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Thread: USA Today: The Economy Needs High Oil Prices

  1. #1

    USA Today: The Economy Needs High Oil Prices

    USA Today: The Economy Needs High Oil Prices
    http://mises.org/blog/usatoday-econo...igh-oil-prices
    Ryan McMaken (11 December 2014)

    Today's USA Today includes a Q and A about falling oil prices:

    A: Oil prices are collapsing. Consumers are pouring less of their money into their gas tanks. That should be good for the economy and stocks, right?

    Not exactly. The stock market is struggling this month as the decline in oil prices intensifies. There are several reasons for this. First is the direct hit. Lower gasoline prices result in lower prices of shares of energy stocks, which are a big contributor to the markets. Exxon Mobil (XOM) is the fourth most valuable company in the Standard & Poor’s 500 so when its shares tumble, that hurts the broad market. Shares of Exxon are down more than 12% this year, creating a big downward draft for the other companies to overcome.

    The "answer," provided by Matt Krantz tells us a few things about where oil is being positioned as a "driver" of the current economic expansion.

    1. First of all, the article reminds us of the uselessness of referring to "the economy" as one unified thing. Of course falling oil prices are good for some people, while they may be bad for others. People who use oil, and industries that are energy intensive, will of benefit from a fall in the oil price. Those who are heavily invested in oil (such as hedge funds, oil companies and others), on the other hand, will benefit from high prices. To refer simply to "the economy" tells us nothing at all about how oil prices really affect human beings in the real world. Frank Shostak explains here how "the economy" is just a metaphor.

    2. Oil is becoming something of a bubble industry and is being positioned in a way similar to where housing was prior to 2008. If we insert "housing" and housing related-industries in the USA Today piece where "oil" and oil-related industries now are, we find some striking similarities with what was being said about housing prior to 2008. We were told repeatedly how high housing prices were the key to keeping the economy chugging along. Certainly, this was true for many industries that were heavily invested in housing, but common sense tells us that falling housing prices are and were a good thing for people who actually use housing, especially low-income consumers of housing. Falling prices, as Jim Grant recently noted, constitute progress, not grave economic threats. But, when your focus is primarily on what prices do to hedge fund managers, Wall Street, and other chosen favorites of the central bank, (as is the case with most national business reporters like Krantz), of course high prices are a good thing, and a fall in prices is a reason for worry.

    3. Some still confuse correlation and causation. Implied in all the explanations of how a falling oil price is bad is the suggestion that a significant fall in prices could lead to a recession. Indeed, Mark Thornton recently discussed the correlation between falling oil prices and recessions. But of course Thornton did not suggest that the falling prices cause the recessions. In contrast, the peaking oil prices the precede a recession are indicators of a Fed-induced boom that precedes a bust. and in this case, there may even be more emphasis than usual on propping up prices, since oil is one of the few well-performing industries right now, producing a large portion of what little job growth there is nationwide, and a sizable share of GDP growth. The fact that there is such an emphasis now on boosting for high oil prices and claiming they are key to economic progress, we can possibly guess where the next round of bailouts for too-big-to-fail enterprises will be directed.
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  3. #2
    Nice Jim Grant quote there!

    Bloomberg did a good article on how a lot of this "bubble" was induced by the Fed yesterday

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-1...t-markets.html

  4. #3
    screw big oil , get it down to $40/ba where it belongs , big oil will find a way to make money .

    we have been subsidizing them for too long , even before opec we were giving big oil a depletion allowance for 50 yrs , let them find a way to survive like we do .

    i do not feel sorry for someone that has been robbing me for more than 70 years .

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by ILUVRP View Post
    screw big oil , get it down to $40/ba where it belongs , big oil will find a way to make money .

    we have been subsidizing them for too long , even before opec we were giving big oil a depletion allowance for 50 yrs , let them find a way to survive like we do .

    i do not feel sorry for someone that has been robbing me for more than 70 years .
    I don't disagree but this is a precursor to another 2008 event but considerably worse.

    The economic collapse started in 2008 the same way... just remember that this shale revolution was paid for by some bank or lender and when all of these projects start to go tits up because shale is not profitable under $70-80 Oil then a domino effect will begin on the lender's level that none of us will be able to escape.

    The economic $#@! storm is coming in 2015 and I hope you people have used the last 7 years to prepare for it.
    It's just an opinion... man...

