FBI Steals Life Savings of OH family....

[tomveil]

For 40 years, Meredith and Luther Ricks did everything the right way. They worked hard, saved carefully and raised a family in their modest Lima home. They were poised to enjoy their retirement years in peace.

Despite their four decades of hard work, however, an absurdly unjust law has turned their hope for the American Dream into an outrageous nightmare at the hands of the Cleveland FBI.
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The full story is at:

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaind...730.xml&coll=2

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Outrageous. If anybody has any information about how to help these people out, please post it.

[kyleAF]

That is ridiculous. You know, they should really be careful not to keep forcing people into the "nothing left to lose" category. Especially in light of the soon-to-be turbulent times we all face here.

[Vet_from_cali]

wow, that is so F'd up on so many levels. just wow

[Nirvikalpa]

Guilty until proven innocent.

While criminal forfeiture requires that a property owner be found guilty of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt, civil forfeiture does not require that the owner even be accused of a crime, much less convicted. The government proceeds directly against the property it wants to take, which means owners are not entitled to any of the protections they would receive if they were accused of a crime.

That made my stomach turn. Murderers and rapists get more rights.

[phixion]

I'm lost for words. That is an insane policy for the police to follow - simply for monetary gain, I assume.

Yet another unfortunate example of why Americans aren't as free as they think.

And why many police officers don't deserve their badge.

And why I detest most police.

Pete

[amy31416]

Outrageous. Infuriating.

[hillbilly123069]

I just posted a letter here under "senoir citizens" with the title headlining my topic and checked it to be in public view. Its an embarrassment I think they would like to address considering the masses that use this site now.

[amy31416]

I just posted a letter here under "senoir citizens" with the title headlining my topic and checked it to be in public view. Its an embarrassment I think they would like to address considering the masses that use this site now.

I can't seem to find it.

[sluggo]

I can't really see how the FBI's actions are much different than the actions attempted by the intruders........

[tomveil]

I can't really see how the FBI's actions are much different than the actions attempted by the intruders........

You could fight off the intruders?

[Paulitical Correctness]

A lot of people would say "Oh well, shouldn't have had the weed."

It's because of those people that this $#@! can happen and will continue to happen.

[amonasro]

I'm going to preface this by saying I have the highest sympathies for this family, and it is a horrible injustice, and I am totally against any and all marijuana laws.

But what I don't understand is... why didn't someone get rid of the weed? Let's say you're a cop that shows up at the home:

-You see someone shot and stabbed in their house related to a burglary.
-You discover a couple ounces of high-grade, medicinal quality marijuana. This is not the crap that comes across the border from Mexico, but the good stuff that is grown locally.
-They have almost half million in cash in a safe.

Is this not a shady situation?

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that the burglary was probably related to the insane amount of cash they kept there, and possibly had ties to Luther's dealer. Obviously they would want to investigate this.

I know this is a free country, but to think that having drugs and that kind of money in the same place isn't going to raise suspicions is just lunacy. Yes, it's ridiculous that they confiscated the money, but you have to know the laws if you're going to skirt them.

[Anthony T]

I hate heavily biased articles like the one you posted.

I'm going to preface this by saying I have the highest sympathies for this family, and it is a horrible injustice, and I am totally against any and all marijuana laws.

But what I don't understand is... why didn't someone get rid of the weed? Let's say you're a cop that shows up at the home:

-You see someone shot and stabbed in their house related to a burglary.
-You discover a couple ounces of high-grade, medicinal quality marijuana. This is not the crap that comes across the border from Mexico, but the good stuff that is grown locally.
-They have almost half million in cash in a safe.

Is this not a shady situation?

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that the burglary was probably related to the insane amount of cash they kept there, and possibly had ties to Luther's dealer. Obviously they would want to investigate this.

I know this is a free country, but to think that having drugs and that kind of money in the same place isn't going to raise suspicions is just lunacy. Yes, it's ridiculous that they confiscated the money, but you have to know the laws if you're going to skirt them.

I fully agree.

[Feelgood]

Here is a perfect example why RP says to get rid of the FBI.

[dwdollar]

It's outrageous.

