
    Yes--when and if we convince the public to stop making them filthy rich for doing what they're doing to us. Not before.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  21. #18
    I get tired of being called a "follower" rather than a supporter.
    "Every four years we are treated to the same tired, predictable routine: two candidates with few disagreements on fundamentals pretend that they represent dramatically different philosophies of government." - Ron Paul, The Revolution: A Manifesto

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kim4Paul View Post
    I get tired of being called a "follower" rather than a supporter.
    at least you're not a fan (looking at you, obama)

  23. #20
    http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/WI...ream_On_McAnus

    WILD WILD WEST.....Dream On McAnus!

    LAS VEGAS (AP) — Dueling delegations pitting Ron Paul's Nevada supporters against those of John McCain vow to take their fight to the Republican National Convention"........."Outside the convention hall, his supporters have reserved a 15,000-seat basketball arena for a "mini-convention."

  24. #21
    The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4.
    I also LOL'd

  25. #22

    I will vote Obama simply

    Quote Originally Posted by John E View Post
    I also LOL'd
    because I want to destroy whats left of the financial system faster so we can get new leadership thruout the country. Sounds awful but a pheonix can and will spring from the ashes. McCain will accomplish none of this and it will be a slow bleed, Obama will make almost instantaneous. I want real money or a congress limited in what they can do and only an economic crisis will awaken the sheeple. A slow slog of ever increasing inflation will delay the inevitable, I want it fast. At least Obama is a proud socialist, McCain is worse, a pseudo conservative.

  26. #23

    they are dreaming

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahApocalypse View Post
    "The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4."

    LOL they really are in a alternate reality aren't they.
    haha funny eh. I'm 100% positive i will not vote for mccain or any republican mentioning mccain!!!!!
    2016 gop est business as usual, rules do not apply.

  27. #24
    "The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4."



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahApocalypse View Post
    "The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4."

    LOL they really are in a alternate reality aren't they.
    And they say WE wear tin foil hats....
    We have two major parties [in America], the stupid party and the evil party. Every once in a while they manage to work together and we call it "bipartisanship".
    ~Thomas Woods, Rally for the Republic

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by PatriotOne View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CydPIf3b-Mc
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ2K1 View Post
    "At the end of the day, Republicans are going to vote for John McCain. He's a Western candidate who understands water issues, land issues. He's a fiscal conservative," said Rick Gorka, a campaign spokesman. "His message is appealing to a broad spectrum of voters."

    I LOL'd
    I think Gorka is more mentally ill than Phil Gramm after this, which is saying a lot!

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Kim4Paul View Post
    I get tired of being called a "follower" rather than a supporter.
    Those words are carefully chosen, IMO.
    We have allies many of you are not aware of. Watch the tube. Show this to your 30 and under friends. Listen to it. Even if you don't like rap, it has 2.7 million views.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmBnvajSfWU#t=0m16s

    Cut off one min early to avoid war porn.



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