America Last - Ford now considering moving $1B truck plant expansion to Mexico

[Anti Federalist]

Ohio Rustbelt Future Uncertain as Ford Mulls Taking $900M Expansion to Mexico

https://www.theepochtimes.com/ohio-r...ign=whatfinger

By Michael Sakal

December 21, 2021 Updated: December 21, 2021

Just two years ago the United States economy was roaring, gas prices were low, and the global COVID-19 pandemic had not begun.

November 2019 was the perfect time for a four-year contract to be ratified between the United Autoworkers Union and Ford Motor Company that would include a $900 million expansion of the Ohio assembly plant.

That investment was likely to involve a new truck, possibly an electric one, and would bring with it 1,400 new jobs to the plant that produces the Econoline “Breakaways” and the heavy-duty F Series trucks.

The project, which would be completed by Sept. 15, 2023, could translate to more income for the municipalities and schools in the 49-year-old plant’s jurisdiction: Avon Lake, Sheffield Village, and Sheffield Lake.

It was the largest investment outlined in Ford’s contract with the autoworkers union for a single plant in the country. Overall, Ford planned to spend at least $6 billion at its 19 plants across the U.S., according to the contract.

But on March 12, 2021, less than two months after President Joe Biden took office, Ford announced that the project could head to Mexico.

The company had been tight-lipped about it and had never said why, the union’s Local 2000 president William Samples told the Epoch Times. Local 2000 represents about 1,600 workers.

The Ohio assembly plant is located on Miller Road in a 3.7 million-square-foot facility covering 419 acres in the west Cleveland suburb near Lake Erie.

It produces the F-650/750 medium-duty trucks, F-350/450/550 super duty chassis cabs, E-Series cutaways, and stripped chassis.

The uncertainty of the investment for the expansion defines the rust belt region of America’s Heartland that badly needs jobs and economic progress.

Talks between Ford and the union at Ohio were taking place “every day,” Samples said.

[Anti Federalist]

If there's justice in the world, when the leftist El Jefe, AMLO, moves on, he'll be replaced with an outright Communist like most of Central and South America are voting for, and they'll nationalize the whole lot of it.

[sparebulb]

If there's justice in the world, when the leftist El Jefe, AMLO, moves on, he'll be replaced with an outright Communist like most of Central and South America are voting for, and they'll nationalize the whole lot of it.

Big Bro has certainly already nationalized the form and function of new vehicles.

Like you said, might as well go all the way.

A People's Car, so to speak.

[Invisible Man]

So we get the vehicles, and somebody else does all the work to make them

And somehow I'm supposed to think that we're the ones getting the raw end of that deal?

Edit: It just hit me. Maybe Mexico making these Ford cars and trucks for us is how they're paying for the wall.

[Anti Federalist]

So we get the vehicles, and somebody else does all the work to make them

And somehow I'm supposed to think that we're the ones getting the raw end of that deal?

Edit: It just hit me. Maybe Mexico making these Ford cars and trucks for us is how they're paying for the wall.

The Mexicans are just gonna give you an F250?

That is a hell of a deal.

[RJB]

The tenured academic who never held down an honest job to feed his family tells us we're better off with no jobs.

So we get the vehicles, and somebody else does all the work to make them

And somehow I'm supposed to think that we're the ones getting the raw end of that deal?

Edit: It just hit me. Maybe Mexico making these Ford cars and trucks for us is how they're paying for the wall.

[Anti Federalist]

The tenured academic who never held down an honest job to feed his family tells us we're better off with no jobs.

All this great stuff is just gonna fall out of the sky like manna from heaven.

And it will be made by Mexicans or aliens or the Underpants Gnomes...or something.

This is gong to get real interesting very soon, as more of the nation's workforce "goes Galt".

U.S. Hospitals Pushed to Financial Ruin as Nurses Quit During Pandemic

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/othe...sse/ar-AAS1JqW

[Invisible Man]

The Mexicans are just gonna give you an F250?

That is a hell of a deal.

Presumably, it will cost less for them to make it than it will for Americans.

I'm still trying to understand how that's bad for America.

Is this based on some kind of outlook where jobs are a scarce resource that are an end unto itself, and if somebody else does more work that leaves less work to be done by us, and we then suffer for the lack of work for us to do?

I gather you would have been a signer of Bastiat's candlemakers' petition too?
http://bastiat.org/en/petition.html

Edit: Let's say it was like you just said though. Suppose "the Mexicans" were just going to give us F-250s. Since you put it that way, do I infer correctly that you would agree that that would make America better off, and not worse off if they did that? Because if you concede that, then your entire case in the OP of saying this is somehow putting America last is defeated.

[tod evans]

The tenured academic who never held down an honest job to feed his family tells us we're better off with no jobs.

At some point the man whose family is starving takes up arms.

Some will band together, others will choose to fight alone.

Animus will extend to those who promote enriching others as well as those who actually do enrich others.

History does repeat itself no matter how much talking/justifying/ explaining takes place.

[Anti Globalist]

I suspect we will be seeing a lot of businesses move to Mexico.

[RJB]

At some point the man whose family is starving takes up arms.

Some will band together, others will choose to fight alone.

