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Thread: WV passes Constitutional Carry 99-0-1

  1. #1

    WV passes Constitutional Carry 99-0-1

    WV legislature passed a Constitutional Carry bill, making it the fifth state to do so.

    Not yet sure of Governor Tomblin will sign or veto, but it appears there are more than enough votes to override.

    They also passed SB284, requiring all CLEOs to sign off on approved NFA transactions. The Kanawha County Sheriff, whose name escapes me at present, refuses to sign NFA transfers. This bill is going to stick in that bastard's craw like a briar. Good - I hope it kills the worthless son of a bitch.

    I will not yet call this a trend, but we can hope that it is.
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    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

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  3. #2
    http://www.guns.com/2015/03/13/west-...s-to-governor/

    West Virginia sends shall-sign, constitutional carry bills to governor

    3/13/15 | by Chris Eger 26 473

    Two bills to expand gun rights are now headed to the desk of West Virginia Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin (D) (Photo: AP /Steve Helber)

    Lawmakers in West Virginia are delivering to Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin legislation that will expand access to National Firearms Act-controlled items and grant concealed carry without a permit.
    The two measures have tracked through the state legislature by wide margins with the shall-sign measure unanimously approved in both chambers while the proposal to allow permitless concealed carry passed Thursday 79-21 in the state House after the Senate polled 32-2 for it last week.
    “We’re here to protect our people from big government,” said Delegate Michael Ihle, R-Jackson, of the carry bill before yesterday’s vote. “This is a step in the right direction. It’s not perfect, but it gets us much closer on the 2nd Amendment to doing what’s right.”
    The legislation, SB 347, would repeal language in the current state code that makes it illegal to carry a concealed handgun without a permit. As long as the individual is legally able to possess a firearm under state and federal laws, they may carry a concealed pistol or revolver for self-defense purposes. This would include carrying while hiking or hunting, or while traveling in a motor vehicle, or in public. However, with or without a permit, carry would still be prohibited on certain public properties such as the state Capitol, courthouses, public schools and colleges.
    Currently, the practice outlined in the bill, commonly known as constitutional carry, is the law of the land in Vermont, Arizona, Alaska and Wyoming.
    The proposal was panned by the West Virginia Sheriff’s Association, U.S. Sen. Joe Manchin (D), a number of currently sitting mayors in the state, as well as national gun control groups who argued the $100 fee, training and vetting requirements now in place are there for a reason.
    “The current license requirements in West Virginia include things like undergoing basic training on how to handle and fire a gun, passing a criminal background check, and other reasonable safeguards,” Dee Price Childress, with the West Virginia chapter of Moms Demand Action, said in a statement. “If a person wants to carry a loaded, concealed handgun in public they should be required to demonstrate they have a clean criminal record and have been trained to carry a gun safely.”
    Constitutional carry bills have been a popular item nationwide with state legislatures this session. Texas, New Hampshire, Utah and Kansas have all made progress on measures to allow the practice.
    Curiously, however, similar bills have tanked in Tennessee and Mississippi, two deep-red states with outspoken local gun rights groups.
    NFA reform


    Title II devices such as suppressors and short-barreled rifles are at the heart of the shall-sign legislation that passed without dissent through the WV legislature (Photo: AAC)

    The second and more popular measure headed to the governor, SB 284, which did not see a single vote cast against it in either chamber, ensures that those who pass a background check can have the ability to purchase and own Title II devices such as suppressors and full-auto firearms.

    In order to legally own one of these without going through a trust, a local chief law enforcement officer must sign an individual’s application before completing the transfer. In most states, the CLEO, usually the local police chief or county sheriff, can technically approve or deny for arbitrary reasons, as it’s up to his or her own discretion.
    The West Virginia measure requires a CLEO to sign off on the paperwork within 30 days providing the applicant pass a background check.

    Gun rights advocates explain that the CLEO process harkens back to another era.
    “When the National Firearms Act of 1934 was signed into law, computerized background checks did not exist,” explained Knox Williams, president of the American Suppressor Association to Guns.com. “At that time, the CLEO signoff was the only means by which individuals applying for a transfer of an NFA item could be vetted. Since 1934, technology has come full circle, but the now antiquated CLEO signoff requirement has remained.”
    Last year, at least four states passed shall sign or shall certify legislation to help modernize the long-held practice.
    Both bills are now headed to Tomblin for consideration. Although a Democrat, Tomblin has a long history of signing pro-gun legislation and has in the past earned the endorsement of the National Rifle Association.



