Will the Wars Ever, Ever End?

[helmuth_hubener]

Thanks, Sainsbury.

[Ronin Truth]

Sure, at right about the time of human extinction or the end of governments; whichever comes first..

[willwash]

When we run out of money. When we've been squeezed completely dry and there's nothing left. Then the barbarians will sack us, ensuing a 500 year dark age followed by a Renaissance of liberty and the ascendancy of a deserving people. We just won't be around to see it.

[Acala]

Thanks for this. Brought tears to my eyes.

The wars will end when individual human beings master their own unconscious emotional drives.

[jmdrake]

Wow! Thank you for sharing! I wish more people knew about the "Christmas truce" of 1914. Had this spread and the soldiers on both sides rejected their politicians the world really would have become "safe for democracy" and that would have been a "war to end all wars". Instead the Germans were demonized and humiliated in the Treaty of Versailles setting the stage for World War II which set the state for the Cold War which set the stage for the Global War on Terror which is setting the stage for Armageddon.

Note the hymn they play after "Silent Night" is "What a fellowship...what a joy divine...leaning on the everlasting arms."

[Ronin Truth]

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.pdf

[acptulsa]

"People talk peace, but men give their life's work to war. It won't stop 'til there is as much brains and scientific study put to aid peace as there is to promote war."--Will Rogers 1929

Will Rogers also said that if you take diplomacy out of war, the thing will fall flat in a week. I say the same will happen if you can find a way to take the profits out of war...

[Lucille]

Very moving. Of course, you can't please everyone.

"Christmas Truce" supermarket ad causes kerfuffle in UK
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...erfuffle-in-UK

[staerker]

"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."

[Indy Vidual]

Great, Happy Holidays.

[Occam's Banana]

Will the Wars Ever, Ever End?

From "War Making and Class Conflict": http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Class-Conflict

Thus, a permanent state of war or preparedness for war is optimal from the point of view of the ruling elite, especially one that controls a large and powerful state. Take the current US government as an example. It rules over a relatively populous, wealthy, and progressive economy from which it can extract ever larger boodles of loot without destroying the productive class. Nevertheless, it is subject to the real and abiding fear that sooner or later productive Americans will come to recognize the continually increasing burden of taxation, inflation, and regulation for what it really is — naked exploitation. So the US government, the most powerful mega-state in history, is driven by the very logic of the political relationship to pursue a policy of permanent war.

From "The War to Make the World Safe for Democracy" to "The War to End All Wars" to "The Cold War" and on to the current "War on Terror," the wars fought by US rulers in the twentieth century have progressed from episodic wars restricted to well-defined theaters and enemies to a war without spatial or temporal bounds against an incorporeal enemy named "Terror." A more appropriate name for this neoconservative-contrived war would involve a simple change in the preposition to a "War of Terror" — because the American state is terrified of productive, work-a-day Americans, who may someday awaken and put an end to its massive predations on their lives and property and maybe to the American ruling class itself.

[JK/SEA]

starting, or stopping wars is in our DNA...

i'm not seeing any relief from the mindset in the near future...

yay...more war...

afterall, as we alll know, war is a jobs program...

[heavenlyboy34]

That was a beautiful piece! I always liked the legends of that truce. A great illustration of how the regular people don't want war, and generally get along well when left alone (rational self-interest) -it is the State that thrives on warfare. :P

Anyway, WRT the OP...it's cliche, but only the dead have seen the end of war. It would take something massive that I couldn't even imagine to get States to stop warring with each other-using other people for cannon fodder and strongmen, of course.

[jmdrake]

Very moving. Of course, you can't please everyone.

"Christmas Truce" supermarket ad causes kerfuffle in UK
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...erfuffle-in-UK

Some people are just plain evil and worship war as a god.

[helmuth_hubener]

It would take something massive that I couldn't even imagine to get States to stop warring with each other-using other people for cannon fodder and strongmen, of course.

It would likewise take something massive and inconceivable to convince mice to stop eating human food they find laying around. Yet, somehow, none of the food in my home is being eaten by mice (as far as I know!).

You can't change the mice, but you can clear them out.

The monopoly state is intrinsically tied up in war, true. The best and only solution is to clear out the monopoly state from your society.

[Ronin Truth]

That was a beautiful piece! I always liked the legends of that truce. A great illustration of how the regular people don't want war, and generally get along well when left alone (rational self-interest) -it is the State that thrives on warfare. :P

Anyway, WRT the OP...it's cliche, but only the dead have seen the end of war. It would take something massive that I couldn't even imagine to get States to stop warring with each other-using other people for cannon fodder and strongmen, of course.

BILLIONS of folks every day aren't warring.

[helmuth_hubener]

Thanks for your reply, Occam! I hadn't seen that you beat me to it posting this vid, but I should have known.

Nevertheless, it is subject to the real and abiding fear that sooner or later productive Americans will come to recognize the continually increasing burden of taxation, inflation, and regulation for what it really is — naked exploitation. So the US government, the most powerful mega-state in history, is driven by the very logic of the political relationship to pursue a policy of permanent war.

So the state is driven to make war in order to buttress its legitimacy. Make it look like they're doing something useful. I think there's something to that. Sad that war is so popular today that engaging in war could be a public relations tool. Making war should decrease your reputation, not increase it.

