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Thread: NBC mentions Ron Paul "the ayes have it" screwover in convention write-up

  1. #1

    NBC mentions Ron Paul "the ayes have it" screwover in convention write-up

    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016...ention-n541146

    Romney Precedent

    Apart from the current candidates, some RNC members have a bitter aftertaste from an obscure skirmish over rules at the 2012 convention. Romney backers raised the bar for how candidates could qualify on the convention ballot, in order to avoid any symbolic floor votes for Ron Paul.

    "I really didn't like what happened in 2012," says committee member Peter Feaman. "The Romney folks silenced it with the rule change — we didn't need to do this, and it alienated the Ron Paul supporters — and for what? It was like taking a fly off someone's forehead with an ax," he said.

    When those rules were brought to a voice vote on the floor, the delegates cries of "no" sounded about as loud as the "yes" votes, according to a review of the footage.

    Image: At the 2012 Republican convention
    At the 2012 Republican convention, the prompter for Speaker Boehner's remarks showed he would find delayed voted "yes" on a rules package before the vote was actually held. mckenziedog / YouTube

    Speaker Boehner deemed the voice vote a yes, though, and the rules were adopted. As some delegates would later complain, the official teleprompter even scripted Boehner saying the "ayes have it" before the vote occurred (the moment was caught on tape).

    The new Speaker, Paul Ryan, will chair this year's convention, a role he mentioned Thursday while noting there's a "perception" that an "open convention" is likely.



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  3. #2
    Thanks for the reminder. 2016 is going to be a delegate thunderdome. Good thing Cleveland has initiated their billy clubs for blue hairs security program.

  4. #3
    All the more reason for liberty lovers to work together the best way we can.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  5. #4
    Ron was a "fly on the forehead"? I think he was a bigger threat than that.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  6. #5

    Hoping to see this scandal finally exposed

    Great to see drips and drabs of the story finally leaking out. Hope it develops into a deluge!

    Breitbart also recently did a story referring to the "Ron Paul rule" for the first time. I'm wondering if the resignation of Paul-smearing editor, Ben Shapiro, has anything to do with the willingness to almost acknowledge that Ron Paul got outrageously screwed by the establishment at the 2012 RNC. (As recently as last month, Shapiro made a point of calling Ron Paul an "anti-semite." No kidding! I managed to get the first post under that story and called Shapiro a liar over it. A number of people agreed with me, but of course, my post got deleted. )

    I wish someone would interview (rules committee member) Morton Blackwell, about how his bus got "lost" on the way to the convention the day the rules committee made those changes. It even circled the convention hall numerous times and the driver would not allow them to get off. Blackwell was an outspoken opponent of the rules changes and they needed for him and some other members, to be held up elsewhere, in order to force through those changes without any opposition. (This took place at a meeting, before the phony voice vote.) It was all incredibly sleazy!

    (Sad to realize that Paul Ryan will be in charge of the next convention, but it always goes to the house speaker, doesn't it?)
    Last edited by Valli6; 03-18-2016 at 10:07 AM.

  7. #6
    You guys can't talk about this. It's not allowed.

    If you open up the possibility that something important happened at the 2012 convention that Ron Paul supporters were needed for, then you open up the possibility that Rand's endorsement of Romney actually was a kick in the teeth.

    And if there's one thing that we've settled on this site over the last four years, it's that there was absolutely no problem with Rand's endorsement. Ron was done by June 2012 and there was nothing at the convention worth doing outside of Rand's schmoozing and politicking.

    By bringing up the idea that the 2012 convention was about more than just the nominee, you're giving those retards who didn't like the Romney endorsement more evidence that they were actually right. So cut it out.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    You guys can't talk about this. It's not allowed.

    If you open up the possibility that something important happened at the 2012 convention that Ron Paul supporters were needed for, then you open up the possibility that Rand's endorsement of Romney actually was a kick in the teeth.

    And if there's one thing that we've settled on this site over the last four years, it's that there was absolutely no problem with Rand's endorsement. Ron was done by June 2012 and there was nothing at the convention worth doing outside of Rand's schmoozing and politicking.

    By bringing up the idea that the 2012 convention was about more than just the nominee, you're giving those retards who didn't like the Romney endorsement more evidence that they were actually right. So cut it out.

