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Thread: FDA and cheese boards

  1. #1

    FDA and cheese boards

    http://cheeseunderground.blogspot.co...en-boards.html

    A sense of disbelief and distress is quickly rippling through the U.S. artisan cheese community, as the federal Food and Drug Administration (FDA) this week announced it will not permit American cheesemakers to age cheese on wooden boards.
    While most cheesemakers have, perhaps, begrudgingly accepted most of what has been coming down the FSMA pike, including the requirement of HACCP plans and increased federal regulations and inspections, no one expected this giant regulation behemoth to virtually put a stop to innovation in the American artisanal cheese movement.
    No one ever expects the Inquisition.

    XNN
    Last edited by XNavyNuke; 06-09-2014 at 10:26 AM. Reason: Changed "every" to "ever"
    "They sell us the president the same way they sell us our clothes and our cars. They sell us every thing from youth to religion the same time they sell us our wars. I want to know who the men in the shadows are. I want to hear somebody asking them why. They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are but theyre never the ones to fight or to die." - Jackson Browne Lives In The Balance



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  3. #2
    If nobody expected this, then everybody is clearly stupid. This is the most frustrating part about being libertarian. Twenty years ago when they started laying HAACP it was clear how it would evolve, just like very other damned program they start. But if we were there telling the cheesemakers that their wooden boards would be outlawed, they would have laughed and called us paranoid.

  4. #3
    I hadn't heard about the rash of illnesses among artisan cheese-eaters. They're even going to "protect" us from imported cheese aged on wooden boards.

    On a personal note, this comes just as our prog friends finished building a cheese house on their ranch. I told them back when BigAg's food "safety" bill passed they'd better prepare and find out in advance what the government will allow them to do before they make plans. I'm sure they'll find a way to rationalize it like they always do.

    Hard to believe the government can just snap their fingers and automatically destroy what a person has planned and built, and all that money and time go to waste, and then have to pay even more to be "in compliance." It's insane.

    "According to the FDA this is merely proper enforcement of the policy that was already in place. While the FDA has had jurisdiction in all food plants, it deferred cheese inspections almost exclusively to the states. This has all obviously changed under FSMA."

    Ah, FSMA. For those of you not in the know, the Food Safety Modernization Act is the most sweeping reform of American food safety laws in generations. It was signed into law by President Obama on January 4, 2011 and aims to ensure the U.S. food supply is safe by shifting the focus from responding to contamination to preventing it.
    [...]
    Wisconsin cheesemaker Chris Roelli says the FDA's "clarified" stance on using wooden boards is a "potentially devastating development" for American cheesemakers. He and his family have spent the past eight years re-building Roelli Cheese into a next-generation American artisanal cheese factory. Just last year, he built what most would consider to be a state-of-the-art aging facility into the hillside behind his cheese plant. And Roelli, like hundreds of American artisanal cheesemaekrs, has developed his cheese recipes specifically to be aged on wooden boards.

    "The very pillar that we built our niche business on is the ability to age our cheese on wood planks, an art that has been practiced in Europe for thousands of years," Roelli says. Not allowing American cheesemakers to use this practice puts them "at a global disadvantage because the flavor produced by aging on wood can not be duplicated. This is a major game changer for the dairy industry in Wisconsin, and many other states."

    As if this weren't all bad enough, the FDA has also "clarified" - I'm really beginning to dislike that word - that in accordance with FSMA, a cheesemaker importing cheese to the United States is subject to the same rules and inspection procedures as American cheesemakers.

