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Thread: NYT article by Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

  1. #1

    NYT article by Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/op...anted=all&_r=0

    A Plea for Caution From Russia

    What Putin Has to Say to Americans About Syria

    MOSCOW — RECENT events surrounding Syria have prompted me to speak directly to the American people and their political leaders. It is important to do so at a time of insufficient communication between our societies.

    Relations between us have passed through different stages. We stood against each other during the cold war. But we were also allies once, and defeated the Nazis together. The universal international organization — the United Nations — was then established to prevent such devastation from ever happening again.
    The United Nations’ founders understood that decisions affecting war and peace should happen only by consensus, and with America’s consent the veto by Security Council permanent members was enshrined in the United Nations Charter. The profound wisdom of this has underpinned the stability of international relations for decades.
    No one wants the United Nations to suffer the fate of the League of Nations, which collapsed because it lacked real leverage. This is possible if influential countries bypass the United Nations and take military action without Security Council authorization.
    The potential strike by the United States against Syria, despite strong opposition from many countries and major political and religious leaders, including the pope, will result in more innocent victims and escalation, potentially spreading the conflict far beyond Syria’s borders. A strike would increase violence and unleash a new wave of terrorism. It could undermine multilateral efforts to resolve the Iranian nuclear problem and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and further destabilize the Middle East and North Africa. It could throw the entire system of international law and order out of balance.
    Syria is not witnessing a battle for democracy, but an armed conflict between government and opposition in a multireligious country. There are few champions of democracy in Syria. But there are more than enough Qaeda fighters and extremists of all stripes battling the government. The United States State Department has designated Al Nusra Front and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, fighting with the opposition, as terrorist organizations. This internal conflict, fueled by foreign weapons supplied to the opposition, is one of the bloodiest in the world.

    Mercenaries from Arab countries fighting there, and hundreds of militants from Western countries and even Russia, are an issue of our deep concern. Might they not return to our countries with experience acquired in Syria? After all, after fighting in Libya, extremists moved on to Mali. This threatens us all.
    From the outset, Russia has advocated peaceful dialogue enabling Syrians to develop a compromise plan for their own future. We are not protecting the Syrian government, but international law. We need to use the United Nations Security Council and believe that preserving law and order in today’s complex and turbulent world is one of the few ways to keep international relations from sliding into chaos. The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not. Under current international law, force is permitted only in self-defense or by the decision of the Security Council. Anything else is unacceptable under the United Nations Charter and would constitute an act of aggression.

    No one doubts that poison gas was used in Syria. But there is every reason to believe it was used not by the Syrian Army, but by opposition forces, to provoke intervention by their powerful foreign patrons, who would be siding with the fundamentalists. Reports that militants are preparing another attack — this time against Israel — cannot be ignored........

    more at link above....

    He speaks a lot of truth, but his notion of the UN is hogwash. Dang globalist perspective.
    "Sorry, fellows, the rebellion is off. We couldn't get a rebellion permit."



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  3. #2
    I'm not in total disagreement with the idea that when most of the world is against what you are talking about doing, including your own people, that you might want to take a step back or suffer the fate of Nazi Germany (actually not a really good reference to use but it suffices for the purpose of saying "you could end up getting your big powerful ass kicked").
    Last edited by ClydeCoulter; 09-11-2013 at 09:01 PM.
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  4. #3
    hmm... another false flag?

    Reports that militants are preparing another attack — this time against Israel — cannot be ignored.
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain

    "Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself."
    - Mark Twain

    "I'm Ron Paul, I'm a Congressman from Texas serving in my tenth term, I am the champion of the Constitution." 05/03/07 - revolution restarts

  5. #4
    I was also wowed by the last part...

    I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain

    "Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself."
    - Mark Twain

    "I'm Ron Paul, I'm a Congressman from Texas serving in my tenth term, I am the champion of the Constitution." 05/03/07 - revolution restarts

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by purplechoe View Post
    I was also wowed by the last part...

    It is very strange when Russia Today/Putin are the only source of sanity anymore.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by purplechoe View Post
    I was also wowed by the last part...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States

    He sounds a lot like Ron, saying the US is pushing countries to get the bomb because the US is acting as an unrestrained aggressor.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
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  8. #7
    I have a crazy theory. To preface, I think Obama is evil and I never give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe I'm playing devil's advocate in my own head...well here it is:

    What if the question to Kerry was planted and Kerry's ultimatum was planned in advance? There are reports that Obama and Putin discussed this idea at the G-20 Summit in Mexico and that Obama was warm to the idea. Reports have been that he's against invading Syria lest they use chemical weapons. Obama is trying to say the international community set the red line...well maybe that's code for "my globalist handlers" made me set the red line.

    Why do this? Maybe he really doesn't want to invade. He made an unprecedented move to go to Congress knowing full well he would be voted down (see Libya). Perhaps he's been playing a balancing act with TPTB and not invading, and Congress/Kerry was his escape plan.

    We'll find out soon.