    To be fair, I think Rand was trying a different approach, which has shown to fail too. Dr Paul has taken a much tougher road, and was beginning to see dividend payments, after 30+ years of prophecy fulfillment. Its too bad Dr Paul did not have another 2-4 elections to chase. I dont blame Rand for trying a different strategy, and I dont blame others for taking issue with Rand either. Seems that we have very few eggs in the Liberty basket, and folks want to make sure great care is taken with each and every one of them.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  9. #8
    What a bunch of pricks.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    Ron was a "fly on the forehead"? I think he was a bigger threat than that.
    No, not in winning the nomination, he wasn't. But, I think there was the possibility that he would have a speaking slot and that, they did not want.
    Last edited by LibertyEagle; 03-18-2016 at 10:56 AM.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Valli6 View Post
    Great to see drips and drabs of the story finally leaking out. Hope it develops into a deluge!

    Breitbart also recently did a story referring to the "Ron Paul rule" for the first time. I'm wondering if the resignation of Paul-smearing editor, Ben Shapiro, has anything to do with the willingness to almost acknowledge that Ron Paul got outrageously screwed by the establishment at the 2012 RNC. (As recently as last month, Shapiro made a point of calling Ron Paul an "anti-semite." No kidding! I managed to get the first post under that story and called Shapiro a liar over it. A number of people agreed with me, but of course, my post got deleted. )

    I wish someone would interview (rules committee member) Morton Blackwell, about how his bus got "lost" on the way to the convention the day the rules committee made those changes. It even circled the convention hall numerous times and the driver would not allow them to get off. Blackwell was an outspoken opponent of the rules changes and they needed for him and some other members, to be held up elsewhere, in order to force through those changes without any opposition. (This took place at a meeting, before the phony voice vote.) It was all incredibly sleazy!

    (Sad to realize that Paul Ryan will be in charge of the next convention, but it always goes to the house speaker, doesn't it?)
    There is a video somewhere where Blackwell talked about that and said the conspiracy bull$#@! about it being intentionally late was not true. So, you might want to search for it. It was posted on here at the time, I recall.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  13. #11
    I guess its somewhat of a validation

  14. #12
    I love how there was next to no articles, no news, no attention being given to the fact this happened, as it was happening. You had to turn into alternative news sources, like Democracy Now, to get any kind of coverage on this. Instead, it was all about how unstoppable Romney was and how he was cruising to victory. I don't remember them even mentioning Ron Paul's name on the media networks throughout the convention, short of Wolf Blitzer interview with Rand..

    Now that we have Mr. Anti-Establishment, real or not, being in the same position Romney was in, brokered and open conventions are suddenly a "thing" and are an important matter that needs further reporting and attention.

    Thanks media for using the same level of thorough reporting and investigation in 2012 as you are now in 2016. Oh wait..

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    Ron was a "fly on the forehead"? I think he was a bigger threat than that.
    He was a intestinal parasite up Romney's ass.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by RDM View Post
    He was a intestinal parasite up Romney's ass.
    I think Dr Paul was highly disruptive and did pose a significant threat. The extreme measures taken by the RNC were not, IMO, an overreaction.

    Also, I would not call Ron Paul an intestinal parasite. I think the establishment wing of the republican party an absolute infestation of parasites in the world's intestines though. Maybe Ron Paul could be called the de-worming agent, in your analogy? Not trying to put words in your mouth, just trying to make the analogy work better

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  17. #15
    Hopefully this time there will be a motion from the floor to remove the teleprompter entirely.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  18. #16
    I'm not sure it was a screw over. I think Ron Paul didn't want to be nominated and probably supported the rule change as a way to keep himself from having to decline a nomination.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    Ron was a "fly on the forehead"? I think he was a bigger threat than that.
    How was he any threat at all?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    How was he any threat at all?
    ? You were here... Ron Paul was threatening the delegation process and influencing the platform at the RNC.

    I would not consider that insignificant - not in the least. I dont agree with your theory on him not wanting the nomination, btw. I think it was strange that he made his deal with Romney, but Wead (awesome human being) did a good job, and was very generous, in explaining the situation.





    <head_scratch> Did RPF get redirected somewhere? Not sure I recognize this place anymore.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    I'm not sure it was a screw over. I think Ron Paul didn't want to be nominated and probably supported the rule change as a way to keep himself from having to decline a nomination.
    How do you think the end of this speech would have gone when he declined the nomination?