    Therefore, Cornell University's Ralyea says, "It stands to reason that if an importer is using wood boards, the FDA would keep these cheeses from reaching our borders until the cheese maker is in compliance. The European Union authorizes and allows the use of wood boards. Further, the great majority of cheeses imported to this country are in fact aged on wooden boards and some are required to be aged on wood by their standard of identity (Comte, Beaufort and Reblochon, to name a few). Therefore, it will be interesting to see how these specific cheeses will be dealt with when it comes to importation into the United States."
    [...]
    In fact, many research papers do in fact conclude that wooden boards are safe. In 2013, the Wisconsin Center for Dairy Research published a paper on the subject, concluding: "Considering the beneficial effects of wood boards on cheese ripening and rind formation, the use of wood boards does not seem to present any danger of contamination by pathogenic bacteria as long as a thorough cleaning procedure is followed." You can read the whole report on pages 8-9 by clicking on this link.
    Progs are anti-science.
    Last edited by Lucille; 06-09-2014 at 10:01 AM.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  5. #4
    This is all that the site will allow me to copy. One cheese-maker said he lost a year's income because the FDA didn't make it clear what it needed him to do to be in compliance.

    Cheese producer responds to FDA consent decree
    http://www.dairyreporter.com/Sectors...consent-decree

    A New York cheese producer hit with a consent decree of permanent injunction due to Listeria contamination has said it was unclear on what needed to be done to be in compliance.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    On a personal note, this comes just as our prog friends finished building a cheese house on their ranch. I told them back when BigAg's food "safety" bill passed they'd better prepare and find out in advance what the government will allow them to do before they make plans. I'm sure they'll find a way to rationalize it like they always do.
    Wow hopefully you can share their response on this one.
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  7. #6
    Just wait until everything in your home comes under regulation.

    "Food safety inspection, Ma'am. We need to check the temperature of your refrigerator and swab some surface samples in your kitchen. By the way, have you had that crib inspected and approved? And does that cardboard box in the trash with the Remington label mean that there are guns in the home? Please step outside, you will have to wait for some of our colleagues to come in and do additional inspections."
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #7
    I take some small bit of comfort that those elitist wine and cheese eaters are just the folk that helped build the big govt that brought this on.

  9. #8
    I'll be able to get the low down on this. Sister is a milk inspector for MN. Already forwarded the article. They are in cheese plants constantly for "compliance". They are also on farms every 5 months.

    Cheese is essentially mold, what don't these douche bags understand? State of MN hired another guy with my Sister to take a different area of the state. Dude had never set foot on a farm. He's out there shutting down farms for things that are not possible to prevent because he has no practical knowledge of anything related to the dairy industry. My guess is some jackass who's never stepped foot outside their AC'ed office made the call.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Wow hopefully you can share their response on this one.
    I will!

    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I take some small bit of comfort that those elitist wine and cheese eaters are just the folk that helped build the big govt that brought this on.
    I'm ambivalent about it. I can enjoy the schadenfreude, but sadly we all get the government they deserve.

    FDA to Save Us From Scourge of Wood-Aged Artisanal Cheese
    http://reason.com/blog/2014/06/09/de...-unsafe-cheese
    The latest foodmakers to face destruction from the Food and Drug Adminstration's (FDA) need to regulate all the things: artisanal cheesemakers. As part of a new push to enforce certain aspects of the Food Safety Modernization Act (FSMA), passed in 2011, the agency announced that it will no longer allow cheesemakers to use wooden boards in the aging process.

    "A sense of disbelief and distress is quickly rippling through the U.S. artisan cheese community," notes Jeanne Carpenter at Cheese Underground, a blog for artisanal cheesemakers. Traditionally, the FDA has mostly deferred cheese inspections to the states. But the FDA recently inspected several New York cheesemakers and cited them for using wooden surfaces to age cheeses.
    [...]
    The fact that wood's porousness allows it to retain bacteria is actually one reason why cheesemakers use this method. Contra the 19th century, not all bacteria is bad. Cheese, yogurt, kombucha, tempeh, and other foods containing live active cultures can actually be incredibly beneficial for humans' immune system and overall health. But what about the bad bacteria—is there any validity to the FDA's claim that bad bacteria can't be properly purged from wooden boards?

