#110 - A Brokered Convention

[AlexMerced]

http://causeoffreedom.blogspot.com/

[AlexMerced]

http://causeoffreedom.blogspot.com/

[rockandrollsouls]

very well written and uplifting. just goes to show you never know which way people are going to vote, and our people are in there. We can hope for the best.

[colecrowe]

Go to www.RonPaulWhitehouse.com and pledge to show your support for the most amazing statesman this country will have had for who knows how long (JUST IN CASE).

BUT

I admit, and am happy to do so: There is no reason to think we need to go iNDY until we see what happens between now and March 4th. He MIGHT start stomping McCain based on low voter turnout due to apathy since the media has 110% called it for McCain, and based on how horrible a choice McCain is and how much he is getting lambasted in on the air and in print, and at the 'watercooler'. Especially as Iraq of course continues blowing up and the economy gets worse. Here is my proof:



Thank you for your generous donation of $100.00!

Contribution received!

Thank you very much for your donation to the Ron Paul 2008 Presidential Campaign.
Your donation will allow us to expand and grow our campaign.
We depend on donors like you to help us spread the message of freedom, peace and prosperity through Ron Paul’s candidacy.
You will receive an email shortly with a confirmation number.


But after March 4th...

I'm out if in a month's time he continues to win 0 states and still has less than 15% support and yet refuses to go iNDY (I'll still write him in and spread the word, make calls, etc., but I probably won't donate anymore, and I'll be very sad).

Well, I can safely say...if donations dry up....Paul will be forced to call it quits, so please continue to DONATE.

http://www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com/

my dad said he'd donate another 500 to Paul (IF he announces 3rd party) (he donated 200 on Dec. 16th--but that was when it seemed like he REALLY could maybe, possibly win the Nom. I would donate 500 the day he declares (even though it will hurt financially), whereas I can't afford to give anymore (I gave just over a 1,100 in Q4 to the cause--so shut up) for his Republican run; and gramps would probably wager another 1776.00

The 2nd and 3rd tier, broader-base of supporters aren't (many or most of them) going to donate MORE--if they already have once--because TO THEM it is obvious or at least nearly certain that he's not going to get the Nom from the Republican party (I'm not saying I believe that--but they DO). However, they would be very willing and enthusiastic about supporting him in an iNDEPENDENT run.

Primary Calendar: http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/calendar.asp

Month

Date

Feb.

9

Kansas Republican caucus
Louisiana

12

District of Columbia
Maryland
Virginia

19

Washington
Wisconsin

March

4

Ohio
Rhode Island
Texas
Vermont

11

Mississippi
April

22

Pennsylvania
May

6

Indiana
North Carolina

13

Nebraska
West Virginia primary

20

Kentucky
Oregon

27

Idaho Republican primary
June

3

Montana primary
New Mexico Republican primary
South Dakota
August

Aug. 25-28

Democratic National Convention — Denver, CO
September

Sept. 1-4

Republican National Convention — Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN

[PC_for_Paul]

The GOP has spoken they want McCain to have it and will do anything and everything to make sure we don't. That should be clear by now.

A better question would be, Why do we support a Party that doesn't want our support?

We are the only Conservative in the GOP Race, We are the only anti-war campaign.

Why the hell do we insist upon staying where we are not welcome?

We have a broader base than the entire GOP and yet we confine ourselves to the ridicule of this so called "Grand Old Party"?

Our Message is bigger than the GOP, it's bigger than our Campaign, it's bigger than this whole country, and it cannot be contained. We must set the message free to fall upon ears the GOP does not have. We must take the fight to where the enemy of Freedom and Peace live and thrive. We must take our message to the people, for it it their message, not ours. it doesn't belong to our Campaign, It doesn't belong to the GOP, it doesn't even belong to the United States of America.

No, This message belongs to the world, it is the only message that gives them hope, it is the only message that cures the ills wrought on the world by governments of tyranny in all of it's forms. It is the only message that can free the masses. You are born with these rights endowed by your creator that indeed all men are truly created equal.

[anaconda]

Well spoken PC_for_Paul. But I think that Dr. Paul has taken the position that the GOP is being hijacked and/or has "lost its way" and has been willing to try to fight to reclaim it.

But the Republican Party has now become the Neo-con/Evangelical Mainstream Media Party so pehaps you are right. An independent run should have relatively large appeal in an election where both nominees are perceived with high negatives. this would be especially true in a McCain vs. Billary general election. RP could perhaps win the general if he had $200 million to spend on high production value, unrelentless advertising.