    Sorry to all the hundreds of thousands of people in the Middle East who will be murdered by our next President. Sorry to the millions of non-violent Americans in prison who will continue to have their lives stolen from them by the state. Sorry to all of the wage slaves in this country who will have to continue being robbed of nearly 50% of their income. Sorry to all of the unborn children who will be murdered. Sorry to all of the people who will continue to live in poverty and starve because of government intervention into the marketplace and our monetary system. Sorry to all of the small family ranchers who will continue to have their livelihood and land stolen from them by the government.

    I could have stopped it. I could accept the nomination. But I can't, because ______(fill in your response here)______.
    Last edited by dannno; 03-18-2016 at 12:17 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    How do you think the end of this speech would have gone when he declined the nomination?
    Which is exactly why Ron didn't want to have to give a speech at all. The rule change benefited him.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    ? You were here... Ron Paul was threatening the delegation process and influencing the platform at the RNC.
    The rule change didn't affect that.

    Yes, I was here. That's why I don't think Ron wanted to be nominated at the convention. If that were what Ron wanted, then Rand would have waited until after the convention to endorse Romney.
    Last edited by erowe1; 03-18-2016 at 12:24 PM.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    I'm not sure it was a screw over. I think Ron Paul didn't want to be nominated and probably supported the rule change as a way to keep himself from having to decline a nomination.
    Wut???

    Ridiculous.

    Getting nominated is not the same thing as winning the nomination.

    Ron most assuredly wanted to have his name placed in nomination and have the delegate votes cast for him be announced, and to thereby earn the right to make a live, unedited speech to the convention, even though he knew with certainty that Romney had enough bound delegates to lock up the nomination.

    The Romney forces wanted to have approval rights on what Ron would say, which Ron was unwilling to agree to. The Romney forces were deathly afraid of the clarion call for Liberty that Ron would undoubtedly make. Hence the video tribute to Ron which was presented at the convention instead.
    Brawndo's got what plants crave. Its got electrolytes.



    H. L. Mencken said it best:


    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”


    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by francisco View Post
    Ron most assuredly wanted to have his name placed in nomination and have the delegate votes cast for him be announced, and to thereby earn the right to make a live, unedited speech to the convention, even though he knew with certainty that Romney had enough bound delegates to lock up the nomination.
    No he didn't.

    I challenge you to find a single instance of him saying he wanted that.

    Lots of people here at this website wanted that. But none of them ever bothered to ask if that was what Ron wanted.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    No he didn't.

    I challenge you to find a single instance of him saying he wanted that.

    Lots of people here at this website wanted that. But none of them ever bothered to ask if that was what Ron wanted.
    First of all, a cursory google search yields the following direct quote from Ron, indicating that he wanted to make an unencumbered speech to the convention:


    Paul disclosed the extortion plot to the New York Times in an interview leading up to Paul Fest, the Paul-focused convention in Florida happening this weekend, and he said he still doesn't "fully" endorse Romney:


    Mr. Paul, in an interview, said convention planners had offered him an opportunity to speak under two conditions: that he deliver remarks vetted by the Romney campaign, and that he give a full-fledged endorsement of Mr. Romney. He declined.

    “It wouldn’t be my speech,” Mr. Paul said. “That would undo everything I’ve done in the last 30 years. I don’t fully endorse him for president.”
    http://news.yahoo.com/ron-paul-denie...204158724.html

    So there can be no doubt about that. Ron wanted to speak. Period.

    Are you making the claim that in addition, Ron really didn't want to have his name placed in nomination? After all the work he did running for the election? If your standard of support on this issue is a direct quote from Ron, where is your evidence for your contention?
    Brawndo's got what plants crave. Its got electrolytes.



    H. L. Mencken said it best:


    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”


    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by francisco View Post
    First of all, a cursory google search yields the following direct quote from Ron, indicating that he wanted to make an unencumbered speech to the convention:




    http://news.yahoo.com/ron-paul-denie...204158724.html

    So there can be no doubt about that. Ron wanted to speak. Period.

    Are you making the claim that in addition, Ron really didn't want to have his name placed in nomination? After all the work he did running for the election? If your standard of support on this issue is a direct quote from Ron, where is your evidence for your contention?
    Notice that that is not about giving a nomination speech, but a speech as an invited speaker. Giving a speech as a nominee was something Ron never wanted. He didn't want to endorse Romney, but he also didn't want to keep fighting against him after the fight was over.