    The University of Tennessee Forest Extension says that while "some have suggested that it is 'just common sense' that a porous material like wood would be harder to keep clean than plastic," testing doesn't necessarily support this assumption. The Wisconsin Center for Dairy Research compiled research on the subject here—there's been a lot of it from France, unsurprisingly—and it suggests that proper cleaning and sanitization methods can sufficiently wipe out bacteria from various kinds of wooden boards. A 1992 study showed those using wooden cutting boards at home were less than half as likely as average to contract salmonellosis, while those using synthetic (plastic or glass) cutting boards were about twice as likely to do so.

    Many of the most awarded and well-respected American cheeses are aged on wooden boards, according to Cheese Underground. "The very pillar that we built our niche business on is the ability to age our cheese on wood planks, an art that has been practiced in Europe for thousands of years," Wisconsin cheesemaker Chris Roelli—who developed his cheese recipes specifically to be aged on wooden boards—told the blog.
    [...]
    Cheesemakers importing to the United States will be subject to the same wooden board ban, which in effect means we'll just miss out on a lot of cheese imports. The European Union—not generally known to $#@! around on food safety—is totally cool with the use of wood boards in aging cheese (as is Canada). In fact, certain types of cheese must be aged on wood in order to get the designation (Comte, Beaufort, Reblochon).
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  12. #10
    Just remember that revolving door of employment/leadership that spins from the FDA to the food/biotech industry and then back again, folks. That is important here. Seems like the folks commenting at the source of the op were beginning to get into it before comments were closed down.

  13. #11
    Cheese Na ... ah, hell, you know ...

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  14. #12
    Not to let science get in the way, but wood boards have natural bacterial limiting agents in them which artificial boards do not have. But hey, let's not get in the way of bacterial discrimination.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
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    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  15. #13
    Slightly off-topic but to the point. I make a lot of pizza's, I used to use plastic or metal containers to store/rise my dough in. More recently I read into the historic ways people used to make and store doughs and I was amazed to find out that they actually used wood. So I started rising my dough on wooden boards (in the fridge). I thought it may become messy to clean up or the boards would get moldy fast. After dozens of cycles of making dough there's still no sign of wood degradation. The wood balances the hydration in the dough, I can't say it is 'much better' than plastic or metal but there is a definite noticeable difference in dough quality. After baking you can't really taste it but it has an effect on stretchability.

    Wooden boards must have similar effects on cheeses, I can see how the temperature and heat adsorption rate can influence how cheese ripens... If it hasn't ripened on a wooden board you shouldn't be able to call it cheese... Come on. Call it cheese surrogate.

  16. #14
    On Trump:
    How conservative Republicans can continue to support this arrogant imposter—the man who brags about inflicting the world with the Covid mark of the beast; the man who said, “Take the guns first, go through due process second”; and the man who deliberately played and then set up Stewart Rhodes (of course, Stewart was all too eager to be Trump’s patsy) for an 18-year prison sentence—is truly beyond my comprehension.” Chuck Baldwin

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    Slightly off-topic but to the point. I make a lot of pizza's, I used to use plastic or metal containers to store/rise my dough in. More recently I read into the historic ways people used to make and store doughs and I was amazed to find out that they actually used wood. So I started rising my dough on wooden boards (in the fridge). I thought it may become messy to clean up or the boards would get moldy fast. After dozens of cycles of making dough there's still no sign of wood degradation. The wood balances the hydration in the dough, I can't say it is 'much better' than plastic or metal but there is a definite noticeable difference in dough quality. After baking you can't really taste it but it has an effect on stretchability.

    Wooden boards must have similar effects on cheeses, I can see how the temperature and heat adsorption rate can influence how cheese ripens... If it hasn't ripened on a wooden board you shouldn't be able to call it cheese... Come on. Call it cheese surrogate.
    I've been making and selling wooden chopping blocks to local chefs for decades.

    Those in the know shun plastics...

    http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/fa...ttingboard.htm

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    I've been making and selling wooden chopping blocks to local chefs for decades.