[PC_for_Paul]

Well spoken PC_for_Paul. But I think that Dr. Paul has taken the position that the GOP is being hijacked and/or has "lost its way" and has been willing to try to fight to reclaim it.

But the Republican Party has now become the Neo-con/Evangelical Mainstream Media Party so pehaps you are right. An independent run should have relatively large appeal in an election where both nominees are perceived with high negatives. this would be especially true in a McCain vs. Billary general election. RP could perhaps win the general if he had $200 million to spend on high production value, unrelentless advertising.

We are not responsible for the world, we are not responsible for the GOP. We have a responsibility to whole nation. The GOP has cast it's die, unending war, to support would violate what we stand for.

We did not leave the GOP, the GOP left us.....

[DeafPalmdale]

Maybe this helps?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4xW35x0f9U

[anaconda]

Thanks for the delegate explanation, Alex_Merced. I am still a little puzzled however because I thought that the "caucus" states represented a minority of delegates in the whole national picture. So wouldn't McCain still dominate a brokered convention?

Also, does someone have to get a majority at the convention? Or, after many successive votes can they simply pick the candidate with the most delegates of the three? This would seem to certainly favor McCain.

[noztnac]

The GOP has spoken they want McCain to have it and will do anything and everything to make sure we don't. That should be clear by now.

A better question would be, Why do we support a Party that doesn't want our support?

We are the only Conservative in the GOP Race, We are the only anti-war campaign.

Why the hell do we insist upon staying where we are not welcome?

We have a broader base than the entire GOP and yet we confine ourselves to the ridicule of this so called "Grand Old Party"?

Our Message is bigger than the GOP, it's bigger than our Campaign, it's bigger than this whole country, and it cannot be contained. We must set the message free to fall upon ears the GOP does not have. We must take the fight to where the enemy of Freedom and Peace live and thrive. We must take our message to the people, for it it their message, not ours. it doesn't belong to our Campaign, It doesn't belong to the GOP, it doesn't even belong to the United States of America.

No, This message belongs to the world, it is the only message that gives them hope, it is the only message that cures the ills wrought on the world by governments of tyranny in all of it's forms. It is the only message that can free the masses. You are born with these rights endowed by your creator that indeed all men are truly created equal.

Right on!

I say we take the Constitution, Reform, Libertarian, and Unity nominations and win!

[PC_for_Paul]

Right on!

I say we take the Constitution, Reform, Libertarian, and Unity nominations and win!

If this is still America, then we can win.

[IcyPeaceMaker]

Here is the answer and it is Paul's secret plan.......

PLEASE READ THE EMAILS BELOW TO UNDERSTAND WHY WE CAN WIN. THE FOLLOWING LINK IS ALSO A GOOD READ. PLEASE GO TO YOUR CAUCUS AND BECOME A DELEGATE. Thanks for all you are doing to save our country!

The Strategy is Working... A Must Read...
http://ron-paul-campaign.blogspot.co...ay-winner.html
----- Original Message -----
Becoming a delegate takes less time than it does to read the following:


PEOPLE PLEASE READ THIS SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THAT WE CAN WIN THE NOMINATION AND STOP LISTENING TO THE MSM FOR YOUR INFO!
Posted February 6th, 2008 by SGP

I hope someone will put this on the front page so it doesn't get lost.

The MSM is not reporting how to become the nominee in a situation like this so I will tell you to stop getting your info from the MSM.

I know many of you are bummed about yesterday BUT THAT IS BECAUSE YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW THE ELECTION SYSTEM WORKS : Let me explain to you the reality of how to become the nominee.

First stop looking at who wins each states popular vote for most of these states the vote by the people is really nothing but a straw poll and have no real bearing on who will become the nominee. The only way this matters i s if 1 person receives 1192 delegates that are bound by state rules to be committed to that candidate. So if a candidate like McCain has 600 delegates now and he doesn't reach 1192 most of the delegates the state awarded him mean nothing and keep in mind in most of the states most of the people that represent the 600 for McCain are actually Ron Paul supporters. NOW there is no possible way that anyone in the race can achieve this goal now because of the major split in state wins by the candidates.

So what happens now you ask? You look at the number of delegates that Dr. Paul has that are uncommitted to the other candidates and will support him. these delegates are not decided by the popular vote ie: straw poll of the people. Since no one will have enough delegates to skate them through to the nomination we now must look at how many delegates NOT VOTES but delegates Dr. Paul has that are 100% uncommitted to the other candidates and will be 100% for Dr. Paul and are free to vote for whom they wish.

This race will go all the way to the convention for there is no other way for someone to receive the nomination until the convention.

