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Thread: The Most Libertarian Country in the World is...

  1. #1

    Default The Most Libertarian Country in the World is...

    Anyone know which country is the most libertarian country in the world?

    Which country has:

    * The most personal/individual freedom
    * The most respect for civil liberties
    * The most limited government
    * The most respect for its constitution
    * The most economic freedom
    * The lowest taxes
    * Sound money

    Are there any little-known gems in the world?

    I vote for America, but our freedom is fading fast here. I've heard that Ireland, Switzerland, and The Bahamas are all fairly libertarian. I don't know too much about the subject though.

    Is America still the freest nation on earth?

    If not, which country gets your vote, and why?



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  3. #2

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    Free? You need a "permit" for everything here in a America.
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  4. #3

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    This is relevant to my interests.

  5. #4

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    I don't know about overall, but I don't plan on learning a foreign language, and I have heard that Mauritius and New Zealand are nice.

  6. #5

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    Switzerland is the closest to what you describe.
    One hundred or so years ago I would have said america.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron2Win View Post
    Free? You need a "permit" for everything here in a America.
    I agree; we're not free. But, compared to a lot of other countries, we are better off as citizens here. We still have the freest system I know about.

    I'm looking for contradictions to my supposition.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by gb13 View Post
    I agree; we're not free. But, compared to a lot of other countries, we are better off as citizens here. We still have the freest system I know about.

    I'm looking for contradictions to my supposition.
    We are rapidly getting worse though, as we have been for some time. Give it a while.

  9. #8

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    Economically Lithuania seems like it is moving toward libertarian policies. And prospering a lot, obviously.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by bcreps85 View Post
    We are rapidly getting worse though, as we have been for some time. Give it a while.
    I agree. As I said in my first post, we are losing our freedoms fast here. If things go on the way they have been, I think we are all in for a terrible turn of events in America. Things could get really ugly.

  11. #10

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    http://www.stateofworldliberty.org/report/rankings.html
    top ten
    1 Estonia
    2 Ireland
    3 Canada
    4 Switzerland
    5 Iceland
    6 Bahamas
    7 United Kingdom
    8 United States
    9 Cyprus
    10 New Zealand

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by gb13 View Post
    Anyone know which country is the most libertarian country in the world?

    Which country has:

    * The most personal/individual freedom
    * The most respect for civil liberties
    * The most limited government
    * The most respect for its constitution
    * The most economic freedom
    * The lowest taxes
    * Sound money

    Are there any little-known gems in the world?

    I vote for America, but our freedom is fading fast here. I've heard that Ireland, Switzerland, and The Bahamas are all fairly libertarian. I don't know too much about the subject though.

    Is America still the freest nation on earth?

    If not, which country gets your vote, and why?
    Switzerland meets all of your requirements. They have a fiat currency but they are the most strict of all the central bankers. Swiss Francs are as good as gold... as are Swiss Bonds.

    Most of the entire first world gets wiped out with their gun laws, taxation, and social welfare programs. Switzerland has some of the best gun laws in the world.

    As a last note on Switzerland... There is a very high barrier to entry. Most Americans could never afford to move there. I have debated moving there many times and it always comes down to weather. If Switzerland had a better climate I would have moved there 10 years ago.
    Last edited by daviddee; 01-31-2008 at 12:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by athlon64bit View Post
    Switzerland is the closest to what you describe.
    One hundred or so years ago I would have said america.
    just go 5kph over the speed limit and see how free they are!

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddee View Post
    Switzerland is really the only other option.

    Most the entire first world gets wiped out with their gun laws, taxation, and social welfare programs.

    As a last note on Switzerland... There is a very high barrier to entry. Most Americans could never afford to move there. I have debated moving there many times and it always comes down to weather. If Switzerland has a better climate I would have moved there 10 years ago.
    I don't think people here know how strict the swiss laws and police enforcement are, people there end up with 20,000 franc fines for speeding about 30km/h (18 or so mph) over, that is over $18,000 people!! That is not freedom, that is insanity!

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by gb13 View Post
    Anyone know which country is the most libertarian country in the world?
    Nevada, apparently

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by steph3n View Post
    I don't think people here know how strict the swiss laws and police enforcement are, people there end up with 20,000 franc fines for speeding about 30km/h (18 or so mph) over
    As opposed to life in prison in the USA for drug possession?