    I think my optimistic side is getting the better of me. I'll wrangle him back to where he belongs in short order.
    Founder and leader of the militant wing of the Salvation Army.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexAmore View Post
    I have a crazy theory. To preface, I think Obama is evil and I never give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe I'm playing devil's advocate in my own head...well here it is:

    What if the question to Kerry was planted and Kerry's ultimatum was planned in advance? There are reports that Obama and Putin discussed this idea at the G-20 Summit in Mexico and that Obama was warm to the idea. Reports have been that he's against invading Syria lest they use chemical weapons. Obama is trying to say the international community set the red line...well maybe that's code for "my globalist handlers" made me set the red line.

    Why do this? Maybe he really doesn't want to invade. He made an unprecedented move to go to Congress knowing full well he would be voted down (see Libya). Perhaps he's been playing a balancing act with TPTB and not invading, and Congress/Kerry was his escape plan.

    We'll find out soon.

    I think my optimistic side is getting the better of me. I'll wrangle him back to where he belongs in short order.
    I do think it's possible that whomever is president literally has a gun to their head pointed at them by the powers that be.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by fr33 View Post
    I do think it's possible that whomever is president literally has a gun to their head pointed at them by the powers that be.
    Or at their childrens heads.

    There are plenty of things in this life that might make one rethink their campaign promises.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't a thing
    Prostitution is legal
    We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  12. #10
    It's always the Smoking Man...always.
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  13. #11
    Ol' Vlad Putin is making sane-n-sensible press releases..

    Our governments mask is slipping, could be dangerous...

    [edit]

    The Communist Newz Netwerk has her panties in a bunch...

    Vladimir Putin's comments on American exceptionalism, Syria cause a fuss

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/12/politi...html?hpt=hp_t1

    [snip]
    Democratic Senator Robert Menendez said the piece made him almost want to throw up.
    [snip
    Last edited by tod evans; 09-12-2013 at 03:14 AM.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by purplechoe View Post
    I was also wowed by the last part...
    I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.
    I'd wager putin knows that the term "american exceptionalism" was coined by a communist.

    edit: and I still say putin is trolling Obama and having a grand old time doing it.
    Last edited by specsaregood; 09-12-2013 at 04:32 AM.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I'd wager putin knows that the term "american exceptionalism" was coined by a communist.

    edit: and I still say putin is trolling Obama and having a grand old time doing it.
    Without a doubt.
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    ― Ron Paul

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by liberalnurse View Post
    Without a doubt.
    CNN Obama's/Clinton network is quite pissed about it.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I'd wager putin knows that the term "american exceptionalism" was coined by a communist.

    edit: and I still say putin is trolling Obama and having a grand old time doing it.
    I'd do the same.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  18. #16
    Trolling or not, I respect Putin and Assad way more than half the jacks in our own govt, most notably our own pos lying bastard president.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Putin
    It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.”
    If Obama, the US and Putin was removed from the subject I think most people would agree with this quote. The discussion would likely lead to the rise of Adolf Hitler in his promotion of German or Aryan exceptionalism.

    How can people be so blind. The outrage is is sickening.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    If Obama, the US and Putin was removed from the subject I think most people would agree with this quote. The discussion would likely lead to the rise of Adolf Hitler in his promotion of German or Aryan exceptionalism.

    How can people be so blind. The outrage is is sickening.
    Huh?

    Whatchu talkin' 'bout Willis?

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Huh?

    Whatchu talkin' 'bout Willis?
    I think he means to say that it's good advice if taken at face value, regardless of which side you're on. But you throw in names like Obama, Putin, the U.S. or Russia, and suddenly it becomes 'us versus them' and the message is lost.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    The discussion would likely lead to the rise of Adolf Hitler in his promotion of German or Aryan exceptionalism.
    If that did not make sense I should have added, "to call out those that disagree with it" at the end of that sentence.

    How is Obama promoting American exceptionalism any different from Hitler promoting German and Aryan exceptionalism. Most people are outraged when any figure promotes one group over another. Some how people are blind to it when it comes to promoting "American exceptionalism".

  24. #21
    Bush & Obama have recently played on the theme that America is better than the rest of the World.

    You need to have that general belief if you are conquering the World via military, in the name of "fighting terrorism" "explanding democracy" etc.

    Got to give Putin credit for putting that out there.

  25. #22
    American exceptionalism was originally about the people being exceptional - exceptionally moral, exceptionally inventive, and exceptionally free.

    Obama thinks the exceptionalism applies to government - full stop.

    Truth is there is no exception for us. We are as subject to historical forces as anyone else, and we are feeling their effects.

  26. #23
    I don't trust Pootin any more than the other "world leaders".

    Last edited by EBounding; 09-12-2013 at 12:22 PM.
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  27. #24
    I agree with Putin. We can't be a country that says everyone is created equal then in the same breath say that we as Americans are better than the rest of the world.



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  29. #25
    There are many more countries whose citizens are less tolerant of government corruption than we are. They're the exceptional ones, IMO. Boobus Americanus tends to play silly birds on iPhone 8 while stuffing his face with 2,000 calorie burgers, while somewhere in the world people lead armed rebellions over police brutality. I think as a whole, Americans lost the title for defenders of liberty long ago.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 09-12-2013 at 01:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  30. #26
    The Ruling Class is insulted. They should be ashamed, since they're the ones who are actively destroying what made America exceptional; individual liberty and free enterprise. America is not exceptional any longer. It's just another dying Empire.