Animus will extend to those who promote enriching others as well as those who actually do enrich others.

History does repeat itself no matter how much talking/justifying/ explaining takes place.

This nation is so full of upper middle class, living in ivory towers seperated from the realities. Trust funders, academics, bureaucrats, tax leaches, etc. who live on some income with no concept of how $#@!ed up it is for the average person to actually earn a living these days. They tell you to enjoy the time off of work during the pandemic. They tell you to shrug off watching millions of jobs leave the state-- with no concept that those working those jobs pay for their cushy lifestyle. They tell you to enjoy not having to work as hard as we import lower wage immigrants. They tell you all this from the luxury of their gated community as if when the whole thing crashes it will simply be entertaining TV.

And then we have someone in this thread saying how great auto plants leaving because no one has to work. Uh, yeah, those jobless will turn their sites on the ivory towers of their out of touch neighbors.

[tod evans]

Presumably, it will cost less for them to make it than it will for Americans.

I'm still trying to understand how that's bad for America.

Is this based on some kind of outlook where jobs are a scarce resource that are an end unto itself, and if somebody else does more work that leaves less work to be done by us, and we then suffer for the lack of work for us to do?

I gather you would have been a signer of Bastiat's candlemakers' petition too?
http://bastiat.org/en/petition.html

Edit: Let's say it was like you just said though. Suppose "the Mexicans" were just going to give us F-250s. Since you put it that way, do I infer correctly that you would agree that that would make America better off, and not worse off if they did that? Because if you concede that, then your entire case in the OP of saying this is somehow putting America last is defeated.

By that same token every suit-n-tie "job" can now be performed by a computer.

It's in the best interest of America that the Hoi-Polloi that shuffle paper and expound opinions be put out of "work" so the server farms can perform the tasks they used to do more efficiently. There will be no need for Teslas or double soy lattes or beard-butter or Birkenstocks because all those useless eaters will have to move on.

[ClaytonB]

Big Bro has certainly already nationalized the form and function of new vehicles.

Like you said, might as well go all the way.

A People's Car, so to speak.

You nailed it. Everybody keeps saying "aerodynamics"... get real, the auto industry is regulated out the wazoo... aerodynamics might explain why they all converge on the same shape given the regulations, but it doesn't explain the regulations themselves, which have the preponderance of impact on car design.





Source

[RJB]

All this great stuff is just gonna fall out of the sky like manna from heaven.

And it will be made by Mexicans or aliens or the Underpants Gnomes...or something.

This is gong to get real interesting very soon, as more of the nation's workforce "goes Galt".

U.S. Hospitals Pushed to Financial Ruin as Nurses Quit During Pandemic

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/othe...sse/ar-AAS1JqW

Learn to code AF.

[Invisible Man]

By that same token every suit-n-tie "job" can now be performed by a computer.

It's in the best interest of America that the Hoi-Polloi that shuffle paper and expound opinions be put out of "work" so the server farms can perform the tasks they used to do more efficiently. There will be no need for Teslas or double soy lattes or beard-butter or Birkenstocks because all those useless eaters will have to move on.

If what you're saying is true, and we can have all of our goods and services provided to us by automation without requiring labor from ourselves to make it, then yes, I don't see any way to conceive of that scenario as bad for the economy.

[tod evans]

If what you're saying is true, and we can have all of our goods and services provided to us by automation without requiring labor from ourselves to make it, then yes, I don't see any way to conceive of that scenario as bad for the economy.

We'll still need labor (service) to produce goods. What isn't needed is management/ banking/ etc. The suit-n-tie brigade that produces nothing.

Numbers can be shuffled by 'puter faster and more accurately, decisions can be made without human emotion or attitude.

The idea that labor can be shopped to low-bidder while management can't is foolish.

Service to produce goods is one thing, service to produce data or regulate is another.

Government and business are running into a conundrum, that being how to keep themselves on their plateau while convincing everyone else that it's in their best interest to share their piece of the pie.

The hungry former workers will eat, even the Commies know that much

[Invisible Man]

We'll still need labor (service) to produce goods. What isn't needed is management/ banking/ etc. The suit-n-tie brigade that produces nothing.

Numbers can be shuffled by 'puter faster and more accurately, decisions can be made without human emotion or attitude.

The idea that labor can be shopped to low-bidder while management can't is foolish.

Service to produce goods is one thing, service to produce data or regulate is another.

Government and business are running into a conundrum, that being how to keep themselves on their plateau while convincing everyone else that it's in their best interest to share their piece of the pie.

The hungry former workers will eat, even the Commies know that much

Then there you have it. You and all the blue collar workers can put all the big corporations out of business by making the same stuff cheaper by eliminating all that wasted labor by the suits.

I think your reference to "[t]he idea that labor can be shopped to low-bidder while management can't" is a straw man. I have never encountered that idea anywhere.

But what's relevant to this discussion is that we agree that shopping labor, regardless what that labor entail, be it management or anything else, to the lowest bidder, including bidders in other countries and automation, is good for the economy.

[tod evans]

Then there you have it. You and all the blue collar workers can put all the big corporations out of business by making the same stuff cheaper by eliminating all that wasted labor by the suits.