    Most all crimes in Switzerland are civil offenses ($$$) where everything in this country is criminal + civil (we lock you up and take all of your shit).

    As to the speeding fines... You have to look at this from the Swiss perspective. The Swiss would ask, "What right do you have to kill or endanger the life of an another Swiss citizen with your speeding on snow filled/icy road?". This is also why abortion was illegal in Switzerland for a very, very long time. The mindset was, "What right do you have to kill an unborn Swiss citizen?". This is a country that truly believes all Swiss citizens are equal and you have no right to infringe on another Swiss citizens liberty.

    Your 20,000 franc fine for 30km/h is out of control. As it is usually 1500 francs for 30km over.

    The area where the Swiss fail is they have adopted the UK's method of speed cams everywhere. So if you are speeding you will get a ticket in the mail.
    Last edited by daviddee; 01-31-2008 at 12:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddee View Post
    As opposed to life in prison in the USA for drug possession?

    Most all crimes in Switzerland are civil offenses ($$$) where everything in this country is criminal + civil (we lock you up and take all of your shit).

    As to the speeding fines... You have to look at this from the Swiss perspective. The Swiss would ask, "What right do you have to kill or endanger the life of an another Swiss citizen with your speeding on snow filled/icy road?". This is also why abortion was illegal in Switzerland for a very, very long time. The mindset was, "What right do you have to kill an unborn Swiss citizen?"

    Your 20,000 franc fine for 30km/h is out of control. As it is usually 1500 francs for 30km over.

    The area where the Swiss fail is they have adopted the UK's method of speed cams everywhere. So if you are speeding you will get a ticket in the mail.
    yep and non citizen = substandard person, literally.

    oh and the roads aren't icy all the time so that isn't an excuse

  18. #17

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    http://www.stateofworldliberty.org/report/rankings.html

    Ireland as #2, followed by Switzerland, and Canada.. Wow! America is only number 8.

    Switzerland has $18,000 speeding tickets? Damn... I'd go broke in 2 months. Their climate is pretty rough, and they're landlocked, too. But, Ireland is supposed to be beautiful all year round.
    Last edited by gb13; 01-31-2008 at 12:42 AM.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by steph3n View Post
    yep and non citizen = substandard person, literally.
    The way it should be.

    That was a huge plus for me in considering moving there.

    As a tax paying Swiss citizen I should have more right/preference than non-Swiss people in the country.

    Swiss mindset would say, "Why should you, a non-Swiss citizen, have more rights than a tax paying Swiss citizen?"

    The country is Libertarian to the max.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by steph3n View Post
    yep and non citizen = substandard person, literally.

    oh and the roads aren't icy all the time so that isn't an excuse
    No, they are not icy all the time, but the fact remains that you do not have the right to endanger the life of another Swiss citizen with your driving habits.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by gb13 View Post
    http://www.stateofworldliberty.org/report/rankings.html

    Ireland as #2, followed by Switzerland, and Canada.. Wow! America is only number 8.

    Switzerland has $18,000 speeding tickets? Damn... I'd go broke in 2 months. Their climate is pretty rough, too. But, Ireland is supposed to be beautiful all year round.
    Switzerland has 3 or 4 good months of the year... depending on where you are.

    If you love snow and winter sports... It has great weather 8 months of the year or more.

    Ireland has great weather if you like overcast days mixed with drizzle.

    Believe me, I have been to and researched all of these places. The weather kills most, if not all, places.

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    I dont suppose any of those on this list are common law countries with a constitutional right to the tools of self defense?

    Switzerland may have good banking and lots of guns, but they are NOT libertarian. They take their laws VERY seriously, and you can run afoul of them for very minor issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malum Prohibitum View Post
    I dont suppose any of those on this list are common law countries with a constitutional right to the tools of self defense?

    Switzerland may have good banking and lots of guns, but they are NOT libertarian. They take their laws VERY seriously, and you can run afoul of them for very minor issues.
    That was my point in saying it is not libertarian.
    Libertarian would not have the citizen/non citizen divide such as them.

