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Thread: Oklahoma, legal wrangling over 10 commandments

  1. #1

    Oklahoma, legal wrangling over 10 commandments

    Oklahoma Supreme Court rules Ten Commandments statue must be removed

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...cmp=latestnews

    An Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that a Ten Commandments monument on the Oklahoma Capitol grounds must be removed because it violates the state’s constitutional ban on using public property to benefit religion.

    The court said the Ten Commandments chiseled into the 6-foot-tall granite monument, which was privately funded by a Republican legislator, are “obviously religions in nature and are an integral part of the Jewish and Christian faiths.”

    The 7-2 ruling overturns a decision by a district court judge who determined the monument could stay. It prompted calls from several GOP lawmakers for impeachment of the justices who said it must be removed.

    Attorney General Scott Pruitt argued that the monument was historical, not religious, in nature and nearly identical to a Texas monument that was found constitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court. The Oklahoma justices said the local monument violated the state’s constitution, not the U.S. Constitution.

    "Quite simply, the Oklahoma Supreme Court got it wrong," Pruitt said in a statement. "The court completely ignored the profound historical impact of the Ten Commandments on the foundation of Western law."

    Pruitt asked for a rehearing and that the monument stays until the court considers his request. Pruitt also asked for a provision in the Oklahoma Constitution that prohibits the use of public funds for religions purposed may need to be repealed.

    Ryan Kiesel, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Oklahoma, which represented the plaintiffs in the case, said Pruitt's suggestion and the calls for impeachment amounted to sour grapes.

    "I think the idea that you go about amending the constitution every time you lose a court battle is a dangerous precedent for anyone to engage in, but in particular for the state's highest attorney to do so," Kiesel said. "And the calls for impeachment represent a fundamental misunderstanding of how an independent judiciary functions within our system of democratic government."

    Since the original monument was erected in 2012, other groups have asked to put up their own monuments on Capitol grounds. Among the groups asked to put up a monument include a Hindu leader and the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

    Rep. Mike Ritze, a Republican from Broken Arrow whose family paid about $10,000 for the monument's construction, pushed the bill authorizing the monument. He said he hoped the attorney general would appeal the ruling.

    The original monument was smashed into pieces in October, when someone drove a car across the Capitol lawn and crashed into it. A 29-year-old man who was arrested the next day was admitted to a hospital for mental health treatment, and formal charges were never filed.



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  3. #2
    Attorney General Scott Pruitt argued that the monument was historical, not religious, in nature and nearly identical to a Texas monument that was found constitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court. The Oklahoma justices said the local monument violated the state’s constitution, not the U.S. Constitution.
    Last I heard, the Oklahoma constitution was so hastily and completely copied from the Texas constitution that it also prohibits hunting whales--even though Oklahoma borders no ocean, sea or gulf...
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Last I heard, the Oklahoma constitution was so hastily and completely copied from the Texas constitution that it also prohibits hunting whales--even though Oklahoma borders no ocean, sea or gulf...
    It is also illegal to hunt whales in Nebraska .

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    It is also illegal to hunt whales in Nebraska .
    If I see a whale grazing in Ne. I'm shooting the damn thing law or no law.......

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    It is also illegal to hunt whales in Nebraska .
    Well, we do have one beneficiary of that prohibition...

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  7. #6
    it violates the state’s constitutional ban on using public property to benefit religion
    issue boils down to: "muh roads"

    http://libertarianpapers.org/article...blic-property/

    public property does not end conflict and expropriation but institutionalizes them and makes them permanent. Hence arises the imperative of privatization—and hence the principle of restitution, i.e., the notion that public property be returned qua private property to those from whom it had been forcibly taken. That is, public goods should become the private property of those who financed or otherwise funded these goods and who can establish an objective—intersubjectively ascertainable—claim to this effect.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  8. #7
    Is the Satanic OKC capitol building monument still OK?

  9. #8
    What if they wanted to put the Koran in the capital? Would it receive the same support?



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Is the Satanic OKC capitol building monument still OK?
    Hard to damage something that doesn't exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    What if they wanted to put the Koran in the capital? Would it receive the same support?
    Probably not. A chunk of stone on the lawn requires somewhat more of a foundation than a book in a building.

    Why? Do you think apple peelers should be able to peel oranges just as easily?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Hard to damage something that doesn't exist.
    Who mentioned damage?

    Did you happen to drink your lunch today?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Is the Satanic OKC capitol building monument still OK?
    why...was it damaged?

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    If I see a whale grazing in Ne. I'm shooting the damn thing law or no law.......
    Of course .

  15. #13
    Correct decision. If the government has so much extra land that it can host private monuments, it needs to sell that extra land. If it refuses to do so, then it needs to host EVERY monument that ANYONE wants to install without regard to what philosophy it promotes. Excerpts from the Marquis de Sade complete with illustrations, for example.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by JK/SEA View Post
    why...was it damaged?
    Not yet, that I'm aware of.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    If I see a whale grazing in Ne. I'm shooting the damn thing law or no law.......
    One morning I shot a whale in my pajamas ...
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    If I see a whale grazing in Ne. I'm shooting the damn thing law or no law.......
    Hold your fire, Mister! The Christie Campaign will be coming through Nebraska eventually.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton



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  20. #17
    The Commandments are no longer on the capitol grounds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The Commandments are no longer on the capitol grounds.
    And God, in his wrath, flooded South Carolina.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    If I see a whale grazing in Ne. I'm shooting the damn thing law or no law.......
    Fat people in Whalemart.

  23. #20
    An Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that a Ten Commandments monument on the Oklahoma Capitol grounds must be removed because it violates the state’s constitutional ban on using public property to benefit religion it is in direct competition with the religion of state.
    Who they trying to fool?
    Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe. Proverbs 29:25
    "I think the propaganda machine is the biggest problem that we face today in trying to get the truth out to people."
    Ron Paul

    Please watch, subscribe, like, & share, Ron Paul Liberty Report
    BITCHUTE IS A LIBERTY MINDED ALTERNATIVE TO GOOGLE SUBSIDIARY YOUTUBE

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The Commandments are no longer on the capitol grounds.
    Yup, removed in the dead of night, just before the deadline expired at midnight. I wonder how much overtime and extra pay was required for all those contractors, cops, and whoever else was dragged out there to do the deed late at night, all at taxpayer expense, of course. So much for fiscal conservatism from the Drone Queen, I'll be very glad when she's out in 2018.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  25. #22
    According to this morning's paper, the company who built the monument haven't been paid for it.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    According to this morning's paper, the company who built the monument haven't been paid for it.
    I find this amusing.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton



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