Global Warming/Climate Change

[MJ777]

I recieve an email update regarding climate change news and alternative energy solutions. This web article was one of the features this week. http://grist.org/news/maindish/2007/07/06/candidates/
This was posted 7/06 and then updated 8/07 with no change.

"Ron Paul is ... kind of a hoot, isn't he? But he's had nothing to say on climate and energy, other than that he opposes central government control over energy and wants to end all subsidies to energy companies. -- DR

Grist and Outside have requested an interview with Paul.
Fact sheet on Paul coming soon"

I posted a comment about how I see Dr. Paul's policy of economic freedom would impact this issue. I also explained why his Hemp Farming Bill is key to freedom from fossil fuels. My comment follows:

One of the best things we can do to fight global warming is to stop the federal subsidies to big corporations, especially oil. This would end under Dr. Paul. Entreprenuers, small business people all over the country are producing clean energy from numerous sources and (without gov't interference and over-regulation) they could compete in the free market. He introduced the 2005 and the current 2007 Hemp Farming Bill. We could grow enough Industrial Hemp (Low THC, non-drug variety of Cannabis) on currently vacant land that is not suitable for other crops to completely end our need for coal or for foreign oil. Over 25,000 "green" products can be made from hemp. Hemp is extremely well suited for new technologies in biomass/biofuel. It's yield per acre is as much as 100 times that of corn, doesn't need chemicals to grow, and actually re-nourishes the soil, so it can be used as a rotational crop. Every part of the plant can be used for everything from paper to clothes to building products and car parts. Other countries are already using hemp, but we have to import it from Canada (which is why it's so expensive now), while our farmers get paid to let fields sit idle. Hemp can be grown in every state and small (compared to refineries and power plants) processing plants would sprout up to process the locally grown hemp into fuel and other products. The fuel would only have to be trucked locally, instead of across the country and across the world. The cost would be much cheaper, the infrastruture is already there, and the economy would explode with all of the new jobs.

When government gets out of the people's way, people have the choice to choose and to invent and to succeed. That is why Ron Paul is so popular with people who have an understanding of how economics affects everything else.

This is my #1 prob with the Dems. It's all about raising taxes "on the rich". I'm poor so it doesn't affect me personally, but I understand the unintended consequences of that. They end up collecting less money because they move more out of the country! Think of what happens when we cut spending in Washington and fire the IRS? Think of all the money people would have left in their pockets to start/expand their businesses -- we could compete with China again in manufacturing without our repressive tax structure.

[NCGOPer_for_Paul]

The best thing we can do to "fight global warming" is to stop giving it creedence. It's a bunch of socialist, globalist bullcrap designed to scare people into believing limiting their freedom will "save the planet".

Eliminate the silliness surrounding "pollution controls", jobs increase because government gets out of business' business.

If someone is truly polluting, treat it as a property crime issue.

[hard@work]

RP needs to come up with a real plan for addressing this issue aside from "I don't believe it exists". There's no reason that he cannot address a solution for global warming (if in his view "it does even exist) without sacrificing his integrity.

[Broadlighter]

In spite of anything Al Gore has to say, there is still very much a debate among the world's pre-eminent meteorologists over the causes of global warming and whether or not its effects are harming the planet or moving us closer to environmental cataclysm.

You may not be able to persuade anyone on this, but one idea that would appeal to them is that Ron Paul's plank of ending the collusion between government and corporations especially goes for oil companies. This would help remove barriers to the marketplace for alternative energy ideas to take root.

I would also appeal to them on the idea that they have mis-identified the true enemy, those who control our's and the world's currency. That, hopefully, should get them thinking.

[Kregener]

What NCGOPer_for_Paul said.

Global Warming is all part of "The Plan".

[Man from La Mancha]

Global warming by man is not happening.

Earth's atmosphere is a layer of gases surrounding the planet Earth and retained by the Earth's gravity. It contains roughly (by molar content/volume) 78% nitrogen, (normally inert except upon electrolysis by lightning[1] and in certain biochemical processes of nitrogen fixation), 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, trace amounts of other gases, and a variable amount (average around 1%) of water vapor. Do you really think that this small amount is going influence much?



Water vapor is a naturally occurring greenhouse gas and accounts for the largest percentage of the greenhouse effect, between 36% and 90% [2]. Water vapor concentrations fluctuate regionally, but human activity does not directly affect water vapor concentrations except at local scales (for example, near irrigated fields).
Water vapor constitutes Earth's most significant greenhouse gas, accounting for about 95% of Earth's greenhouse effect (4). Interestingly, many "facts and figures' regarding global warming completely ignore the powerful effects of water vapor in the greenhouse system, carelessly (perhaps, deliberately) overstating human impacts as much as 20-fold. You ain't going to control water vapor baby!
Water vapor is 99.999% of natural origin. Other atmospheric greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide (CO2), methane (CH4), nitrous oxide (N2O), and miscellaneous other gases (CFC's, etc.), are also mostly of natural origin (except for the latter, which is mostly anthropogenic).