    Yes, I am claiming that, after losing the primaries, Ron did not want to have his name placed in nomination.

    I think there's plenty of evidence.

    First of all, Rand's endorsement of Romney would not have happened before the convention if Ron were still running and wanted to be nominated.

    Second, right before the convention, in a conference call with the delegates, a staffer from his campaign told them that if they tried to nominate Ron, he wouldn't accept it. Later on, after there was a clamor of outrage from people who all along were convinced that nominating him at the convention was the plan, the campaign said the staffer made a mistake in saying that. But I think that's implausible. They were just trying to smooth over the fallout from it. It wouldn't have been possible for a staffer to make a mistake like that if it really were the plan of the campaign itself for Ron to be nominated and give a nomination speech.

    Third, if that had been what Ron wanted, he would have said so, and planned for it, with his official campaign coordinating it. It wouldn't have been up to the delegates to pursue on their own initiative without his go ahead like they did.

    I think that most likely, when the rule change happened, Ron Paul was aware of what was going on and approved of it, and those who made the change knew that he would not object to it. Notice that of all the people who have complained about it since that time, saying that he got screwed out of giving a speech or something, he himself has never made a peep about the rule change.

    Ron would have given a speech as an invited speaker if they had let him do it the way he wanted to. But he didn't want to give one as a nominee.

    If you disagree, then the ball's in your court. Where's your evidence? If what you say is true, the official campaign would have been explicit about it. It wouldn't just be a secret plan talked about on websites like this.
    Last edited by erowe1; 03-18-2016 at 01:34 PM.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    ... Giving a speech as a nominee was something Ron never wanted.
    And your evidence for this is what, exactly? Can you find a single instance where Ron said that?
    Brawndo's got what plants crave. Its got electrolytes.



    H. L. Mencken said it best:


    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”


    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    ?


    <head_scratch> Did RPF get redirected somewhere? Not sure I recognize this place anymore.
    truer words never spoken
    Brawndo's got what plants crave. Its got electrolytes.



    H. L. Mencken said it best:


    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”


    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by francisco View Post
    And your evidence for this is what, exactly? Can you find a single instance where Ron said that?
    You admit in post #24 that you did a Google search. Isn't it odd to you that you weren't able to find a single instance of Ron Paul or anyone associated with his official campaign saying that they were on board with the plan of nominating him at the convention? Isn't it odd to you that this plan was entirely executed by rogue delegates acting without any direction from the campaign?

    I think the evidence I already provided you was plenty.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    You admit in post #24 that you did a Google search. Isn't it odd to you that you weren't able to find a single instance of Ron Paul or anyone associated with his official campaign saying that they were on board with the plan of nominating him at the convention? Isn't it odd to you that this plan was entirely executed by rogue delegates acting without any direction from the campaign?

    I think the evidence I already provided you was plenty.
    Your arguments are not persuasive. My google search was literally less than 30 seconds and I cited the first direct responsive source I found which was direct and to the point. Frankly the idea that Ron didn’t want to be nominated after working so hard is absurd. If he didn’t want to be nominated why did he conspicuously not suspend his campaign?
    Brawndo's got what plants crave. Its got electrolytes.



    H. L. Mencken said it best:


    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”


    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by francisco View Post
    Your arguments are not persuasive. My google search was literally less than 30 seconds and I cited the first direct responsive source I found which was direct and to the point. Frankly the idea that Ron didn’t want to be nominated after working so hard is absurd. If he didn’t want to be nominated why did he conspicuously not suspend his campaign?
    He did suspend his campaign, and he did so conspicuously. His son even endorsed Romney after that.

    Go ahead and keep searching. Let us know if you ever find any evidence that Ron Paul still wanted to be nominated after conceding that it was impossible for him to win the nomination or ever felt like this rule change screwed him out of anything.

    If what I say is so absurd, I'm sure you'll be able to find something to support your claim.

    How do you think it was ever possible for his own campaign's staffer to tell all of his national convention delegates that Ron Paul would not accept the nomination and give a floor speech if they tried to nominate him, if, in fact, as you say, it was Ron's own plan all along to have them nominate him so he could give a floor speech? For that to have been a simple mistake is not possible.
    Last edited by erowe1; 03-18-2016 at 02:28 PM.

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