  6. #5
    The stock market is not the economy . A real economy would be goods produced and sold .

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneButPaul View Post
    I don't disagree but this is a precursor to another 2008 event but considerably worse.

    The economic collapse started in 2008 the same way... just remember that this shale revolution was paid for by some bank or lender and when all of these projects start to go tits up because shale is not profitable under $70-80 Oil then a domino effect will begin on the lender's level that none of us will be able to escape.

    The economic $#@! storm is coming in 2015 and I hope you people have used the last 7 years to prepare for it.
    just because they are oil companies ( most have stock holders ) let them swim or sink like the rest of us do , i know many small farmers that went broke in the 80's , no one said lets keep the price of grains/meats high because these farmers owe the banks/lenders money , many of them lost their farms to the banks/lenders .

    sort of like the gold/silver miners that will go broke when gold goes $800/oz and it cost them $1200/oz to mine it , that's the way business in america works , go to a small farm town and see how many small businesses when broke because walmart came to town .

    a bank/lender will never go broke making sound loans .

  8. #7

  9. #8
    There are idiots everywhere. Many of them are in the lamestream print media.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ILUVRP View Post
    just because they are oil companies ( most have stock holders ) let them swim or sink like the rest of us do , i know many small farmers that went broke in the 80's , no one said lets keep the price of grains/meats high because these farmers owe the banks/lenders money , many of them lost their farms to the banks/lenders .

    sort of like the gold/silver miners that will go broke when gold goes $800/oz and it cost them $1200/oz to mine it , that's the way business in america works , go to a small farm town and see how many small businesses when broke because walmart came to town .

    a bank/lender will never go broke making sound loans .
    To be clear I do not support a rigging of prices but the point i'm trying to make here is 6 years of abhorrent price rigging by the FED through QE has led to horrible Mal-investment everywhere and in particular shale oil and they created a bubble artificially and now it's going to unwind as an entire "sector" was created out of bogus market manipulations - this is Austrian Econ 101. The boom phase led by low interest rates causes all sorts of dumb money to get thrown into half thought ideas and bubbles form.

    We saw the same thing with housing ten years ago. This is all the Keynesians know how to do and eventually all of their bubbles burst. It's not a coincidence that every time QE has ended the stock market has started to plunge, it's not a coincidence that after Yellen confirmed QE would be ending in October last June the price of oil started to tank.

    Once the Fed took away the punchbowl the price of oil starting to plummet and now it's down almost 50% from July.

    They should all obviously sink but let's not forget how the situation was created. When this bubble goes pop again every one of these thoughtlessly created companies will be lining up for a bailout and thanks to last week's legislation they'll get it.

    What a world... there's nothing left to do but try to withdraw in your own way.
    It's just an opinion... man...

  12. #10
    i think QE has had a much larger effect on the stock market than the price of crude , crude is down to $57/ba from about $105/ba , in my mind the stock mkt will go down about the same % when the dust clears , the recent drop of about 5% total is nothing but noise , when it drops 30-50% a lot of 401's/ira's will take a beating but now they could be putting their money into money market tools , its getting to be " its not how much you make just don't lose " .

    when crude hit $100/ba the US should have unloaded a lot of crude from our reserve , that alone would have driven oil to $80/ba , the gov could be buying it back at less than $60 now , but they are so deep in the pockets of big oil companies they really want to see high prices .

    i see people on CNBC just about crying because of the lower price of oil . i love it and i won't be happy until crude gets to $40/ba where it belongs .
    Last edited by ILUVRP; 12-14-2014 at 08:58 AM. Reason: sp

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ILUVRP View Post
    screw big oil , get it down to $40/ba where it belongs , big oil will find a way to make money .

    we have been subsidizing them for too long , even before opec we were giving big oil a depletion allowance for 50 yrs , let them find a way to survive like we do .

    i do not feel sorry for someone that has been robbing me for more than 70 years .
    Be careful what you wish for though, since a sustained $40/barrel means the other $60-$80 in exported petrodollar inflation (when oil was $100+/barrel) will no longer be needed around the world. Those dollars gotta go somewhere....and once it's globally agreed by TPTB that the petrodollar is no longer needed......well.......yeah.

