Single Tax?

[yongrel]

I was puttering around, and I happened upon the concept of a "Single Tax" proposed by a man named Henry George back in the 19th century. Upon further research, it appears that he and his Georgist philosophy was fairly influential once upon a time in libertarian and national politics.

Anywho, his "single tax" proposal is quite interesting. Essentially, it is the abolition of all taxation with the exception of a single tax on unimproved land. By his system, taxation would be on the basic value of the land, and not on improvements or developments, so as not to discourage growth or improvement.

I've only just discovered this idea, but am interested in what the rest of y'all think about it.

Here is a brief explanation and argument from Henry George for the Single Tax:
http://www.cooperativeindividualism....singletax.html

[Zippyjuan]

I was a bit confused as to what he inteded to tax based on your summary but the articld does help clarify it. Property taxes are currently assesed in most areas based on both the value of the land itself and also on any improvements such as a house or business built on it. The writer proposes to not tax anything on the land but only on the land value itself. I was going to ask how much land today is not developed but see that does not matter. The article was written at a point where budgets (local, state, and federal) were considerably smaller than they are today. What would property taxes be under such a system today? How do you seperate out the value of improvements from the value of the land since improvements made on the land can make the property itself more valuable? Is the value of the land re-adjusted every year or some other period? If I bought my land a long time ago at half the price my neighbor paid should I still pay the same taxes he does- I do not realize any increase in property value until I actually sell? If so, I could eventually lose my land if the taxes become too high for me to afford. Just some thoughts.

[noxagol]

Just tax based on area instead of value and sell off all government owned land.

[TastyWheat]

I'm opposed to property taxes on principle. Why should you pay taxes to the government for living on your own land? Answer, you don't own your land, the government owns your land and they're kind enough to let you live there for a small fee.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I was puttering around, and I happened upon the concept of a "Single Tax" proposed by a man named Henry George back in the 19th century. Upon further research, it appears that he and his Georgist philosophy was fairly influential once upon a time in libertarian and national politics.

Anywho, his "single tax" proposal is quite interesting. Essentially, it is the abolition of all taxation with the exception of a single tax on unimproved land. By his system, taxation would be on the basic value of the land, and not on improvements or developments, so as not to discourage growth or improvement.

I've only just discovered this idea, but am interested in what the rest of y'all think about it.

Here is a brief explanation and argument from Henry George for the Single Tax:
http://www.cooperativeindividualism....singletax.html

Yes, but it's hard to calculate. What's wrong with no taxes at all?

We propose to abolish all taxes save one single tax levied on the value of land, irrespective of the value of the improvements in or on it.

How do you know the value? It's so retarded!

[Paulitician]

Definitely better than our current tax system. But I think TastyWheat makes a good point

What's wrong with no taxes at all?

Complete self-governance arises?

[Kludge]

I was puttering around, and I happened upon the concept of a "Single Tax" proposed by a man named Henry George back in the 19th century. Upon further research, it appears that he and his Georgist philosophy was fairly influential once upon a time in libertarian and national politics.

Anywho, his "single tax" proposal is quite interesting. Essentially, it is the abolition of all taxation with the exception of a single tax on unimproved land. By his system, taxation would be on the basic value of the land, and not on improvements or developments, so as not to discourage growth or improvement.

I've only just discovered this idea, but am interested in what the rest of y'all think about it.

Here is a brief explanation and argument from Henry George for the Single Tax:
http://www.cooperativeindividualism....singletax.html

Voluntaryism > coercion.

Until it's disproved on the LOCAL level, I will remain attached to my intellectual Disney Land fantasy.

[krazy kaju]

The idea of a single tax is valid in the sense that it would avoid the tendency of normal property taxes contributing to urban sprawl. Instead, the "single tax" would tax land with huge buildings and farm land the same.

Of course, there are two things wrong with the single tax:

First, it could be considered immoral. All direct taxes, i.e. property and income taxes, are immoral IMO since it postulates that the government owns you and your property. As somebody who believes in natural rights, I find that grossly wrong.

Secondly, the single tax might reverse urban sprawl in a bad way. It might promote the building of huge buildings instead of farming land, since it would be more profitable to have 50 tenants and pay the same tax as a farmer. So in this way, the single tax might be an unfair burden on taxes and small business owners.

But then again, all taxes cause some kind of price distortion. From a utilitarian point of view, the only tax that doesn't cause unfair price distortions could be a flat income tax with "prebate" checks - kind of like mixing the FairTax and the flat tax. But then again, I'm also opposed to the flat tax on moral grounds, so... :P

[weslinder]

I was worried that this was going to be a tax against single people.

[krazy kaju]

^ lol

[noxagol]

So did I at first.

[Truth Warrior]

Single tax - 1.

[CountryboyRonPaul]

Keep a record of how people vote in elections.