Human activities contribute slightly to greenhouse gas concentrations through farming, manufacturing, power generation, and transportation. However, these emissions are so dwarfed in comparison to emissions from natural sources we can do nothing about, that even the most costly efforts to limit human emissions would have a very small-- perhaps undetectable-- effect on global climate.


Earth warming is real and is caused by the sun and under water magma releases and there is nothing we can do about so get over it. This kind of stuff has been happening for million of years. Why do think they call the country Greenland, well before our last 300 yr. earth cooling the country wasn't covered in ice.

We all should be so lucky if co2 goes up. That means the plants grow better, producing more food and oxygen for us.

[MJ777]

What your individual belief regarding Climate change is, is not the point here. The vast majority of scientists believe it and a majority of Americans believe it. If you want to believe it's a socialist conspiracy or something, fine, but it's a huge issue for many. Even if it weren't for global warming or having to buy oil from terrorists, just the pollution we are pouring into the air, water and soil is a public health disaster. Surely you can't be for "dirty" energy when there are "clean" solutions out there! It's not a choice between having the comforts we enjoy or living in caves....we just need to change the sources of energy. I think pointing out the benefits of Hemp Farming and the fact that Paul has championed that issue and the benefits of a free-market economy to people who do care about global warming is important. People from all sides of the political spectrum support Dr. Paul for different reasons and we should appreciate that.

[PennCustom4RP]

Climate Change or Global Warming, however you wish to term it, is inevitable. It has happened before and will happen again, it is a cyclical process.
Having said that, I prefer to breathe non toxic air, and we as humans should not have an additive input, and should always look to cleaner, less environmentally impacting ways to achieve our goals, whatever they might be.

my .02

[BenIsForRon]

One point, global warming is (mostly) caused by man, a majority of scientists in all disciplines all over the world agree on this.

How else would you explain the sizes of glaciers in the american west going down over 50% in the past twenty years. Natural warming doesn't happen that fast.

For everyone who doesn't believe in man-made global warming, think about why you really don't believe in it. Is it because you haven't been convinced by the scientists, or because you don't want to believe in it?

[MJ777]

PennCustom4RP, well put! When it's 98 degrees out, I don't build a fire in the fireplace!

[ThePieSwindler]

Ron Paul has actually said that "most respectable science has shown that man does have some involvement in the process" or something to that end. However, he actually has ideas that woulkd get to the root of the problem. For example, the KYOTO treaty didn't do anything to make China, the world's biggest polluter, cut incentives - it only hurts the US. The burden to cut pollution - not even CO2 pollution but ALL pollution, needs to be put on government, NOT people. The way the Al Gore/ Live earth/Carbon tax crowd is portraying it rigt now, individuals and corporations are to blame. I love how Ron's ideas actually help the environment- cut environmentally harmful spending, legalize industrial hemp, private property rights, etc. We all KNOW that no matter what, Ron Paul will maintain liberty and not jump in to any treaty or resolution that hurts indivudual liberty in the name of some vague cause.

I just read an article in Time magazine about a glacier under water in the arctic that is beginning to TEEM with life, where a decade ago it was completely barren. Climate change (which is not even driven by man) is a GOOD thing, it begets life. There are REAL environmental issues that exist, man-made global warming is just a cult tool being utilized by politicians. The moment i heard the global central banks were behind a carbon tax, the red flags went up. There are ways to help the environment, but the methods being proposed right now are COMPLETELY ignoring the REAL issues.

Some real problems: deforestation, GOVERNMENTS dumping nerve gas/waste into oceans and rivers, "experimental" genetic engineering, the air force developing anti-matter weapons: http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/kno...hp?itemid=1920

and other terrible things that mostly GOVERNMENTS do to harm the planet. It is not the people's fault, so why should they be taxed? GOVERNMENTS ARE THE PROBLEM! NOT PEOPLE OR CORPORATIONS (actually corporations are the problem, but only because of government involvement!)

[1000-points-of-fright]

One point, global warming is (mostly) caused by man, a majority of scientists in all disciplines all over the world agree on this.

How else would you explain the sizes of glaciers in the american west going down over 50% in the past twenty years. Natural warming doesn't happen that fast.

For everyone who doesn't believe in man-made global warming, think about why you really don't believe in it. Is it because you haven't been convinced by the scientists, or because you don't want to believe in it?

No it isn't and the majority of scientists once believed the sun orbited the earth. I think they were wrong.

How do you know how fast the earth is supposed to cool and heat? Ever consider that in addition to temperature changes, the rate of change varies?

How do you explain the retreating mountain glaciers exposing centuries old silver mines with the tools all stacked up waiting for the workers to return in the spring when the snows melted... which they didn't until now.