    You could think of oil and the petrodollar as the post-9/11 'Enron', if this oil crash sticks for any sustained period of time. Of course much larger ramifications than Enron but if you understand what Enron was really about, it makes perfect sense.
    Last edited by devil21; 12-14-2014 at 06:33 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

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  14. #12
    Oh, the sky is falling the sky is falling, oil is cheap

    The last five years have been so good on Wall Street that everyone, and I mean nearly everyone, has ended up with an itchy sell-finger. We've all got PTSD from 2008 and it's showing.. People are nervous about all the gains amassed since 2009 (I know I am) and are just looking, desperately, for any excuse to run out the door with their hair on fire... I guess this is it..

    Not buying that the sky is falling because of cheap oil.

    Yes, there is an economic impact of oil related businesses, but in terms of the overall economy, and the GDP input of the myriad of businesses where oil is a cost center, and not a profit center, that impact is absolutely dwarfed by the massive economic benefits of cheap energy.

    Of course, highly leveraged drillers, and idiot hedge fund speculators actually do have a lot to worry about, but the big boys like PSX, COP, XOM, etc. are going to be just fine..

    But then again, enough idiots, moving desperately in one direction can make economic reality out of their economic imagination, at least temporarily (see 50+ dollar an ounce silver, 140 a barrel crude, late 90's dot.com stocks, etc...)

  15. #13
    Ep. 305 Is $2 Gas the Worst Thing to Happen to America?
    http://tomwoods.com/podcast/ep-305-i...en-to-america/
    Tom Woods (15 December 2014)

    Of course not. But it sure is fashionable to say so these days. Economist Bob Murphy joins us to overturn this fashionable view. Scroll down for the show notes and mp3!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOZJ6EOwBk0



    Article Discussed

    $2 Gas Is the Worst Thing to Happen to America,” by Mark Morford

    About the Guest

    Robert P. Murphy holds a Ph.D. in economics from New York University. He is the author of numerous books (see below), including study guides to Ludwig von Mises’ Human Action (study guide here) and The Theory of Money and Credit (study guide here), and Murray Rothbard’s Man, Economy, and State (study guide here).

    Links/Topics Mentioned

    On Oil and Gas Production Under Obama (see chart at that link)
    Will Fuel Economy Mandates Increase Car Company Profits? (in the second half of this article Bob reviews the issue of fuel-economy standards and auto fatalities)

    Guest’s Blog

    Free Advice

    Books by the Guest

    Lessons for the Young Economist (free textbook; click here for a free teacher’s manual)
    Chaos Theory (available free)
    Understanding Bitcoin (with Silas Barta; available free)
    The Politically Incorrect Guide to Capitalism (also available as an audiobook)
    The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Great Depression and the New Deal (also available as an audiobook

    Guest’s Twitter

    @BobMurphyEcon

    Guest’s Facebook

    Robert Murphy

    Episodes Mentioned

    Ep. 285: The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels (Alex Epstein)
    Ep. 32: The World’s Happiest Country? (Christian Bjørnskov)

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  16. #14
    And speaking of Bob Murphy:

    U.S. Government Policy and Oil Prices
    http://instituteforenergyresearch.or...nd-oil-prices/
    Bob Murphy (16 December 2014)

    As the price of oil continues to fall, it is worth pointing out the tremendous influence that U.S. production—and hence, U.S. government policy—has had on this trend. For decades, Americans have been beaten over the head with the mantra that we live in an energy-starved country [1], where the only hope for the future is to promote energy conservation and renewable sources. Yet the boom in shale production shows just how pessimistic such a view can be. Furthermore, there are still vast reservoirs of conventional energy lying trapped on federal land by government policy.

    Krugman Clueless on U.S. Energy

    To prove that I’m not attacking a straw man, consider the remarks of Nobel laureate Paul Krugman, writing in the New York Times four years ago:

    Oil is back above $90 a barrel. Copper and cotton have hit record highs. Wheat and corn prices are way up. Over all, world commodity prices have risen by a quarter in the past six months.

    So what’s the meaning of this surge?

    Is it speculation run amok? Is it the result of excessive money creation, a harbinger of runaway inflation just around the corner? No and no.

    What the commodity markets are telling us is that we’re living in a finite world, in which the rapid growth of emerging economies is placing pressure on limited supplies of raw materials, pushing up their prices. And America is, for the most part, just a bystander in this story. [Bold added.]

    In a previous post, I walked through the theory and evidence showing that—contrary to Krugman’s confident assertion above—the Federal Reserve did have something to do with rising oil prices, through its direct effect on commodity prices and indirectly by weakening the dollar.