If that person votes for a pro-subsidy presidential candidate, they pay a Federal Income Tax of 15% for 4 years, until the next election comes.

If they vote for a pro-subsidy Senator, they pay a 6 year State Income Tax at 5%




Implement those policies, and I guarantee we would never elect another big spender to Office.

[Joshua911]

Well, they use this program to cut property taxes in many towns here in Pennsylvania. By not taxing what people produce, invest in and save for (capital and labor), revenue flows for the essential functions of government can be maintained without distorting the economy. Economists from Milton Friedman to William Vickrey have agreed that a tax on land values in the lest harmful tax. William Buckley was a supporter. The idea has been espoused not only by Henry George, but Thomas Paine, Adam Smith, John Locke and Albert J. Nock amongst others.

Karl Marx referred to George's land tax as "capitalism's last ditch."

Example:

In the strict public policy application, Land Value Taxation (also known as split-rate real property taxation, and two-tiered real property taxation) is a type of real property taxation. Whereas the typical real property tax taxes both land and the improvements on the land at the same rate, land value taxation taxes land at a higher rate while simultaneously reducing, or even eliminating, the tax on improvements.

For example, Clairton in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania has a tax rate of 103 mills on land and 4.32 mills on buildings rather than 29.5 mills on both (City and School District combined). That means instead of the standard property tax, where about 75% of tax dollars come from buildings, about 90% comes from land values. Clairton is poor city; which used to be a steel town.

Towns as small as Steelton (pop.2,500) to as large as Allentown (pop. 105,000) have used LVT successfully in Pennsylvania.

Joshua Vincent
www.urbantools.org

[yongrel]

Well, they use this program to cut property taxes in many towns here in Pennsylvania. By not taxing what people produce, invest in and save for (capital and labor), revenue flows for the essential functions of government can be maintained without distorting the economy. Economists from Milton Friedman to William Vickrey have agreed that a tax on land values in the lest harmful tax. William Buckley was a supporter. The idea has been espoused not only by Henry George, but Thomas Paine, Adam Smith, John Locke and Albert J. Nock amongst others.

Karl Marx referred to George's land tax as "capitalism's last ditch."

Example:

In the strict public policy application, Land Value Taxation (also known as split-rate real property taxation, and two-tiered real property taxation) is a type of real property taxation. Whereas the typical real property tax taxes both land and the improvements on the land at the same rate, land value taxation taxes land at a higher rate while simultaneously reducing, or even eliminating, the tax on improvements.

For example, Clairton in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania has a tax rate of 103 mills on land and 4.32 mills on buildings rather than 29.5 mills on both (City and School District combined). That means instead of the standard property tax, where about 75% of tax dollars come from buildings, about 90% comes from land values. Clairton is poor city; which used to be a steel town.

Towns as small as Steelton (pop.2,500) to as large as Allentown (pop. 105,000) have used LVT successfully in Pennsylvania.

Joshua Vincent
www.urbantools.org

Ah, thanks for the clarification. The question I have then is what has been the effect of the LVT's application? Does it usually result in local growth?

Welcome to the forums!

[IRO-bot]

The Single American is a burden to our society, they do not have the "Christian Family Values" our country is known for. We must put a tax on them to give them the incentive to marry and be productive members of our society!!


Just following the funny post of Weslinder.

[The_Orlonater]

So this one massive tax by the Federal government?

[Kludge]

So this one massive tax by the Federal government?

I'm sure the federal gov't would split it with the states who would graciously share it with local communities...

Or Hell... I mean, why bother giving it to the inefficient state and local governments...? The cream of the corn rises to the top, right? (is that how that saying is to be used???)

[IRO-bot]

I'm sure the federal gov't would split it with the states who would graciously share it with local communities...

Or Hell... I mean, why bother giving it to the inefficient state and local governments...? The cream of the corn rises to the top, right? (is that how that saying is to be used???)

I believe you meant to say Turds float.

[Joshua911]

Ah, thanks for the clarification. The question I have then is what has been the effect of the LVT's application? Does it usually result in local growth?

Welcome to the forums!

Thank you for the kind welcome. Congressman Paul once donated offices for us to have a conference in DC, so I have always had a soft spot for him.

Most economists study the land tax by comparing the outcome from one locality to another. This is easiest in New Zealand and Australia where a roughly equal number of towns have it to those that don't. If a town has LVT, the value of buildings and the quality of buildings seems to increase. Given that most government has a very heavy hand with planning and zoning, it's not simply dense development, just better development.

In Harrisburg, the mayor comes right out and says that the land tax has helped that city run itself (slowly) around.

It's no panacea, and many of the towns in Pennsylvania that use it still are suffering from the shocks of globalization that local tax policy can't really affect.

Yet, since my preference for government is municipal/local first, it seems to work at the local level. On the flip side, a town like Philly with a huge income tax, or Chicago with an economy-killing sales tax shows the error of taxing what people and business do.

