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Thread: Crazy people and killers

  1. #1

    Crazy people and killers

    I have always considered myself a strong supporter of the second amendment.
    But I've always asked myself, "What of people who are insane or repeat murderers?"
    Should they have the right own a firearm? Whats the consensus here?
    And if not, how could one discern between those that are too mad to own a weapon and those that are not?



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by AFM View Post
    I have always considered myself a strong supporter of the second amendment.
    But I've always asked myself, "What of people who are insane or repeat murderers?"
    Should they have the right own a firearm? Whats the consensus here?
    And if not, how could one discern between those that are too mad to own a weapon and those that are not?
    In theory, if we get all of the people in prison for non-violent drug offenses out, there will be room to keep people who have "repeated murders" in prison and not on the streets.

    I don't know about the "insane" thing. I think the problem with this is where to draw the line and how to test for "insane". This is what they are doing with the Veteran Disarmament Act, which would would place any veteran who has ever been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) on the federal gun ban list. It is obvious that when the government tries to draw this line, they go too far.
    Last edited by hillertexas; 02-22-2008 at 11:53 AM.
    R[∃vo˩]ution

    I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. -Ronald Reagan

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by hillertexas View Post
    In theory, if we get all of the people in prison for non-violent drug offenses out, there will be room to keep people who have "repeated murders" in prison and not on the streets.

    I don't know about the "insane" thing. I think the problem with this is where to draw the line and how to test for "insane". This is what they are doing with the Veteran Disarmament Act, which would would place any veteran who has ever been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) on the federal gun ban list. It is obvious that when the government tries to draw this line, they go too far.
    i've never really thought about this honestly, so i don't know where i personally stand. However, i am firm in the belief that the federal government is not the entity to make this call.

    i believe in following the constitution when it grants individuals the right to bear arms. If a state or city wants to draw some sort of line prohibiting people on one side from owning a gun for whatever reason, they should be able to (if the people in that state or city see fit).

  5. #4
    If a state or city wants to draw some sort of line prohibiting people on one side from owning a gun for whatever reason, they should be able to (if the people in that state or city see fit
    Do you you mean the easily swayed manipulated majority? Have heard the phrase "tyranny of the majority"? I want to keep my rights -- untouched

    Do you also believe that the 1st, 4th, 5th, or others should also be treated that way?

    Bottom line -- None of Our rights should be touched in any way, otherwise they are all subject to change. If not now... then later. That is the proverbial foot in the door.

    Freedom comes with some negatives -- Its not all roses -- accept that or forever regret allowing "the people" to change your rights for the common good.

    TMike...


    PS- whooo, you almost had me enraged -- please, take your rights more seriously.
    “No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders.”
    ― Samuel Adams

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by AFM View Post
    I have always considered myself a strong supporter of the second amendment.
    But I've always asked myself, "What of people who are insane or repeat murderers?"
    Should they have the right own a firearm? Whats the consensus here?
    And if not, how could one discern between those that are too mad to own a weapon and those that are not?
    I have heard this question before, many times, and often as an excuse to restrict guns.

    First on the question of sanity. Who decides? Psychology is not an exact science and is highly subjective. It has been used in other countries to label and punish political enemies.
    Almost anyone can have some quirk or phobia that can be called mental illness. In fact a small percentage of those who are classed as mentally ill are ever violent.
    It would be an easy way to ban gun ownership as anybody can be classed as a nut.
    "If you want a gun you must be crazy".
    repeat murderers?"
    Why are "repeat murderers" out walking around? Just don't allow guns in prison.
    Once someone is released, deemed fit for society, they should have their rights.
    The right to self defense is a human right.
    There are a lot of crimes that are classed as felonies. This needs to be looked at, and possibly reclassified.
    But lets take murder.
    Someone who kills his wifes rapist, or shoots an intruder, or is involved in a hunting accident can all be convicted of murder. They are not likely to repeat.
    They are not career criminals.
    People who have a history of violence, or continued criminal activity, should not be released into society. Those that show a desire to reform should be given a chance.
    Presently most people in prison for felony offenses are non-violent, yet are denied basic human rights for life.

    I believe that anyone out walking around deserves to have their Rights protected.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  7. #6
    But I've always asked myself, "What of people who are insane or repeat murderers?"
    Should they have the right own a firearm? Whats the consensus here?
    There is an inherent balance that firearms create, that the government messes up with it's laws and such.

    For instance, 100 years ago the serial killers who used firearms or whatnot would simply be killed by men with guns. Now vigilante justice is just as illegal as murder.

    It's inherent in one of my favorite quotes:

    "The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

    —Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

  8. #7
    IMO the only way someone should ever have their right to bear arms taken away is by a judge or jury with full due process of law. If somebody really is too crazy to own a gun the courts should decide on an individual basis. I agree with pcosmar that if someone has served their time and/or is considered rehabilitated they should have their rights restored.
    Last edited by Matt; 02-22-2008 at 09:59 PM.
    "I am attacking an idea which I believe to be false; a system which appears to me to be unjust; an injustice so independent of personal intentions that each of us profits from it without wishing to do so, and suffers from it without knowing the cause of our suffering." - Frédéric Bastiat

  9. #8
    Often when on the subject of gun control laws, it's easy to point out that those who think they control peoples actions with mere words written on paper are usually the last to get shot by criminals.

    Funny how they treat the Bill of Right like mere words on paper, but then expect the words they put on paper to control human action.
    If this should be, our final stand,
    we will stand together with pride
    We will honour the past, and fight to the last,
    it will be a good way to die
    It matters not, if the cause is lost,
    and we can not stop the tide
    We will fight to the end, and then fight again,
    it will be a good way to die



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by AFM View Post
    I have always considered myself a strong supporter of the second amendment.
    But I've always asked myself, "What of people who are insane or repeat murderers?"
    Should they have the right own a firearm? Whats the consensus here?
    And if not, how could one discern between those that are too mad to own a weapon and those that are not?
    A better question might be "Who do you trust to decide to make that decision?"

    Psychiatry is a pretty inexact science.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]



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