    HUGE WIN FOR GUN RIGHTS WV!!!
    Last edited by presence; 03-14-2015 at 12:59 PM.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  4. #3
    Good to hear. I hope it keeps spreading.

  5. #4
    bump for good news...

    5 is better than 4, I guess.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  6. #5
    Great news.

    The only way we'll save the rest of our rights is to do what the gun rights people have done.

  7. #6
    SB 347 (Constitutional Carry) passed the State House 71-29. It passed the State Senate 32-2. There were shenanigans along the way as legislators tried to kill it by amending it multiple times in the process.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  8. #7
    Does that mean that it is now legal to carry a copy of the Constitution with you?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Does that mean that it is now legal to carry a copy of the Constitution with you?
    It is as long as you don't use it.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.



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  11. #9
    bump for constitutional carry!

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  12. #10
    This is good news. Shows that some people are waking up...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

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    Use an internet archive site like
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    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    This is good news. Shows that some people are waking up...
    No, it has nothing to do with that.

    It has to do with the fact the NAGR mobilized a ton of pro-gun people to apply direct and strategic pressure on to the legislators in order to pass the bill.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  14. #12
    More special interests buying up Congress then. But that's OK if they support my interests.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-15-2015 at 09:34 PM.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    More special interests buying up Congress then.
    .
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    More special interests buying up Congress then.
    I don't see anybody benefiting from this with a grant, a factory, or health care (you are for Obamacare, right?).

    People are just advocating for a liberty right, not a claim right. If they are actually "buying" this right, then it shows an even sadder state of affairs.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    But that's OK if they support my interests.
    These interests are liberty rights, such as the right to protect oneself. The rights you like are claim rights, such as universal health care.

    The difference is people who want to be left alone versus people who demand something from someone else.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  18. #16
    Bloomberg's groups are running a ton of ads in WV over this.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Bloomberg's groups are running a ton of ads in WV over this.
    And let me guess, despite the hundreds of millions of dollars they raise, the NRA is AWOL again?
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    These interests are liberty rights, such as the right to protect oneself. The rights you like are claim rights, such as universal health care.

    The difference is people who want to be left alone versus people who demand something from someone else.
    Need to be careful with terminology. A "claim" and "right" are synonymous. What I think you may be getting at is the difference between a fundamental right (claim) and a contractual right (claim).
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    No, it has nothing to do with that.

    It has to do with the fact the NAGR mobilized a ton of pro-gun people to apply direct and strategic pressure on to the legislators in order to pass the bill.
    Thanks for explaining how there was so much support in the legislature.

    The other reason I know for the strong support is because the bill increases gun control. It makes Constitutional Carry not apply until you are 21. That is an amendment from the unconstitutional 18 year old requirement. The US Constitution is clear that a child is able to carry concealed without a permit.

    Does anyone else have an idea why licenseless concealed carry had so much support in the legislature in WV? There are a bunch of states where folks could use this information to help work for better gun laws.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    And let me guess, despite the hundreds of millions of dollars they raise, the NRA is AWOL again?
    Actually believe it or not the NRA has been pushing this issue in WV. I'm surprised by it.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    Thanks for explaining how there was so much support in the legislature.

    The other reason I know for the strong support is because the bill increases gun control. It makes Constitutional Carry not apply until you are 21. That is an amendment from the unconstitutional 18 year old requirement. The US Constitution is clear that a child is able to carry concealed without a permit.

