Yes
No
Undecided
Curious as to the numbers on this one and also the discussion.
I am for no borders and find it strange that so many libertarians deviate from libertarian philosophy for one reason or another on this one issue.
Edit: I realize that I misspelled "borders" in the poll question.
Last edited by mport1; 04-07-2010 at 11:59 PM.
Yes, I am. There are no real borders, it's all inour minds. The lines on the maps represent the borders of the various world mafia.Originally Posted by mport1
in theory, yes.
But we need to undergo significant changes before I would sign off.
Drug laws are the same. I'm in favor of legalizing crack cocaine even, but I need to see the safety net dismantled first.
There's no "right way" to do it. If you want, you just do it, as long as you have the power to do so. Want to EVENTUALLY open borders up? Why wait? Let's f'n do it!
Precisely, and that doesn't even take into account the economic benefits of immigration.
In theory I support open borders.
However, due to the strain it would put on the welfare state, and the threat open borders pose to national sovreignty, I am opposed in practice.
in other words, no. Let's not play games here.
Hey . . . eee!
Radical.
there are varying levels of bad ways to go about it.
Sorry, but opening borders up under this political landscape would be asinine...unless the goal is to seek an economic collapse rather then brace for one.
You young fellows trying to give away this nation's lightning in a bottle need to wait until I am dead, please. Thank you.
There was a time in which banditos were shot between the eyes. Now we pay them minimum wage to come acroiss the border to rip us off. So, we need two borders. The first one would be a border between the United States of America and the tiny city-state of Washington DC. Secondly, we need to build borders between us and the Mexicans. Mexicans are ruled by tyranny and that type of system is poisonous to our superior form of government.
No, I'm not.
And until I am guaranteed that those coming over will a) work for this country and not be supported by my tax dollars b) put back into the system just like I do and c) learn English, I am not changing my mind.
And I'm all for sending the welfare-using, anything-other-than-english-talking, wont-work immigrants back. I'll pay for their one way ticket back to their country - don't want them here.
What do you want me to do, to do for you to see you through?
A box of rain will ease the pain, and love will see you through.
Box of Rain, Grateful Dead
निर्विकल्पा
aka Wicked Heathen
I was a nasty woman before Trump made it cool.
Our government is tyrannical and wouldn't you think that most Mexicans are fleeing to our country because we are far superior. Why would they want the same thing implemented here? The problem is not immigration, but our government.
How exactly are they ripping us off?
There should be no borders, visas, passports or anything like that. If I want to fly to Peru, Italy, Thailand, wherever, I should be able to just get on a plane and fly there. If I want to stay and get a job, I should be able to do that without asking permission from any government.
"Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it." - Henry David Thoreau
Why do you care if someone speaks English or not?
"Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it." - Henry David Thoreau
I don't have a very strong opinion about it currently. Ideally, there would be no borders between nations--but it's not like I live in my perfect liberal word. I do think there should be open borders, but at the same time, the borders should be secure (that is, in order to prevent terrorists or other groups from bringing bombs and such) and the welfare state should be dismantled in large part along with it.
Hey . . . eee!
"We the People of the United States" is not a tyranny. Now we have been eroding to tyranny as a nation, no doubt. Still, the best way to apply pressure on the Aristocracy in Mexico is to close our borders. We aren't Mexicans. We are better than God damned Mexicans. Mexicans work their stupid asses off for nothing and then they come up here and do the same thing for a lot of fat lazy asses. We all need to be lazy asses in the United States, not just a few. If Mexicans want to live as fat lazy asses, they need to do so down in their own God forsaken country. With all due respect.
a) They do work for this country, most of them very hard to live their meager lives. Illegals are not often supported by tax dollars since they are on the black market.
b) They do put back into the system, even more than you and I since they don't recieve as many benefits.
c) Why should they have to learn English? If you don't want to associate with those that don't speak English, don't.
"And I'm all for sending the welfare-using, anything-other-than-english-talking, wont-work immigrants back. I'll pay for their one way ticket back to their country - don't want them here."
Well I don't want to pay for that. Are you alright with robbing me to pay for this and depriving me of my property rights of being able to allow these people on my property and/or hire them?
I hope you were kidding. Mexicans are no worse than Americans. That is an extremely discriminatory statement. Every human should have equal rights, no matter what plot of land they happen to be born on.
Yup, I'm alright with it.
this
this
this
this
this
this
this
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Also, it's hard to not associate with those who don't speak English when your entire city is plastered with it - signs in Spanish. Can't even get a job here if you can't speak spanish. Where do you live?
Why do I care if people know English or not? I'll tell you. They don't have to. But they better not expect me to take classes in Spanish, - I won't learn it. They better not expect a translator in court, or when they go to the doctor and need medicine. They shouldn't expect me to conform to them.
Last edited by Nirvikalpa; 07-09-2008 at 12:54 PM.
What do you want me to do, to do for you to see you through?
A box of rain will ease the pain, and love will see you through.
Box of Rain, Grateful Dead
निर्विकल्पा
aka Wicked Heathen
I was a nasty woman before Trump made it cool.
I guess then you don't consider yourself an "American," since this implies belonging to a nation defined by set borders.
"Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45
"May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul
This is absurd. If criteria a and b is met, you can shove your bigotry up your ass as far as I'm concerned.
In fact, I would be more in favor of rounding people like you up if we are ever going to do such a thing.
BIGOTRY?! Come to my state's elections. Seriously, come. See these people in line that can't even speak english, they need a translator, and then you'll know that these people, who cant speak a word of English are voting for this Country's president.
I'll be waiting.
What do you want me to do, to do for you to see you through?
A box of rain will ease the pain, and love will see you through.
Box of Rain, Grateful Dead
निर्विकल्पा
aka Wicked Heathen
I was a nasty woman before Trump made it cool.
Who's the true bigot? The bigot, or the one calling the other a "bigot?"
"Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45
"May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul
obviously the bigot is.Who's the true bigot? The bigot, or the one calling the other a "bigot?"
I'm not intolerant of opinions, I'm intolerant of actions.
You understand the difference?
It takes money and resources to do business in multiple languages. Therefore it is perfectly reasonable if a government says it will only do business in English. That doesn't mean new immigrants have to learn english. It doesn't mean they can't speak their native tongue. It does mean that they cannot expect to participate in "public" activities that require knowledge of the primary language. This includes driver's licenses, voting, etc.
A few years ago a Spanish immigrant sued Alabama for not providing her a drivers test in Spanish. She won. That's absurd.
so maybe we should make a test that you could administer. you could be the ultimate arbitrator on who is worthy of a vote and who is not.BIGOTRY?! Come to my state's elections. Seriously, come. See these people in line that can't even speak english, they need a translator, and then you'll know that these people, who cant speak a word of English are voting for this Country's president.
I'll be waiting.
I stand corrected.
"Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45
"May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul
um...it seems lots of you disagree with Dr. Paul on this issue
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."
Nietzsche
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Jefferson
"The Only Church That Illuminates Is A Burning Church."
Durruti - leader of Spanish Anarchists
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
Orwell
the most intelligent statement yet. If we had no welfare state, immigration wouldn't be a problem, it would be an advantage
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."
Nietzsche
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Jefferson
"The Only Church That Illuminates Is A Burning Church."
Durruti - leader of Spanish Anarchists
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
Orwell
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