Great forum.
Josh

[mediahasyou]

Taxation is Theft.

It doesn't make sense to steal money through taxes to protect people from stealing. Hypocracy at its best.

[wizardwatson]

Henry George is criticized for his proposed solution, which is indeed flawed because it is based on government coercion and not on volutarism. But his solution sprang from a very sound argument (imo) with regards to the cause of poverty.

I do not believe it has ever been attempted to resolve George's concept of making land rent common stock with the idea of a voluntary based government.

I think George was on to something, but everyone-in the Austrian community anyway-seems to blow his land theory off because of George's remedy. They like his non-land economic opinions but he himself was focused mostly on the land remedy.

In other words, he identified an injustice in monopolization of land rents but his remedy of redistributing, from a libertarian perspective, is also an injustice.

The Georgists need a more individualist and just approach to the redistribution of land rents, if that is in fact the remedy.

[Nate K]

i was a geolibertarian before i became an ancap.

[krazy kaju]

We could fund the essential roles of government (protection, legal services, national defense) via a "crime tax," if you will. It would be based on retribution. For example, if I carjack someone, I would be forced to pay back damages plus extra to that person and his/her family, while paying the government fees for using the court system. My assets could be seized by the government and sold off, etc.

[Kludge]

Voluntaryism > coercion.

Until it's disproved on the LOCAL level, I will remain attached to my intellectual Disney Land fantasy.

Wtf is this $#@!?

[Fox McCloud]

while I think all taxation is wrong, I could support a single low tax...just not on property, it has the effect of stating, basically "you don't own this land, the government does--if you don't pay, we get it".

and that's why I don't like it.....if there must be a tax, at all, I'd prefer it be a sales tax.

[Danke]

Voluntaryism > coercion.

Until it's disproved on the LOCAL level, I will remain attached to my intellectual Disney Land fantasy.

Wtf is this $#@!?

Kludge, pay no attention to him.

[Acala]

If, like me, you can't quite accept complete anarchy and instead believe that some minimal state is necessary - national defense and some kind of court system and law enforcement - then you need some source of revenue. If you say "voluntary contributions" then you have the classic free rider problem. So what to do?

The idea of supporting the system with fees on those found to have violated the rights of others (and by extension presumably also reparations from nations that attack us) has merit. But falls apart in a peaceful, law-abiding world and also has a built in motivation for increasing the number and complexity of the rules and also over-zealous enforcement. Consider the "speed trap" towns that use traffic fines as a source of revenue. Not necessarily a good model for government at all levels.

Suppose instead of the single tax, you have a "single fee". Land owners are not required to pay it, but if they don't pay it, they cannot record their title, cannot access the courts or law enforcement if their property rights are invaded, and if the country is invaded, the army will use their property to quarter soldiers and for cover and strategic purposes if needed. As a consequence, the land owner probably would not be able to buy homeowner's insurance and would have a hard time getting a mortgage. Voila! No coercion, just sound services in exchange for a fee.

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

Of course this would be an improvement over the current situation, but that says very little.

Who collects and enforces the tax? What happens to people who refuse to pay, and make a very intense, intelligent argument for their refusal?

What gives this entity its authority? And what's to stop it from spreading its authority to other areas, as always seems to happen under any form of governance?

Now, I fully understand the notion that all land is held in common and merely being rented for the duration of the rentee's lifetime. But we all know what happens when government is established under the guise of commonwealth. If the Earth could speak to us and ask for taxes, I'd happily pay it, but this isn't something you can trust human beings with.

[rockjoa]

If it gets rid of the inflation tax and all these below

Accounts Receivable Tax

Building Permit Tax

Capital Gains Tax

CDL license Tax

Cigarette Tax

Corporate Income Tax

Dog License Tax

Federal Income Tax

Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)

Fishing License Tax

Food License Tax

Fuel permit tax

Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)

Hunting License Tax

Inheritance Tax Interest expense (tax on the money)

Inventory tax IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)

IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)

Liquor Tax

Local Income Tax

Luxury Taxes

Marriage License Tax

Medicare Tax

Property Tax

Real Estate Tax

Septic Permit Tax

Service Charge Taxes

Social Security Tax

Road Usage Taxes (Truckers)

Sales Taxes

Recreational Vehicle Tax

Road Toll Booth Taxes

School Tax

State Income Tax

State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)

Telephone federal excise tax

Telephone federal universal service fee tax

Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes

Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax

Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax

Telephone state and local tax

Telephone usage charge tax

Toll Bridge Taxes

Toll Tunnel Taxes

Trailer registration tax

Utility Taxes

Vehicle License Registration Tax

Vehicle Sales Tax

Watercraft registration Tax

Well Permit Tax

Workers Compensation Tax




Why take from one source when you can double dip many times.