The RNC will convene its annual Winter Meeting - and voters will continue to cast their ballots in the nation's primaries and caucuses. Candidates for delegate and alternate delegate to the convention will be elected - and thousands of convention participants and guests will begin planning their trips to Minneapolis-Saint Paul The first week in September 2008

SO WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN?

This means that all of the people that registered to become a delegate for Dr. Paul can go to the convention and cast their vote for Dr. Paul, now think about what i just said : Do you think for one second that all the people that voted for Dr. Paul and filed to become a delegate will not show up at the convention to vote for the good Doctor? Of course they will just like they battled the rain and the sleet and the 15 below zero winter weather to knock on doors and wave signs spreading our message.

Now i assure you that even though we didn't win the popular vote in many states WE DID PICK UP THE MAJORITY OF DELEGATES THAN ALL THE OTHER CANDIDATES IN MOST EVERY STATE EXCEPT A FEW. So yes they won the straw poll and we won what counts which is delegates.

Doesn't Dr. Paul need to WIN 5 states to be on the ballot at the convention for the nomination?

NO THIS IS NOT TRUE for people were just confused on how it actually works.

We only need the majority of delegates from 5 states to be put on the ballot NOT THE POPULAR VOTE OF 5 STATES and i assure you we have picked up the majority of uncommitted delegates for Dr. Paul in more than 5 states.

Do any of you remember seeing posts by myself and many others that said BECOME A DELEGATE? There is still time in most states to become a delegate for the convention and we are picking up more of them every day.

So please STOP you worry too much because you do not understand how the election system works and you thought we lost didn't you?

The fact is Dr. Paul is a genius in his strategy and we are further ahead in delegates than you think and we can win the nomination.

I hope this gives a better understanding of how we have been winning even though most of you thought we were not.

NOW LETS KEEP WORKING!

Dr. Steve Parent

[anaconda]

Also, if it is a viable strategy for RP to play ball at a brokered convention then wouldn't it have been a great strategy for Mitt Romney? Why wouldn't he stay in and mix it up at the brokered convention?

[beachmaster]

If this is still America, then we can win.

That's a mighty big if.

[IcyPeaceMaker]

Also, if it is a viable strategy for RP to play ball at a brokered convention then wouldn't it have been a great strategy for Mitt Romney? Why wouldn't he stay in and mix it up at the brokered convention?

I believe someone promised Romney something. Maybe Huck, maybe McCain, maybe the RNC,

[Liberté]

It is already Feb 8th and we have not yet had a press release posted on RonPaul2008

There will be no brokered convention, and even if they did our guy would not get the nomination. We have to admit that we failed to connect with the GOP or the mainstream. You can be cynical, and call voters Sheeple or you can admit that they made their decision on values they believe in.

I for one will admit that the other candidates have valid strengths as well as weaknesses. In the overall scheme of things our candidate is best (in our opinions.) But a lot of people think Ron Paul is dead wrong, as fervently as we think he is right.

Political analysts could write a book about why we failed in 2008, but it mainly comes down to 2 main reasons:
(1) RP is too principled to act like a politician (i.e. if you have heard one RP speech you have hurt them all, we got hung up on a few issues that matter to the core, and ignored the issues of the majority.) Voters don’t want to hear about the NAU, CFR, Federal Reserve, Empire building. They wanted to hear about America First, Welfare Reform, Border Security, How the United States is the Greatest Nation in the world… in short, to much negative not enough positive.
(2) Ron Paul’s core supporters alienated moderate voters. Any sales person knows YOU never attack your opponent; you give them compliments and lead the pigeon (voter) to a conclusion where THEY attack your opponent. AND of course YOU never attack the pigeon. We came off as raving lunatics just as the MSM wanted. Many RP supporters fell into that trap like rabbits (and we think THEY are Sheeple… pffttt, look to ourselves first.)

Finally the campaign was aimed at us, his core supporters, when it should have been directed at the majority. Sometimes saying less and coaching your words is NECESSARY! This is politics after all.

Now we have no choice but to vote for McCain, because if we don't we will have an Obama or Hilary President. If that happens the Constitution is dead, burned to ash.. with McCain it is only singed a bit more... now we wait for 2012 and we learn from our mistakes. We vote for RP up until the very last primary, but when McCain gets the Nod we vote for him in the general election. If you don't, then I consider you to be worse than a NeoCon or a NeoLib, an enemy to the Constitution.

[anaconda]

IcyPeaceMaker thank you for the fascinating post. Do you know if there is some info on this stuff to read somewhere?

I do have a question for you: How do you know that the majority of delegates in most of the states personally favor Ron Paul?