    Focus on the Supply Side

    However, besides the role that the U.S. central bank has played in commodity prices, we must also look at the supply of oil. Here too, Krugman’s remarks quoted above are simply laughable. Look at the chart of U.S. production, where we’ve placed a red triangle when Krugman announced America was “just a bystander” in the story of high oil prices:



    U.S. field production of crude oil is up more than 50 percent since Krugman assured his readers in late 2010 that the U.S. could do nothing about rising global oil prices.

    One Possible Catalyst for Falling Oil Prices

    There are many factors going into the price of a globally traded commodity like crude oil. Previous IER articles have detailed the increase in U.S. production relative to global demand, and (to repeat) I have previously looked at the role of the Federal Reserve’s end of “quantitative easing” and how that could have driven the plunge in prices since the summer.

    However, I recently became aware of an article that financial analyst Tom Landstreet wrote for Forbes back in August. Landstreet was pointing to the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management’s announcement on July 18, 2014. In the words of the BOEM, it had issued a “Record of Decision (ROD)” that would set “a path forward for appropriate geological and geophysical (G&G) survey activities off the Mid- and South Atlantic coast to update 40-year old data on the region’s offshore resources.”

    Landstreet argued that this announcement (plus developments in Mexico) would put downward pressure on oil prices as speculators anticipated a loosening of policy in the future. This was only strengthened by the election results.

    In hindsight, the data certainly seem to bolster his theory. In the chart of oil prices below, I’ve placed an arrow marking the price of oil on the date of the BOEM announcement:



    Of course we can never know for sure what would have happened in the absence of the announcement, but it certainly seems prima facie that it sparked the massive slide this year.

    Conclusion

    Many people are wondering whether U.S. production can keep up the pace if crude prices fall below the “breakeven point” of several major shale operations. However, the only reason American firms are so heavily tapping into higher-cost extraction sites is that the federal government is keeping some of the most lucrative land off-limits to exploration, let alone drilling. Even if world crude prices continue to fall, the United States could maintain its enhanced level of oil output, if only the government would get out of the way.

    Notes:

    [1] As recently as 2012, President Obama said, “As a country that has 2 percent of the world’s oil reserves, but uses 20 percent of the world’s oil — I’m going to repeat that — we’ve got 2 percent of the world oil reserves; we use 20 percent. What that means is, as much as we’re doing to increase oil production, we’re not going to be able to just drill our way out of the problem of high gas prices. Anybody who tells you otherwise either doesn’t know what they’re talking about or they aren’t telling you the truth” (bold added). Speech in North Carolina, March 7, 2012.

  17. #15
    Deflationary depression. It looks like helicopter Ben's remedy just postponed the inevitable.

    There will be no recovery without jobs and increasing wages to drive the economy.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Deflationary depression. It looks like helicopter Ben's remedy just postponed the inevitable.

    There will be no recovery without jobs and increasing wages to drive the economy.
    I don't see how printing money leads to deflation. I think you are making the mistake of lumping QE and artificially low rates together. Low rates can temporarily increase the money supply but then the money supply crashes along with prices. QE is a permanent increase in the money supply so unless you actually unwind the QE you're not going to reduce the money supply. For that reason I'm not expecting huge drops in asset prices, I think the drop in oil is only temporary. I'm not sure how this disaster is going to unfold except in the end we're going to get runaway rising prices.



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  20. #17
    The media started pushing this pro-high-oil-prices propaganda back in October.

    From another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Several weeks ago, when oil prices started to drop a bit, one of the corporatist shills employed over at CNBC reacted in dismay. "What will happen to the oil companies? Will the energy sector drop? They employ a lot of people, dropping oil prices could destroy the economy."

    Of course they conveniently forget about the burden of increased energy costs on pretty much every other area of the economy.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I don't see how printing money leads to deflation. I think you are making the mistake of lumping QE and artificially low rates together. Low rates can temporarily increase the money supply but then the money supply crashes along with prices. QE is a permanent increase in the money supply so unless you actually unwind the QE you're not going to reduce the money supply. For that reason I'm not expecting huge drops in asset prices, I think the drop in oil is only temporary. I'm not sure how this disaster is going to unfold except in the end we're going to get runaway rising prices.
    (FYI, I am not talking solely about monetary inflation or deflation.)