    Those in the know shun plastics...

    http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/fa...ttingboard.htm
    I use a wooden cutting board, not only are they safer, they last forever and don't dull your knives.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    I use a wooden cutting board, not only are they safer, they last forever and don't dull your knives.
    End-grain I hope?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    End-grain I hope?
    I have both. I use my end-grain one the most, it's huge and heavy as hell so I just leave it on the counter. I wonder how old that thing is, my Granny gave it to me back in the early nineties when she moved into senior living apartments (there wasn't enough room for it in her tiny kitchen).

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    I have both. I use my end-grain one the most, it's huge and heavy as hell so I just leave it on the counter. I wonder how old that thing is, my Granny gave it to me back in the early nineties when she moved into senior living apartments (there wasn't enough room for it in her tiny kitchen).
    It's the best thing for knifes!

    I'm sure whoever does the sharpening in your family is grateful...

  23. #20
    Sanity prevails (for now). The FDA goes all Emily Litella.

    Our Short National Cheese Nightmare Is Over: FDA Backtracks on Wood-Aged Cheese
    http://reason.com/blog/2014/06/11/wo...is-ok-says-fda

    Earlier this week, I posted about a potential Food and Drug Administration (FDA) crack down* on cheese aged on wood surfaces. It's a practice that's been going on for hundreds of years, and may be more sanitary than aging cheese on plastic. Cheesemakers, libertarians, and a whole bunch of others were rightly outraged, and began making this known.

    Well, good news: The FDA announced Tuesday that wood-aged cheese is safe. From Dairy Herd Management magazine:

    The agency said it did not have a new policy banning wooden shelves in cheese-making, adding there was no requirement in recent food safety regulations requiring the agency to address the issue.
    Well, okay, but is there an old policy or an old requirement? Because in January the agency cited several New York cheesemakers for using wooden shelves. Industry blog Cheese Underground said this was unusual, as the FDA has traditionally deferred to state policy on this; but the rollout of 2011's Food Safety Modernization Act (FSMA) has been compelling all sorts of weird new FDA meddling.

    When the New York Agriculture Department asked for clarification, Monica Metz, an official with the FDA's Dairy and Egg Branch, said the wooden shelves didn't conform to FDA "good manufacturing practice" regulations. But the FDA clarified Tuesday that it had never taken action against a cheesemaker based solely on the use of wood. It's just that these particular wooden shelves at these particular places were poorly cleaned.

    Oh my. Has this all just been so much dairy industry hysteria? Or is the FDA backpedaling amidst the criticism? From the FDA's statement yesterday, it sounds to me like more of the latter.

    "In the interest of public health, the FDA's current regulations state that utensils and other surfaces that contact food must be 'adequately cleanable' and properly maintained," Lauren Sucher, an FDA spokeswoman, said in a statement.

    "Historically, the FDA has expressed concern about whether wood meets this requirement and has noted these concerns in inspectional findings," she said. "FDA is always open to evidence that shows that wood can be safely used for specific purposes, such as aging cheese."
    [then read the research already]

    My takeaway from all this seems to be that the FDA isn't mulling some major push to end aging cheese on wooden surfaces. But if it comes across it in (routine?) inspections, cheesemakers may be cited.

    "Good for the FDA for backing down," wrote Forbes contributor Greg McNeal. "Although it’s unfortunate that they are dodging accountability by claiming they did not change their policy." At Cheese Underground, Jeanne Carpenter thanked consumers for writing letters, signing a petition, posting on Facebook, and generally making "standing up for artisan food a main-stream American issue." The FDA's "back-stepping in both tone and message is welcome news for the hundreds of cheesemakers across the country who have invested their life savings in making premium artisanal cheese and aging it on wooden boards," she wrote.

    * I despise this phrase, but I've yet to find a better alternative. Taking suggestions...
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  24. #21
    If I had known exotic cheeses would soon be in danger of Fedgoon Killjoys, I would have been so much more adventurous in the cheeses I bought, especially if most of them could be gone soon.