Thanks again.

[beachmaster]

It is already Feb 8th and we have not yet had a press release posted on RonPaul2008

There will be no brokered convention, and even if they did our guy would not get the nomination. We have to admit that we failed to connect with the GOP or the mainstream. You can be cynical, and call voters Sheeple or you can admit that they made their decision on values they believe in.

I for one will admit that the other candidates have valid strengths as well as weaknesses. In the overall scheme of things our candidate is best (in our opinions.) But a lot of people think Ron Paul is dead wrong, as fervently as we think he is right.

Political analysts could write a book about why we failed in 2008, but it mainly comes down to 2 main reasons:
(1) RP is too principled to act like a politician (i.e. if you have heard one RP speech you have hurt them all, we got hung up on a few issues that matter to the core, and ignored the issues of the majority.) Voters don’t want to hear about the NAU, CFR, Federal Reserve, Empire building. They wanted to hear about America First, Welfare Reform, Border Security, How the United States is the Greatest Nation in the world… in short, to much negative not enough positive.
(2) Ron Paul’s core supporters alienated moderate voters. Any sales person knows YOU never attack your opponent; you give them compliments and lead the pigeon (voter) to a conclusion where THEY attack your opponent. AND of course YOU never attack the pigeon. We came off as raving lunatics just as the MSM wanted. Many RP supporters fell into that trap like rabbits (and we think THEY are Sheeple… pffttt, look to ourselves first.)

Finally the campaign was aimed at us, his core supporters, when it should have been directed at the majority. Sometimes saying less and coaching your words is NECESSARY! This is politics after all.

Now we have no choice but to vote for McCain, because if we don't we will have an Obama or Hilary President. If that happens the Constitution is dead, burned to ash.. with McCain it is only singed a bit more... now we wait for 2012 and we learn from our mistakes. We vote for RP up until the very last primary, but when McCain gets the Nod we vote for him in the general election. If you don't, then I consider you to be worse than a NeoCon or a NeoLib, an enemy to the Constitution.

You're $#@!tin me right? You honestly believe the constitution (which is pretty much already dead) is safer with McCain than with Hilary/Obama?

You want to call me an enemy of the constitution if I don't vote for McCain? Call me what you want... you are a sellout and I dont' give a crap what you call me. I will NOT be voting for John McCain.


Edit to add: Oh, I see... 44 posts. Sorry, I mistook you for a true Ron Paul supporter there for a second... now I see what you really are. Ok, back to work now.

[Liberté]

You're $#@!tin me right? You honestly believe the constitution (which is pretty much already dead) is safer with McCain than with Hilary/Obama?

You want to call me an enemy of the constitution if I don't vote for McCain? Call me what you want... you are a sellout and I dont' give a crap what you call me. I will NOT be voting for John McCain.


Edit to add: Oh, I see... 44 posts. Sorry, I mistook you for a true Ron Paul supporter there for a second... now I see what you really are. Ok, back to work now.

Exactly, the Constitution is almost dead, do you think it will survive 8 years of Obama? Possiblly 3 Supreame Court Justices, hundres of appeals court and district judges? Do you think any judge Obama appoints would do anything with the Constitution besides wipe their butts?

With McCain we buy a little more time. We wait unti 2012, for a new candidate... What other choice is there?

I am an RP supporter, Minnesota's caucus is over so now I can afford to sit here and post. Go become a delegate, I encourage you too, I intend to try and go all the way to National. I am also running for election too! All these LaLa dreams.. I don't get how they help the movement at all.

[beachmaster]

Exactly, the Constitution is almost dead, do you think it will survive 8 years of Obama? Possiblly 3 Supreame Court Justices, hundres of appeals court and district judges? Do you think any judge Obama appoints would do anything with the Constitution besides wipe their butts?

With McCain we buy a little more time. We wait unti 2012, for a new candidate... What other choice is there?

I am an RP supporter, Minnesota's caucus is over so now I can afford to sit here and post. Go become a delegate, I encourage you too, I intend to try and go all the way to National. I am also running for election too! All these LaLa dreams.. I don't get how they help the movement at all.

How you can even begin to think that McCain will be one whit better than Hiterly or Obama amazes me! Pat Buchanan just said McCain will make Dick Cheney look like Ghandi!! 100 year war... do you have a freaking clue as how bad endless unconstitutional wars are for the constitution?

As to signing up to be a delegate, yes I've done that.

[anaconda]

At the convention can the delegates, if and when they become uncommitted, vote for someone that has "dropped out?" Could they decide to vote for Romney, for example, and fully expect him to accept the nomination?

