Hey...
I feel that Dual citizenship is problem. You should not be able to vote in another country while being able to vote in America... Ones duality calls into question motivations and commitment.
Does Ron Paul agree or disagree on Dual citizenship?
No one here can speak for RP, but I'd venture to guess he'd say that the federal government has no right to tell you who your allegiances are to. Freedom should including being able to have allegiances to whomever you choose, provided you still respect and abide by the principles of the constitution.Originally Posted by Lord Xar
The only case in which he'd likely be opposed is if your allegiance to another regime requires that you undermine the principles of the constitution.
Personally, I'd like to gain citizenship to other countries without giving up US citizenship. I don't feel as if the government should tell me I have to have one home, one set of laws, and one land. If the income tax is eliminated, this would be less of an issue as well.
Actually they do - violation is called "treason". Punishable by death.
Very tough.
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion." - Thomas Jefferson
WATCH: The Money Masters - How International Bankers Gained Control of America
READ: Tragedy and Hope: A History of The World in Our Time - Carroll Quigley
How's it treason to have another citizenship if no actions are taken to undermine the constitution?
If I'm not born in the US and can't become president, then why would it be unreasonable for me to maintain citizenship in a nation where I can become president?
It's a problem and at one time was highly restricted for this very reason.
I'm not sure who got the laws relaxed - Ted Kennedy? - for dual citizenship, but with Israel it appears to be out of control since every Jewish person in the US can get it with no problem.
Then if they f' up, they can run away to Israel and fight extradition forever like Marc Rich.
Dual Citizen = Dual Loyalty.
I'm still trying to figure out what major Federal officials have dual citizenships. Heard rumors that Chertoff does. The head of US "Homeland Security".
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion." - Thomas Jefferson
WATCH: The Money Masters - How International Bankers Gained Control of America
READ: Tragedy and Hope: A History of The World in Our Time - Carroll Quigley
Yeah, I've heard that too, that's he's also a citizen of Israel.
Isn't there a law prohibiting those in our government from having a dual citizenship? I thought there was.
I've heard that too about Chertoff. I have no problem with people holding dual citizenship. (Disclaimer: I qualify for dual citizenship in a European country.) I DO have problems with members of the administration and members of Congress holding dual loyalties. Rahm Emanuel's another one.
My mother, native-born Thai, could have gotten dual-citizenship since the Thai king was giving them out, but she wasn't able to obtain it since she wasn't in Thailand at the time. But, I don't think it would effect anyone unless they held high political power. That's just my point of view :X.
"You know not what you are given, but forever will you know what has been taken away from you..."
"As long as we live beyond our means we are destined to live beneath our means." - Ron Paul at a CNBC Debate in Michigan (10/09/07)
well, I believe this IS A treasonous issue..
say, for instance 20million hispanics (mexicans) have dual citizenship, then they can sway policy that will directly affect american vs. mexico relations and such....
so if that happens, that could be BAD for the soveriegnty of america..
Those foreign born when they become US citizens take this oath:
"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."
So this would nullify their previous citizenship.
This link provides rules for dual citizenship:
http://www.richw.org/dualcit/law.html
US law relating to dual citizenship
If there's a New Way, I'll be the First in line...It better work this time!...Megadeth
I don't know.. I think having dual citizenship is a bad unless the following:
1. YOU CANNOT VOTE in America IF you have dual citizenship
2. NO politicians can have dual citizenship
that covers it.... if you have DUAL loyalty, then you shouldn't be able to vote in america... and you CERTAINLY should not be a policy maker WITH a dual citizenship.
That is clearly not the case... becasue WE DO Have citizens WITH dual citizenship..
Xar, I understand, but are these 'Naturalized' people or like those described in the link I sent, its all part of the 14th amendment.
I'd agree dual is not good, especially in regards to influencing politics, but what the hell, Dubya doesn't have dual citizenship, yet he still panders to the Mexican Govt...and others.
If it were an 'honorary' citizenship without any Rights or Responsibility, I wouldn't care.
If there's a New Way, I'll be the First in line...It better work this time!...Megadeth
No it doesn't, there are countries that don't accept that renunciation unless made personally at their embassies and there are even countries that don't even accept that.
I am a dual-citizen, American by birth, French through a parent. I got dual citizenship because I travel internationally a lot and needed EU citizenship to stay in Europe without a constant Visa. I would never undermine the Constitution, but I am feeling personally attacked here because of bogus claims - we have to follow the same rules as everyone else - in fact we have to follow 2 sets of rules sometimes (with taxes and whatnot). I see some stupid generalizations about Dual citizens that are bogus on this thread.
My best friend is South Korean. He is in the US army. He does not have a US passport. The army has many foreign nationals. Please do not come off as Xenophonic - many immigrants here love and defend America even if they do keep their ties to their homeland.
Last edited by trispear; 08-03-2007 at 06:19 PM.
I can agree with you on that point.and you CERTAINLY should not be a policy maker WITH a dual citizenship.
I disagree with you on the first point. Some people just want the second passport for use in an emergency.
My son was born in South Korea. He only has a US passport. The Korean government would give him citizenship but Korean law requires military service, so the law would require my son to denounce on or the other before his 18th birthday.