    Does anyone else have an idea why licenseless concealed carry had so much support in the legislature in WV? There are a bunch of states where folks could use this information to help work for better gun laws.
    Nice spin. Of course, you probably wouldn't be saying the same thing if this was a New Hampshire bill...
    Although there should be no restrictions whatsoever on firearm ownership and carry, saying it has support because it "increases gun control" Is epic trolling.
    Last edited by William Tell; 03-16-2015 at 09:58 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    The other reason I know for the strong support is because the bill increases gun control. It makes Constitutional Carry not apply until you are 21. That is an amendment from the unconstitutional 18 year old requirement. The US Constitution is clear that a child is able to carry concealed without a permit.
    Yes that amendment was added by Chairman John Shott and voted on in the House Judiciary Committee. It was then approved on the floor of the House. There is a roll call vote available so everyone can see who voted to increase the age restriction to 21.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    Does anyone else have an idea why licenseless concealed carry had so much support in the legislature in WV? There are a bunch of states where folks could use this information to help work for better gun laws.
    There is a liberty caucus in the legislature who has been actively pushing this. 4 or 5 legislators who are hardcore dedicated to the cause of liberty. That helps to have a few on the inside. But the main reason is the outside pressure that is happening from West Virginia Gun Rights that is getting voters to contact their legislator and urge support of the bill. Legislators are getting hundreds if not thousands of calls and e-mails in support of this.

    Politicians will do whatever they need to do in order to keep their job. That is what makes the difference.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Nice spin. Of course, you probably wouldn't be saying the same thing if this was a New Hampshire bill...
    Although there should be no restrictions whatsoever on firearm ownership and carry, saying it has support because it "increases gun control" Is epic trolling.
    We had a CC bill in NH in 2012. The NRA demanded that it require 18 to carry a firearm. The liberty folks said absolutely not. There has never been a legal age for carry in NH and we will not comprise. The NRA connected Reps. refused to continue with the NH tradition of no age due to pressure from the NRA. The bill was killed by the senate because of liberty folks demanding they kill the bill.

    This year, the NRA was told to shut up and so far the house and senate leadership have agreed. A CC bill passed the senate with no age limit. The house retained the exact same bill, but with a different bill number, as a tactical to use against the governor in case she vetoes the senate bill. The liberty position in NH is that no age limit and no CC is better than CC and an 18 (or especially 21) age for carry. The problem is that there aren't enough votes to override a veto now, like there were in 2012. Liberty is hard

    I am glad that the gun folks in WV are making the progress they want to make.
    Last edited by Keith and stuff; 03-16-2015 at 10:14 AM.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    There is a liberty caucus in the legislature who has been actively pushing this. 4 or 5 legislators who are hardcore dedicated to the cause of liberty. That helps to have a few on the inside. But the main reason is the outside pressure that is happening from West Virginia Gun Rights that is getting voters to contact their legislator and urge support of the bill. Legislators are getting hundreds if not thousands of calls and e-mails in support of this.

    Politicians will do whatever they need to do in order to keep their job. That is what makes the difference.
    Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate the explanation.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.



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  29. #25
    Oh, I should also point out that the local group (West Virginia Citizens Defense League) and the NRA both sold out and agreed to the 21 year old restriction in a compromise with the Sheriff's Association.
    Last edited by Matt Collins; 03-16-2015 at 10:40 AM.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  30. #26
    I found a possible additional reason why the bill had so much support.

    Anyway, it looks like there are enough votes for an override. That's good news The governor's reasoning is not good

    W.Va. Governor Vetoes SB347, Cites Law Enforcement Safety Concerns
    WHAG News
    03/20/2015 10:42 AM
    03/20/2015 10:45 AM

    CHARLESTON, W.Va. – Governor Earl Ray Tomblin has vetoed Senate Bill 347. The bill would have given people the right to conceal-carry a firearm without a permit.

    In a press release from the Governor’s Office, Governor Tomblin explained his reason for vetoing the bill.

    "Throughout my career, I have strongly supported the Second Amendment, as demonstrated by my repeated endorsements and high grades from the National Rifle Association. However, I must also be responsive to the apprehension of law enforcement officers from across the state, who have concerns about the bill as it relates to the safety of their fellow officers. It also would eliminate the required gun safety training courses for those applying for a concealed carry permit. In light of these concerns and in the interest of public safety for all West Virginians, I have vetoed Senate Bill 347."

    The controversial bill cleared all legislative hurdles after the Senate approved House amendments last week.

    Several of the amendments included raising the concealed carrying age without a permit to 21, and harsher punishments for gun crimes.

    Legal gun owners in West Virginia already have the right to open carry with a permit.
    http://www.your4state.com/story/d/st...wEiWZ3aKAZfMjw
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  31. #27
    However, I must also be responsive to the apprehension of law enforcement officers from across the state, who have concerns about the bill as it relates to the safety of their fellow officers.
    Heh.



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