Hoppe also puts forth the very interesting theory, and I think it's true, about freer countries being more aggressive militarily. The freer a country is, internally, the richer they become, and that means more resources at the state's disposal, and that means it will be able to soundly whip its more repressive totalitarian neighbors. So, freedom internally leads to bellicosity externally in foreign policy.

So another very important reason why the US makes so much war, and one more important than the "war as a PR stunt" reason that Salerno brings up, is this: The US makes war because it can win.

[Acala]

It would likewise take something massive and inconceivable to convince mice to stop eating human food they find laying around. Yet, somehow, none of the food in my home is being eaten by mice (as far as I know!).

You can't change the mice, but you can clear them out.

The monopoly state is intrinsically tied up in war, true. The best and only solution is to clear out the monopoly state from your society.

War existed before the monopoly state. The North American Indians were in a state of nearly perpetual war with each other even though they were largely governed by consensus and non-coercive governments.

Our governments are not some kind of entity imposed upon us from without. They are a projection of what we are as individuals. There can be no top-down solution. There will be no change until we change as individuals, and then the top will change without effort.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Not a chance... and government(s), shadow elites, and their corporate bribers/campaign donors, executive job openings for politicians and generals, will always be there to; incite war, incite people/groups against one another, incite conflict, reciprocate self profits/wealth and control/power. Subversion, by the few that control the entire show, have always been the operations of those in power.

NOT A CHANCE

NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY: Blackmail Inc. For The Military Industrial Complex? – Secrets of the Fed

[helmuth_hubener]

War existed before the monopoly state.

Yes, but not like afterwards, not like today. Regardless, as libertarians we are in no way just trying to "turn back the clock" and go back to primitive tribalism, nor to 1800s America, nor anywhere else in history, despite what our enemies may think.

If we were to eliminate the monopoly state in the way in which I would like, I believe warfare would necessarily become much more difficult, rare, and small-scale.

[Zippyjuan]

The world has never been without some war going on someplace.

[heavenlyboy34]

War existed before the monopoly state. The North American Indians were in a state of nearly perpetual war with each other even though they were largely governed by consensus and non-coercive governments.

Our governments are not some kind of entity imposed upon us from without. They are a projection of what we are as individuals. There can be no top-down solution. There will be no change until we change as individuals, and then the top will change without effort.

Yes, but there was not Total War until the rise of The State (especially the modern State). I submit to you that governments are imposed from without. No one in their right mind would consent to be governed by any State currently in existence. Further, all regimes are created by a relatively small part of any given society. Your final point is right, though. As long as most hands prop up leviathan, it will not topple easily.

[Ronin Truth]

"War is the health of the state."

http://www.panarchy.org/bourne/state.1918.html

[jmdrake]

Not a chance... and government(s), shadow elites, and their corporate bribers/campaign donors, executive job openings for politicians and generals, will always be there to; incite war, incite people/groups against one another, incite conflict, reciprocate self profits/wealth and control/power. Subversion, by the few that control the entire show, have always been the operations of those in power.

NOT A CHANCE

NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY: Blackmail Inc. For The Military Industrial Complex? – Secrets of the Fed

Wow! I didn't know this a full movie!

[jmdrake]

War existed before the monopoly state. The North American Indians were in a state of nearly perpetual war with each other even though they were largely governed by consensus and non-coercive governments.

The most warlike Indians were the most "civilized". The nomadic Indians fought small skirmishes over resources. The statist Indians engaged in large scale campaigns to expand their empire and capture victims for human sacrifice.

Our governments are not some kind of entity imposed upon us from without. They are a projection of what we are as individuals. There can be no top-down solution. There will be no change until we change as individuals, and then the top will change without effort.

Left to our own devices how many would travel thousands of miles to a foreign land to kill someone that hadn't done anything to us? The state focuses and magnifies our base desires by setting up mayhem and murder as a common goal. World War I is an extreme example of this. One terrorist kills a couple of royals and the whole world goes to war over it? Stupid. Just plain stupid. The U.S. could have stayed out of WW I if we had told the British "The only way we're shipping you anything is if you allow our ships through the blockade to Germany as well. You blockade Germany, we boycott you." WW I would have ended in 1915 and millions of lives could have been spared.

[Scrooge McDuck]

Great to see. And so encouraging to remember that this really happened. Just today I re-read the chapter of Market for Liberty titled The Abolition of War.

[oyarde]

Will the Wars ever cease ? Probably not that I can imagine.

[oyarde]

Today ,as gifts , I gave away; from Northern Alabama, some Archaic artifacts .Points so old they probably pre date the bow an arrow . One , clearly a spear point ( slightly damaged and probably not from hunting ), two others , quartz , one , probably a hunting projectile , the other , probably a fish spear . Another , from Mississippi , clearly a hunting point, the other , from Kentucky ,a serious spear point as well , most likely , never used for hunting meat .

[limequat]

Switzerland hasn't been in a war since 1848.

Outlaw the public ownership of weapons. Disarm the state. Stop the war.

[limequat]

Switzerland hasn't been in a war since 1848.

Outlaw the public ownership of weapons. Disarm the state. Stop the war.