I think your reference to "[t]he idea that labor can be shopped to low-bidder while management can't" is a straw man. I have never encountered that idea anywhere.

But what's relevant to this discussion is that we agree that shopping labor, regardless what that labor entail, be it management or anything else, to the lowest bidder, including bidders in other countries and automation, is good for the economy.

We absolutely do not agree on this.

The economy is put in jeopardy every time another player is permitted influence.

DC/Wall Street is to far away to run the economy here in podunk. Hell the state capitol is too far removed.

No, I don't agree that spreading the breadth and width of influence is good for the economy unless the world economy is your concern.

These United States have divergent interests at this point and are not economically stable and the world knows it, diversifying further is asking for trouble.

[Snowball]

We absolutely do not agree on this.

The economy is put in jeopardy every time another player is permitted influence.

DC/Wall Street is to far away to run the economy here in podunk. Hell the state capitol is too far removed.

No, I don't agree that spreading the breadth and width of influence is good for the economy unless the world economy is your concern.

These United States have divergent interests at this point and are not economically stable and the world knows it, diversifying further is asking for trouble.

Economy is a word they use to manipulate government for their own purposes. They use it to bully politicians, sow fear among the populace and abscond with billions on the financial exchanges. They know full well that capitalism as we had experienced it is over. It is finished. All they care about now is preserving ALL that they have obtained, so it cannot be lost to them, so that it can be passed on, not only to their progeny but to their foundations, so that power is concentrated. Joseph Schumpeter outlined all this 70 years ago.

If Americans don't like it, they can get stuffed. Suckers. They have embraced their own jailers, with their avarice and selfishness.
The wise have turned their vices against them.

[oyarde]

Presumably, it will cost less for them to make it than it will for Americans.

I'm still trying to understand how that's bad for America.

Is this based on some kind of outlook where jobs are a scarce resource that are an end unto itself, and if somebody else does more work that leaves less work to be done by us, and we then suffer for the lack of work for us to do?

I gather you would have been a signer of Bastiat's candlemakers' petition too?
http://bastiat.org/en/petition.html

Edit: Let's say it was like you just said though. Suppose "the Mexicans" were just going to give us F-250s. Since you put it that way, do I infer correctly that you would agree that that would make America better off, and not worse off if they did that? Because if you concede that, then your entire case in the OP of saying this is somehow putting America last is defeated.

The company itself has not stated there would be any cost savings . They have been careful not to give any reasoning. One thing we do know is it would increase transportation costs a good deal which could offset labor savings . They have been holding meetings on it with the union daily .They will be violating a current contract to do so . My guess is future tax reasons. This has been in the works under consideration since about a month after biden-schumer- pelosi took control . Ford is currently under a 2019 contract for a new product , 1400 jobs and 900 million investment ( Ohio ) , part of a 6 billion investment at 19 US facilities ( contrat with autoworkers union ). This plant in Ohio makes F 350, F 450 , F 550 supers and Med duty F 650 and 750's . America last seems resonable to me based on high taxes.

[Invisible Man]

diversifying further is asking for trouble.

American companies outsourcing manufacturing to other countries so as to have each country focus more on the products or aspects of production that they have comparative advantages in is the opposite of diversifying.

[Invisible Man]

My guess is future tax reasons.

Here's to hoping.

[Snowball]

Oyarde, you are not considering the fact that Ford parts have been produced in Mexico for decades already.

[oyarde]

Oyarde, you are not considering the fact that Ford parts have been produced in Mexico for decades already.

Everybody produces parts everywhere . As an example GM used to make door panels near here then send them to assembly plants in Canada and Texas daily. Thats costs a lot of money .

[oyarde]

The costs of these particular products are going to be out of range for 9 tenths of the population anyway. I would assume only companies will be buying electric trucks and 350 to 750's. Or people who can deduct the purchases. Probably nothing going to be under 100k.

[oyarde]

The purchaeses of a 100K truck would include an added 7k in sales tax here.

[tod evans]

American companies outsourcing manufacturing to other countries so as to have each country focus more on the products or aspects of production that they have comparative advantages in is the opposite of diversifying.

Obviously we view diversifying differently.

Diversity in the supply chain ties companies to other nations politics. As we're seeing...

ie; trouble.

[Anti Federalist]

Learn to code AF.

To hell with that...I've put my skills on the bench.

I'll go run parts for the local NAPA store.

[oyarde]

Ideally it would be nice if Ford was building all these trucks here with parts made here by people employed here . Reallity is govt has meddled in business to the point everything becomes very complicated. First thing I would do to encourage more mnfg is gut govt regulations.

[Anti Federalist]

Edit: Let's say it was like you just said though. Suppose "the Mexicans" were just going to give us F-250s. Since you put it that way, do I infer correctly that you would agree that that would make America better off, and not worse off if they did that? Because if you concede that, then your entire case in the OP of saying this is somehow putting America last is defeated.

Are people better off learning a skill, working and saving and delaying gratification until they can purchase property they need or desire?

Or are they better off having what they need handed to them with no real effort on their part, due to policies of monetary tomfuckery and government chicanery?