The time for talk is almost over.

[tomveil]

I'm going to preface this by saying I have the highest sympathies for this family, and it is a horrible injustice, and I am totally against any and all marijuana laws.

But what I don't understand is... why didn't someone get rid of the weed? Let's say you're a cop that shows up at the home:

-You see someone shot and stabbed in their house related to a burglary.
-You discover a couple ounces of high-grade, medicinal quality marijuana. This is not the crap that comes across the border from Mexico, but the good stuff that is grown locally.
-They have almost half million in cash in a safe.

Is this not a shady situation?

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that the burglary was probably related to the insane amount of cash they kept there, and possibly had ties to Luther's dealer. Obviously they would want to investigate this.

I know this is a free country, but to think that having drugs and that kind of money in the same place isn't going to raise suspicions is just lunacy. Yes, it's ridiculous that they confiscated the money, but you have to know the laws if you're going to skirt them.

Clearly the government has the right to take it all! God forbid people should be able to keep their own money wherever they choose! They didn't get charged with a crime and just got their life savings STOLEN.

I guess the moral of the story is that you shouldn't let the cops into your home, ever.

[dbhohio47]

I'm the first to agree that the civil confiscation laws are totally insane; but, there's something a little fishy about that story....... I'm not so sure the homeowners are as "innocent" as the author of the article would lead you to believe.

[tomveil]

I'm the first to agree that the civil confiscation laws are totally insane; but, there's something a little fishy about that story....... I'm not so sure the homeowners are as "innocent" as the author of the article would lead you to believe.

Yeah, there should be some sort of "process" where the "judiciary" could determine your "innocence". Nah, let's just take all the money.

[amonasro]

Clearly the government has the right to take it all! God forbid people should be able to keep their own money wherever they choose! They didn't get charged with a crime and just got their life savings STOLEN.

I guess the moral of the story is that you shouldn't let the cops into your home, ever.

No of course they shouldn't have the right to take any of it unless they are convicted of some kind of crime.

I was just pointing out that marijuana + $500k in a safe = bad news if the cops show up. People can keep their savings in a mattress for all I care

I suspect they had no choice but to let the cops into their home since it's a crime scene. All the more reason to hide or destroy any damning evidence.

[rockandrollsouls]

"Such is the result of civil forfeiture laws, which represent one of the most profound assaults on our rights today.

Civil forfeiture can apply to virtually any property: cars, houses, boats and, as the Rickses' case demonstrates, even money. The property can be seized merely on suspicion that it was used in connection with a crime or resulted from criminal activity. "

Amen. They should be sueing the bejebus out of the government! Complete violation of 5th ammendment rights....

[kigol]

ugh

[Buffalo Bruce]

In Wisconsin last week, up to three armored vehicles and three helicopters were used to lay seige to oust a 60 year old man who owed $5,700 of property taxes on perhaps $80,000 of real estate. His friends say he was mad about the county ruining his well and refusing to compensate him for it. He is in jail now and his house was set on fire during the seige. Someone will get his real estate for the back taxes and pocket the rest.

This guy did have a history of firing warning shots when police came up his drive. They could of just picked this guy up when he went to town to buy gas but then they wouldn't have been able to test out all their terrorist equipment and training. Fortunately, no one was hurt.

http://www.madison.com:80/wsj/home/local/280830

[angelatc]

No of course they shouldn't have the right to take any of it unless they are convicted of some kind of crime.

I was just pointing out that marijuana + $500k in a safe = bad news if the cops show up. People can keep their savings in a mattress for all I care

I suspect they had no choice but to let the cops into their home since it's a crime scene. All the more reason to hide or destroy any damning evidence.

BUt what you might not realize is that these folks probably haven't had any real contact with the police over the past 40 years. They had no idea that the cops have ceased being the public servants of the past.

When I was a kid, cops would just confiscate a bag of pot. No charges, and everybody knew the police had the best weed. And these folks were an era before that.

They didn't anticipate having their home searched, because they were the victims. Additionally, they were probably in shock. It's not hard to rationalize acting irrationally in their shoes.