[ThePieSwindler]

One point, global warming is (mostly) caused by man, a majority of scientists in all disciplines all over the world agree on this.

How else would you explain the sizes of glaciers in the american west going down over 50% in the past twenty years. Natural warming doesn't happen that fast.

For everyone who doesn't believe in man-made global warming, think about why you really don't believe in it. Is it because you haven't been convinced by the scientists, or because you don't want to believe in it?

Its because a red flag is raised when the main people shouting to us that we need large scale change are politicians and not scientists. (SOME but not ALL)Scientists are cautiously warning us, but politicians are screaming and demogoguing, saying that "the time for debate is over" and that we need to tax people etc, when it is GOVERNMENTS that cause the VAST MAJORITY of pollution.

As for the glaciers melting arguement, this is just absurd. Show me where warming doesn't happen that fast? Ice ages often come in a matter of decades, and so do cooling periods. And CO2 in the atmosphere comes from mostly natural sources, such as volcanoes. And it isn't even the most prevalent greenhouse gas! Lawl! Just saying "most respectable scientists back man made global warming up, look at the glaciers melting!" doesn't mean $#@! until you break down and analyze the science. Many IPCC scientists that signed on didn't even know exactly what they were signing on to, and recanted it later.

But let us assume it is manmade. Who is to blame? Government - they are the biggest polluter. Thats why treaties like KYOTO are a joke - they force the US to cut down on emissions, but do nothing to China, which is easily the biggest polluter in the world.

As for what Ron would do, he would get to the root of the problem and not penalize the people. He would cut environmentally harmful GOVERNMENT spending, and enforce property rights to make sure that you cannot pollute your neighbors air or land or water. That is much more effective than a carbon tax or other wonderful plans that will not only not do anything, but will simply line the pockets of the central bankers while the "problem" does not improve.

[constituent]

Global warming isn't the real issue.

foul air is, the asthma epidemic is.

Cars, power generation, it's all to blame, and something has to be done about it. Lawsuits are our best option.. and if that doesn't work, direct action.

[ThePieSwindler]

Global warming isn't the real issue.

foul air is, the asthma epidemic is.

Cars, power generation, it's all to blame, and something has to be done about it. Lawsuits are our best option.. and if that doesn't work, direct action.

Whicih is why Ron's idea to legalize industrial hemp would be so beneficial on so many levels. Its illogical that it is still illegal!

[constituent]

it's still illegal...

uh...

brb.

[1000-points-of-fright]

Ron Paul has actually said that "most respectable science has shown that man does have some involvement in the process" or something to that end.

Actually I think he said "the jury is still out on that". I can't remember which video it is, otherwise I'd link to it. Maybe the Google Interview?

[BenIsForRon]

Yeah don't get me wrong guys, I think Ron Paul's idea's are the best to protect the environment, as long as he is really serious about enforcing property rights.

But a majority of scientists really do believe global warming is happening, not just the guys in the IPCC. If you look in published journals a vast majority of ecologists, climatologists, chemists, biologists, geologists, are in basic agreement about how global warming is happening.

And I'm definitely not saying that governments aren't trying to take advantage of the situation either. They want to use it to further their power, not actually do anything about the problem. I'm definitely against fake solutions like the Kyoto treaty.

I think there are two ways you can go on this, gradually increase environmental regulations on industries that are major polluters, OR increase local people's ability to sue, say, a coal mining company that is polluting their local water supply and killing indigenous wildlife.

And Pieswindler, could you tell me where you found that info on the IPCC scientists, I've always been suspect of some of their policy recommendations.

[1000-points-of-fright]

But a majority of scientists really do believe global warming is happening, not just the guys in the IPCC. If you look in published journals a vast majority of ecologists, climatologists, chemists, biologists, geologists, are in basic agreement about how global warming is happening.

I hate to be a nitpicker, but that's not what you originally posted and it's an important distinction.

You said....

One point, global warming is (mostly) caused by man, a majority of scientists in all disciplines all over the world agree on this.

There is a BIG difference between agreeing that global warming is happening and agreeing that it's caused even partially by humans.

I don't think anyone denies that the earth is warming. The debate is about what or who is causing it.

[angelatc]

RP needs to come up with a real plan for addressing this issue aside from "I don't believe it exists". There's no reason that he cannot address a solution for global warming (if in his view "it does even exist) without sacrificing his integrity.

He is a man of science. It seems that he should be able to give it a better argument than I can.

[angelatc]

Global warming isn't the real issue.

foul air is, the asthma epidemic is.

.

Our air is much cleaner now than it was in the 60's and 70's, and yet respitory diseases are spiraling upward.

[BenIsForRon]

but that's not what you originally posted and it's an important distinction.

yeah, I know it's an important distinction, and I meant the same things in both posts, that the warming is being significantly accelerated by humans. This has been the consensus by most scientists for a long time.