" Anyone can become angry. That is easy. But to be angry with the right person, to the right degree, at the right time, for the right purpose and in the right way - that is not easy." --Aristotle
I can get dual citizenship since my wife is a French citizen. Why should I have to give up my right to vote to obtain that?
You're assuming everyone who wants dual citizenship wasn't born here and then moved here. What about a case like mine? I was born in the US and have lived here all my life but maybe I want french citizenship to travel with a french passport or vote in their elections.
I can't help what other countries accept or do not accept, the point here is that the person attaining US citizenship swore this oath as condition of becoming a citizen. Which is legally binding, just as their Naturalization is.
This is what is described in the link I provided.I am a dual-citizen, American by birth, French through a parent. I got dual citizenship because I travel internationally a lot and needed EU citizenship to stay in Europe without a constant Visa. I would never undermine the Constitution, but I am feeling personally attacked here because of bogus claims - we have to follow the same rules as everyone else - in fact we have to follow 2 sets of rules sometimes (with taxes and whatnot). Please stop making stupid generalizations about Dual citizens that are bogus.
Your friend has US Army ID, better than a passport.My best friend is South Korean. He is in the US army. He does not have a US passport. The army has many foreign nationals. Please do not come off as Xenophonic - many immigrants here love and defend America even if they do keep their ties to their homeland.
Who is talking about Xenophobia? No one said you cannot have ties to homeland, as many have relatives abroad. But the question still remains where loyalty lies when push comes to shove, especially if that conflict is with that country.
Having said that, if you immigrate to America,(legally of course) America is your homeland, otherwise you are just on vacation.
If there's a New Way, I'll be the First in line...It better work this time!...Megadeth
I didn't swear to anything. I was born here! My grandparents are the ones who swore, not me. I just inherited...
Yeah, well, I wanted a Greek passport, but guess what? They'll all have EU passports before long, and I want no part of that. My window of opportunity has pretty much closed.I want french citizenship to travel with a french passport
sure, I totally understand but how do you find a balance.
I dont' think you have to be a french citizen to travel to france.. just a guess.
Some libertarians/constitutionalists get hung up on the whole "sovereignty" question, and I feel I should point it out because of what's been said on this thread. Sovereignty is only a means to an end: liberty. Sovereign states, on the whole, help the cause of liberty. That's why we should support them as an institution. Now, dual citizenship may in some way undermine a state's sovereignty because two different states will have power over the same individual. But dual citizenship does not generally undermine liberty. I suppose there are exceptions, say when one of the nationalities is North Korean, or some tyrannical regime, but on the whole it isn't bad because it merely give someone the right to live in two different countries.
Don't get stuck on the whole "sovereignty" thing. For Christ's sake, the Bill of Rights undermines the United States' sovereignty, and it's damn good that it does.
Who said anything about going to france?I dont' think you have to be a french citizen to travel to france.. just a guess.
Which is very different from their countries actually accepting the renunciation as legitimate or legal on their terms. From the wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renunci...of_citizenship
"Each country sets its own policies for formal renunciation of citizenship. There is a common concern that a person about to relinquish their citizenship do not become a stateless person and many countries require evidence of another citizenship or an official promise to grant citizenship before they release that person from citizenship.
Some countries may not allow renunciation of citizenship or establish administrative procedures that are essentially impossible to complete."
I read up on this before, I forget which countries though don't accept it.
What is specifically? That is a long document. When I applied for citizenship to France, I never even had to give an oath of allegiance, and I am not naturalized per se, I am considered a citizen by birth.This is what is described in the link I provided.
Restoring the Titles of Nobility amendment ratified in 1812 would end dual citizenship. (Google: original 13th amendment)
No person can owe loyalty to two (or more) masters. That's basic agency law and master/servant law.
Yeah, that's how it works in Greece too. It works that way in a number of the European countries, or at least it used to.When I applied for citizenship to France, I never even had to give an oath of allegiance, and I am not naturalized per se, I am considered a citizen by birth.
TONA was never ratified, it would not restrict dual-citizenship anyway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titles_...lity_Amendment
Yeah sorry man, its so long, bummer. I read it, its the 14th amendment, and it details the conditions for dual citizenship, and a situation just like yours, a parent from one country and a parent from another.
If there's a New Way, I'll be the First in line...It better work this time!...Megadeth
Well, if they pay taxes, they should be able to vote. Taxation without representation is a real problem.
Also, I question the logic that a lot of Mexicans in the US would want to warm political ties with the upper levels of politicians in Mexico. Look at the faces of Mexican immigrants and look at the faces of the politicians in Mexico. They're a completely different group of people. Part of the appeal for them to come here is that they can actually have influence over local (and now, national) politics.
I get the impression Mexicans can't influence politics in Mexico because they've been completely shut out. I don't think they can "fix" their own country, since their countries are places where free-markets don't exist and where there isn't enough wealth for the lower classes to sustain a revolution without outside assistance.
It's more likely, however, Mexican-Americans would warm political ties with the lower tiers of Mexican society. This is a problem for non-Mexican Americans because of the welfare state; however, if we're collecting taxes from them, they have a right. This is another reason why we have to eliminate the income tax.
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