5 years ago my parents would have read that article and thought that those folks deserved it. Then they had an incident with the cops that involved my father going to jail.....now they have a totally new perspective.

[amy31416]

In Wisconsin last week, up to three armored vehicles and three helicopters were used to lay seige to oust a 60 year old man who owed $5,700 of property taxes on perhaps $80,000 of real estate. His friends say he was mad about the county ruining his well and refusing to compensate him for it. He is in jail now and his house was set on fire during the seige. Someone will get his real estate for the back taxes and pocket the rest.

This guy did have a history of firing warning shots when police came up his drive. They could of just picked this guy up when he went to town to buy gas but then they wouldn't have been able to test out all their terrorist equipment and training. Fortunately, no one was hurt.

http://www.madison.com:80/wsj/home/local/280830

I'm in no position to make a judgment about the particular case that you speak of, but, I have just a general question:

Why does Wisconsin seem to be such a police state?

I hear about a lot of crazy "police gone wild" stories and many of them take place in that state. What's the deal?

[nc4rp]

looks like if you have a badge or sign their check, you can bring any amount of pain and suffering to the good people who live in our imprisoned nation.

lesson here- stay poor as dirt so you dont have anything that the Fed can steal from you.

[Buffalo Bruce]

Amy, I don't think that Wisconsin police are better or worse than in other states. Living here, I don't remember the police ever being unreasonable toward me. Both times someone sicked the police on me for distributing RP literature, each of the police accepted slim jims. On a positive note, Wisconsin voters just took away the Governor's line item veto power 70-30 because he had been causing too much mischief with it. On the negative side, our "progressive" Governor now has a nursing home tax and is trying to institute a hospital bed tax.

[phuqig_hotband]

I hate heavily biased articles like the one you posted.

I fully agree.

It wasn’t that heavily biased. No one was ever charged with a crime but $400,000 was not returned. What is the government’s side of the argument? "Well you see, we really need the money right now. Did you know that we have to borrow $2 billion a day to fight an unconstitutional war in IRAQ? That $#@! aint cheap!"

Others are saying the couple’s argument sounds a little fishy because they had a little pot and a lot of money. I guess the assumption is that they may have been doing something illegal so there may have eventually been some justification for taking the money, but if they really had nefarious intentions, don’t you think they would have dumped the pot immediately. The only reason somebody wouldn’t is because they didn’t think they were doing anything wrong.

If we really wanted to get down to the nitty-gritty of it, if in the absolute worst case scenario they were selling pot and made a little money, they are no worse that Coors brewing company. Unless they acted coercively or violently, there is absolutely no reason for the action taken against them. I think we need to reevaluate our libertarian leanings a little.

[Dequeant]

400g's eh? I could see myself punching .50 caliber holes in a FBI building for less.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Importantly, a nationwide backlash is under way. Ohio leads the country with a historic unanimous ruling in 2006 by the state's Supreme Court that reined in the awesome power of land confiscation. Forty-two states have now reformed their laws on land grabs, making it harder for governments to take your property to boost their tax revenues.

The last 10 words say it all!

[Kalifornia]

Total BS. Unfortunately, they dont even need a bit of bud as en excuse for this kind of crap. Recently, some troopers stole the life savings of a truck driver who kept the cash in his truck. Some 40odd grand if I remember correctly....

He did nothing wrong. He was pulled over, consented to a search, and they found the cash. Under some bull$#@! policy that presumes large amounts of cash (anything over 10g) is the fruit of illegal behavior, they seized it. Now he has to fight for it in court. Itll cost him more for attorneys fees than he will get back.

The good news for these folks is that this is a sufficient sum that they might find an atty to take this case on contingency, for about 40% of the total. So long as this is for real, and they had no other evidence, my gut tells me they have a good shot of about half of it back, after trial. (of course the government wont just GIVE it back)

The facts are these folks. When you call the cops, they arent coming out to help you. They are coming out to investigate 'crime'. They dont care who they put in jail, it might as well be you, even if you called them.

Im sure the cops in question gave each other all a celebratory butt slap and got cookies from their superiors for this seizure.

'always think forfeiture'.