    Gonna grab a big hunk o Camembert to celebrate the reversal of the FDA decision, and to patronize the industry now when it needs it the most.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRey View Post
    If I had known exotic cheeses would soon be in danger of Fedgoon Killjoys, I would have been so much more adventurous in the cheeses I bought, especially if most of them could be gone soon.
    Fedgoon Killjoys would be a great name for a rock band ...

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Fedgoon Killjoys would be a great name for a rock band ...


    I almost called them simply, "Federal regulators", until I realized it's precisely the use of those soft, euphemistic terms of concealment and obfuscation which allow them to get away with this kind of bull$#@! in the first place.
    "When it gets down to having to use violence, then you are playing the system's game. The establishment will irritate you - pull your beard, flick your face - to make you fight, because once they've got you violent then they know how to handle you. The only thing they don't know how to handle is non-violence and humor. "

    ---John Lennon


    "I EAT NEOCONS FOR BREAKFAST!!!"

    ---Me

  27. #24
    More on the "for now" part:

    http://reason.com/archives/2014/06/1...eese-crackdown

    What saved cheese? As Walter Olson notes at Overlawyered, the FDA likely spared the substance (for now) thanks to the fact that cheese is a favorite of people who write columns defending their own highfalutin food choices.

    The FDA's statement goes on to claim adamantly and definitively that agency bureaucrats "have not and are not prohibiting or banning the long–standing practice of using wood shelving in artisanal cheese."

    It notes that a letter the FDA sent to the New York State Department of Agriculture earlier this year was to blame. "[The] language used in this communication may have appeared more definitive than it should have, in light of the agency’s actual practices on this issue," said the statement.

    So all of this public concern about a potential ban on artisanal cheesemaking is really just much ado about nothing? The FDA backed down, right?

    No, and no.


    The agency's statement also says that the FDA "will engage with the artisanal cheesemaking community" based on FDA's historic concerns "about whether wood meets [agency food safety] requirement[s.]" It will also "invite stakeholders to share any data or evidence they have gathered related to safety and the use of wood surfaces."

    Parsing this language is almost unnecessary. The FDA still wants to ban the use of wooden crates in cheesemaking.


    When the FDA "invites stakeholders" to "engage" with its bureaucrats, only bad things happen. When those stakeholders lack a powerful lobby in Washington, D.C., it's time to expect the worst.
    Brings a whole new meaning to the term "government cheese." Enjoy your Victory Cheese, Amerika!
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock



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  29. #25
    My ancestors have been making cheese like this for years. We really do need to ban the FDA!

    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  30. #26
    ..
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    "A liberal is a man who wants to use his own ideas on things in preference to generations who he knows know more than he does."--Will Rogers 1923
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  31. #27
    So this is what it has come to: cheese boards for cheese boards.

    Oh, well ...

    'Murrica!

  32. #28
    If we dont ban them, we will be the ones banned. From anything!
    1776 > 1984

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    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

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  33. #29
    LibForestPaul
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    This is all that the site will allow me to copy. One cheese-maker said he lost a year's income because the FDA didn't make it clear what it needed him to do to be in compliance.

    Cheese producer responds to FDA consent decree
    http://www.dairyreporter.com/Sectors...consent-decree

    A New York cheese producer hit with a consent decree of permanent injunction due to Listeria contamination has said it was unclear on what needed to be done to be in compliance.
    Easy, beg and grovel.
    So much easier in other countries. Pay money = get left alone. Not here, sick $#@!s don't need your stinkin money.

  34. #30
    LibForestPaul
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Just wait until everything in your home comes under regulation.

    "Food safety inspection, Ma'am. We need to check the temperature of your refrigerator and swab some surface samples in your kitchen. By the way, have you had that crib inspected and approved? And does that cardboard box in the trash with the Remington label mean that there are guns in the home? Please step outside, you will have to wait for some of our colleagues to come in and do additional inspections."
    Not in jest, unless you know where I can purchase some 100w incandescent light bulbs.



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