    John Boehner On Putin Op-ed: 'I Was Insulted'
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3914708.html
    WASHINGTON -- House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) didn't appreciate the advice offered in a New York Times op-ed by Russian President Vladimir Putin.

    "I was insulted," Boehner told reporters Thursday when asked for his "blunt" reaction to the commentary, in which the Russian leader counseled President Barack Obama to back off bellicose talk about Syria.

    Putin also argued that Obama and Americans generally should stop calling their country "exceptional."
    [...]
    Asked to elaborate on his reaction, Boehner declined.

    "I think that the president does foreign policy, and I've always believed by way of opinions I've probably already said more than I should have said, but you got the truth," Boehner said.
    What? Is he drunk? I don't even know what any of that's supposed to mean.
    Another politician who backs a strike was even blunter than Boehner in his reaction to the Russian leader. "I almost wanted to vomit," Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.) said on CNN.

    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), asked about Putin's op-ed shortly after Boehner's comments, told reporters he didn't think it was aimed at exploiting the way Obama has handled the Syria situation.

    "I think he's just looking for a chance to show off his Super Bowl ring," joked Reid, referring to accusations that Putin stole a Super Bowl ring from New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by purplechoe View Post
    I was also wowed by the last part...
    good stuff right there!

  32. #28
    The US' terrorist allies dig chemical weapons, and probably want them available for when they take over.

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/...-peace-voices/

    It is amusing to read the reactions of the pro-war contingent now that Syria has promised concessions on its chemicals. McCain, who thankfully is not president or we’d already be in a war with Iran, first expressed skepticism over Syria’s promises, suggesting they were a delaying tactic. Today he sees Putin’s editorial as an “insult”. We know where McCain stands and what his pathology is.

    Then there’s Menendez, the uber-hawk from New Jersey (he’s a senator). His reaction to Putin’s editorial was chauvinistic: “I almost wanted to vomit. I worry when someone who came up through the KGB tells us what is in our national interests, and what is not. It really raises the question of how serious the Russian proposal is.” Any excuse for moving toward war will serve, including Putin’s life in the KGB.

    Fox News, reliably hawkish, hired a sympatico voice named Chris Stirewalt, and so he naturally has this slant. Putin, he says, has taken a double slap at Obama. And he too wants Americans to see Putin’s remarks as a Cold War KGB maneuver making suckers out of all peace activists: “But Putin was doing exactly what his bosses at the KGB showed him back in the day, especially when it comes to Democrats: tug at the pacifistic heartstrings of the left when trying to hamstring an American adversary at the negotiating table.”

    We cannot even take a baby step toward peace without these neocon warmongers trying to shove us back into the “Fight the dirty un-American commie bastards” mode of thinking. What a bunch of chauvinists (jingoists, nationalists) these guys are.

    The most amazing of all reactions comes from the Syrian rebel coalition. Assuming the translation of their position is accurate, they “announce our definitive rejection of the Russian initiative to place chemical weapons under international custody.” I find this amusing. The group that Kerry-Obama supports with arms and military training, the group that Obama-Kerry were willing to bomb for in the name of curtailing chemicals in warfare, that group rejects a huge Syrian government concession to give up its chemicals and sign an accord too against their use. This group, supported in the name of democracy and good government and against the name of Assad, has NO principled stand against chemicals in warfare. Obviously, its rejection shows that it wanted the bombing in order to weaken the government’s force structure.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  33. #29
    Do the malignant Narcissists in Washington have any idea how unbelievably stupid they sound?

    White House Proclaims "Exceptional" Obama Deserves Credit For Any Syrian Deal
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...ny-syrian-deal

    It will likely come as no surprise but the political one-up-manship continues as the Obama White House try to rescue themselves from a face-melting Putin Op-Ed... As Politico reports, WH press secretary Jay Carney stated: “If we were to see a situation unfold where Assad were to give up his chemical weapons to international supervision that would be an enormous accomplishment ... would be due to the decisions made by the Russian leadership but also the decisions made by the United States, by the president, to take the approach he has taken in response to the horrifying use of chemical weapons on his own people." Feeling the need to make one more jab at the Russians, Carney added, "The United States, in part because it is an exceptional nation, is called upon the lead in situations like this." Indeed, that's what it felt like eh? Under control the whole time...
    [...]
    Naturally, should the military standoff re-escalate, and lead to all out war, dragging in Japan, Europe, the middle east, and China, we doubt Obama will be quite as enthused in taking credit for starting World War III...
    About that last part:

    Kerry rejects Assad's offer
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-Assad-s-offer

    Because, "It's the economy, stupid!"

    Is War Now "Inevitable"
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...now-inevitable
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  34. #30
    Putin certainly isn't opposing it for the right reasons. Trust me, if it was in his interest to bomb the $#@! out of Syria, he'd be all for it. However, taking the article at face value and disregarding how hypocritical it is coming from Putin, it makes a lot of sense. At this point, anything that helps avoid conflict is appreciated.

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