[Laja]

We're going to a brokered convention:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4xW35x0f9U

[Liberté]

How you can even begin to think that McCain will be one whit better than Hiterly or Obama amazes me! Pat Buchanan just said McCain will make Dick Cheney look like Ghandi!! 100 year war... do you have a freaking clue as how bad endless unconstitutional wars are for the constitution?

As to signing up to be a delegate, yes I've done that.

McCain will be better than Clinton or Obama... and I doubt he will be a 2 term President... so what is your plan then? After the convention what will you do? I think it is unfair to mislead people... hope is nice, but it isnt' negative to be realistic either.

Now, I would adore a Ron Paul Presidency, but it wouldn't happen. I suggest we vote for McCain, support Ron Paul for congress, elect a lot of State and Federal Liberty Candidates (and local too: school board, city council, GOP precinct chairs), and spend the next four years building a Political Machine like the NeoCons and NeoLibs have.. professional speech writers, pollsters, think tanks, etc...

In 2012 if we do all this the next GOP Candidate will be a conservative.

[AlexMerced]

Also, if it is a viable strategy for RP to play ball at a brokered convention then wouldn't it have been a great strategy for Mitt Romney? Why wouldn't he stay in and mix it up at the brokered convention?

- It wasn't a viable strategy for romney cause him and huck were splitting the vote and giving mccain the wins, there would be no brokered convention had stayed in the race.

- You must remember even if Mccain get 1190 votes in the first round, it is still not enough. All those bound delegates that mccain has won, at least many of them become unbound. A lot of those delegates are Ron Paul supporters, how do we know this, you had to have been around last November when we were pushing to fill all those slots.

[AlexMerced]

McCain will be better than Clinton or Obama... and I doubt he will be a 2 term President... so what is your plan then? After the convention what will you do? I think it is unfair to mislead people... hope is nice, but it isnt' negative to be realistic either.

Now, I would adore a Ron Paul Presidency, but it wouldn't happen. I suggest we vote for McCain, support Ron Paul for congress, elect a lot of State and Federal Liberty Candidates (and local too: school board, city council, GOP precinct chairs), and spend the next four years building a Political Machine like the NeoCons and NeoLibs have.. professional speech writers, pollsters, think tanks, etc...

In 2012 if we do all this the next GOP Candidate will be a conservative.

Why the hell should we vote Mccain?

being a realist is one thing, but damning your country is another

[beachmaster]

McCain will be better than Clinton or Obama... and I doubt he will be a 2 term President... so what is your plan then? After the convention what will you do? I think it is unfair to mislead people... hope is nice, but it isnt' negative to be realistic either.

What will I do then? Same thing I've been telling all my friends, people on these forums, and at my meetup, etc., which is that I will write Ron Paul in if it comes to that. And that is NOT misleading people... I'm telling the truth. I vote on principles. A vote for the "lesser of two evils" is still a vote for evil. And it remains to be seen who is more evil, Hiterly, Obama, or McCain... as far as I'm concerned, they are all just group hugging each other in a socialist love fest and trying to get people like you to think that there's actually a dime's worth of difference between them. Looks like it worked, at least on you.

[AlexMerced]

Mccain is not an option, Mccain is definetley the worse of all the options on both sides

He has a bad tempered, he has all the bad positions from both parties (pro war, Big government)

geez... Mccain is the WORST thing we can do to this country, I rather see Hillary than mccain

I WILL ONLY VOTE Ron Paul for president

[smtwngrl]

At a brokered convention, do the candidates have to receive a certain percent on the first vote in order to be included in other votes?

[Scribbles]

Mccain is not an option, Mccain is definetley the worse of all the options on both sides

He has a bad tempered, he has all the bad positions from both parties (pro war, Big government)

geez... Mccain is the WORST thing we can do to this country, I rather see Hillary than mccain

I WILL ONLY VOTE Ron Paul for president

Agreed McCain is the worst candidate ever. Period. He is basically a Democrat that supports the war, along with every Democrat/Socialist policy. Can't expect anything less from a man that was considered as a running mate for John Kerry. He was ready to leave the republican party 4 years ago, and now he's the party front runner, hah!

It'll be a cold day in hell before I'll vote for McCain.

[fabijo]

We're going to a brokered convention:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4xW35x0f9U

Okay. Now I see where some people have been getting the idea that others are acting like we are DEFINITELY having a brokered convention.

I HOPE we are going to have one, but I wouldn't say it is a sure thing. That video is good, but it is just scary to imagine McCain getting that close to the magic number of 1191.