    In addition the remove rights and privileges for the most minor offenses.
    David's replies on "your speeding endangering" yadda yadda isn't very libertarian either, since their cameras dont care if it is an empty road at 4am or a crowded road at 6pm, not to mention they even ticket 'unauthorized' uturns via these cameras.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malum Prohibitum View Post
    I dont suppose any of those on this list are common law countries with a constitutional right to the tools of self defense?

    Switzerland may have good banking and lots of guns, but they are NOT libertarian. They take their laws VERY seriously, and you can run afoul of them for very minor issues.
    A country should take their laws seriously... as that is what makes civil society.

    My motto with any country is, "Know the parameters, decide if you can live within those parameters, and know that if you move outside those parameters... you will have to deal with the pain."

    Classic examples of this are everywhere... The prisons in this country are full of people who knew the parameters and are dealing with the pain for violating those parameters (whether right or wrong).

    There are people who know the parameters, make no attempt to effect change on those parameters, and then bitch when they are dealt the harsh hand for violating them.

    A perfect example of the above is Malaysia or Singapore. When you enter the country you are told that if you are smuggling drugs you will be executed. Even knowing these parameters... people attempt to smuggle drugs into the country all time. When they are caught... they are executed. Do I agree with the policy? No. BUT the parameters are made clear and people choose to walk outside of the laws...
    Last edited by daviddee; 01-31-2008 at 12:56 AM.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by steph3n View Post
    That was my point in saying it is not libertarian.
    Libertarian would not have the citizen/non citizen divide such as them.

    In addition the remove rights and privileges for the most minor offenses.
    David's replies on "your speeding endangering" yadda yadda isn't very libertarian either, since their cameras dont care if it is an empty road at 4am or a crowded road at 6pm, not to mention they even ticket 'unauthorized' uturns via these cameras.
    The cams violate our constitutional rights and that is why I am against them here... You have the right to face your accuser. This is not possible with a camera... and this is why I live in a state that does not allow cameras.

    I was merely explaining the "Swiss mindset". My comments are 100% on point... in regards to how the Swiss think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddee View Post
    The cams violate our constitutional rights and that is why I am against them here... You have the right to face your accuser. This is not possible with a camera... and this is why I live in a state that does not allow cameras.

    I was merely explaining the "Swiss mindset". My comments are 100% on point... in regards to how the Swiss think.
    and their mindset is NOT libertarian!

  27. #26

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    New Zealand won't be in the top 10 for long.

    As someone that has travelled the world and lived in 5 countries, I can assure you, there's no way in God's green earth that America is freeier than NZ. The US is the most restrictive country I have ever lived in. Period.
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  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddee View Post
    The cams violate our constitutional rights and that is why I am against them here... You have the right to face your accuser. This is not possible with a camera... and this is why I live in a state that does not allow cameras.

    I was merely explaining the "Swiss mindset". My comments are 100% on point... in regards to how the Swiss think.
    I agree about the cameras. Totally bogus.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by steph3n View Post
    and their mindset is NOT libertarian!
    Sure they are.

    It is clear your view of Libertarians is incomplete or one sided.

    Please review:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian

    Please review:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialist

    It appears you are confusing Libertarians with Anarchists.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulVolunteer View Post
    New Zealand won't be in the top 10 for long.

    As someone that has travelled the world and lived in 5 countries, I can assure you, there's no way in God's green earth that America is freeier than NZ. The US is the most restrictive country I have ever lived in. Period.
    Depends what you consider free.

    Check out the tax rates in NZ.

    Try buying a gun.

    The USA is also a very big country... There are states with a considerably more freedom than others. It all depends on what you consider free/restrictive/necessary.

    I could never live in NZ and pay 49% on my income, 12.9% VAT, not own guns, etc. If I wanted the aforementioned I could move to California.
    Last edited by daviddee; 01-31-2008 at 01:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddee View Post
    Sure they are.

    It is clear your view of Libertarians is incomplete or one sided.

    Please review:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian

    Please review:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialist

    It appears you are confusing Libertarians with Anarchists.
    look, I am not trying to argue but libertarian minded candidates in the Swiss elections gain 5-10% support and that is it, that is not much different than here.
    I know what the libertarian platforms are, and I don't agree with their open borders policies I do like the swiss means on this, but calling it libertarian in nature is wrong. They are also moving much more toward the EU

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