This accelerated warming is wiping out ecosystems and displacing populations all over the world, that's why I'm passionate about it, even though Ron doesn't usually like talking about the environment because it's a difficult issue for a lot of libertarians.

[1000-points-of-fright]

Global warming isn't the real issue.

foul air is, the asthma epidemic is.

Cars, power generation, it's all to blame, and something has to be done about it. Lawsuits are our best option.. and if that doesn't work, direct action.

Hey! We agree on something!

Global Warming and pollution are two different issues. The eco-communist Global Warming argument revolves totally around CO2. We need CO2 in the atmosphere. We can inhale CO2 without damaging ourselves as long as we get oxygen too. Plants need CO2.

CO2 is NOT a pollutant.

[Capitalism]

Knock down government buildings and plant trees in their place.

[Broadlighter]

You wouldn't want a heart specialist to deliver a baby, now, would you?

Need any evidence of highly qualified and credible scientists who challenge the Al Gore global warming orthodoxy. Check this out:

Global Warming Deniers

Look at the links and read some of the articles they jump to.

To say that the debate among scientists is settled on this matter is about as disengenuous as it gets. I used to work for a university with a pretty strong science emphasis and believe me, getting all scientists to agree on anything of the magnitude of Al Gore's Global Warming 'consensus' is like trying to lead a herd of cats. Go figure.

And to argue that scientists from many disciplines agree on Global Warming doesn't make the argument more credible. I'll trust what MIT's leading meteorologist and Alabama U's leading hurricane scientist say before Al Gore or any botanist for that matter. The other earth scientists who don't specialize in meteorology are not adequately qualified to tell us about global warming. They may be able to tell us of its effects as it relates to their field, but not on the big picture.

[lucius]

The best thing we can do to "fight global warming" is to stop giving it creedence. It's a bunch of socialist, globalist bullcrap designed to scare people into believing limiting their freedom will "save the planet".

Eliminate the silliness surrounding "pollution controls", jobs increase because government gets out of business' business.

If someone is truly polluting, treat it as a property crime issue.

Well put!

[NCGOPer_for_Paul]

Our air is much cleaner now than it was in the 60's and 70's, and yet respitory diseases are spiraling upward.

Yes, this one is easy.

Our lifestyles have changed dramatically. I'm certainly not arguing for less air conditioning, as I sit here in Charlotte, with a predicted high of 103 today, but don't you think the fact that everywhere is air conditioned has something to do with the increase in respiratory diseases? Clean air can magnify the problems of bad air.

I'm also sure the changes in our diets have something to do with it as well. If you eat a diet consisting mainly of processed foods, I think it may affect your health.

I'm pretty sure our constant rushing around contributes as well.

And, as I believe the way you feel is a reflection of what you hear, the nonsense weather reports on the local news cause people to panic over a few days of ridiculous heat.

[MJ777]

As for what Ron would do, he would get to the root of the problem and not penalize the people. He would cut environmentally harmful GOVERNMENT spending, and enforce property rights to make sure that you cannot pollute your neighbors air or land or water. That is much more effective than a carbon tax or other wonderful plans that will not only not do anything, but will simply line the pockets of the central bankers while the "problem" does not improve.

While I do think that man has had a negative effect on the planet, I also understand that some climate change is part of the natural processes. We may not be 100% in agreement on how much man is responsible, but we are in agreement on the solutions!! I agree Kyoto is BS, I don't think gov't will solve the problem, and I think all this carbon tax crap is a big scheme. We can't even find out where our tax money goes (or weapons in Iraq); who is going to keep track of where the extra money the power plants charge US for this "carbon tax" is going? Just because I have looked at this issue and decided it to be real and important personally, doesn't mean I buy the SOLUTIONS being offered by Gore et al.

[MJ777]

I guess my point is, there are alot of people out there concerned about the environment for various reasons. Telling them they're just wrong does our cause no good. We still have evolution deniers and people who believe the earth is the center of the universe. I am not here to sway opinion. I think it's important that we point out how much better R.P.'s freedom from gov't stand would be for the environment than more big gov't treaties, regulations, taxes, etc. Otherwise they just gravitate to the Dems and we know how bad that can be!

[fj45lvr]

more warmth and higher CO2 is a great thing for the planet and leads to lush and expansive plant life!!

I go camping all the time in valleys that were created by glaciers but they melted...it really makes me panic.

Just FOLLOW THE MONEY......the GW movement is all about the money....I especially find it funny when some criticize science people for being "skeptical" as if they are ALL corporate stooges when the majority of "funding" is by far on the other "side" of the hysteria.....when you REALLY get down to the nuts and bolts all this really is being ramped up for is a MASSIVE NEW TAX SCHEME (FOLLOW THE MONEY).