    It's not that printing money leads to deflation, it's that printing money has not been effective at helping the economy grow. It hasn't worked. We were falling naturally into a deflationary depression, i.e. we had to "liquidate debt and malinvestment". It hasn't been allowed to happen, so we have no real recovery.
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 12-16-2014 at 02:43 PM.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    (FYI, I am not talking solely about monetary inflation or deflation.)

    It's not that printing money leads to deflation, it's that printing money has not been effective at helping the economy grow. It hasn't worked. We were falling naturally into a deflationary depression, i.e. we had to "liquidate debt and malinvestment". It hasn't been allowed to happen, so we have no real recovery.
    Maybe we could see a few asset prices falling (stocks, real estate) but most prices rising (like food and energy). That would make more sense to me than the dollar actually gaining purchasing power from printing. But I totally agree that we're going to see a depression, although it might not be officially recognized by the GDP.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Maybe we could see a few asset prices falling (stocks, real estate) but most prices rising (like food and energy). That would make more sense to me than the dollar actually gaining purchasing power from printing. But I totally agree that we're going to see a depression, although it might not be officially recognized by the GDP.
    If price inflation was due in part or in it's entirety to increased energy prices over the past several years, then it's possible for prices to fall in a lot of areas. Maybe they will start making food containers bigger again...
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    If price inflation was due in part or in it's entirety to increased energy prices over the past several years, then it's possible for prices to fall in a lot of areas. Maybe they will start making food containers bigger again...
    That would be the first time in history that a large amount of fiat currency printing led to falling prices.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    That would be the first time in history that a large amount of fiat currency printing led to falling prices.
    It's not the printing money that leads to price deflation. It's the collapse of the malinvestment.

    Helicopter Ben and friends believe that printing enough money would inflate them out of that necessary correction, and it has not worked. His helicopter hovered over Wall St., and that money barely made it into the larger economy. Ben could print money all day long, but if he gives it all to Jamie Dimon, who stores it in his basement vault, it won't have any effect.
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 12-16-2014 at 09:49 PM.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  26. #23
    USA Today: You Need a Hole in Your Head

    Oh, please, mommy government, raise our gas taxes! We promise we'll be happy about it even when you decide to stop punishing Russia and gas goes back up to four bucks! We won't even make you repeal the newest addition to the gas tax then, we promise! Besides, GEmsNBC promised they'd never go up again ever anyway, so who cares?

    Pleasepleasepleasepleaseohplease bend us over some more! USA Today told us we want it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  27. #24
    Only people who need high energy prices are those selling energy or those collecting taxes from it . Done .Lets move along to something more interesting .



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    It's not the printing money that leads to price deflation. It's the collapse of the malinvestment.

    Helicopter Ben and friends believe that printing enough money would inflate them out of that necessary correction, and it has not worked. His helicopter hovered over Wall St., and that money barely made it into the larger economy. Ben could print money all day long, but if he gives it all to Jamie Dimon, who stores it in his basement vault, it won't have any effect.
    Nobody stores money forever.

    Printing money is BY FAR the primary cause of price inflation over the long haul. It's not debatable. We've printed a ton of money therefore prices will rise a ton eventually to match the printing. There might be short term dips in certain sectors but in the long run all prices will rise.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by ILUVRP View Post
    screw big oil , get it down to $40/ba where it belongs , big oil will find a way to make money .

    we have been subsidizing them for too long , even before opec we were giving big oil a depletion allowance for 50 yrs , let them find a way to survive like we do .

    i do not feel sorry for someone that has been robbing me for more than 70 years .
    Robbing you? No one is making you use it.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Robbing you? No one is making you use it.
    i guess people that have stocks in big oil or gold because high energy prices causes inflation have a dog in the fight .

  32. #28
    This morning on CNBC, they were discussing what the Federal Reserve can do to fight deflation. They followed it up with a story about dropping cattle prices.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    This morning on CNBC, they were discussing what the Federal Reserve can do to fight deflation. They followed it up with a story about dropping cattle prices.
    I like how they make it sound like it's so difficult to fight deflation. Just announce QE4. Problem solved!

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by ILUVRP View Post
    i guess people that have stocks in big oil or gold because high energy prices causes inflation have a dog in the fight .
    lol. Nice try. You would have been better off in making an argument for getting rid of all government subsidies. Oh, and "big oil" nor "gold" cause inflation.

    So, when will you stop using oil? Today or tomorrow?
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

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