Pros and Cons for Term Limits

[Deborah K]

I know this subject comes up periodically, but I think it may be time to revisit term limits for Congress. I'm interested in hearing the opinions of others on this topic. Dr. Paul was for it. And, it would help lesson the control multi-national corporations have on government by not allowing politicians to become entrenched, and therefore, controllable. I think it would be a lot harder to buy politicians if they knew they couldn't make a career out of being one.

What say you?

[specsaregood]

I'm for it; but its not worth talking about since you would have to get congress to vote for it and term limit themselves. which means you'd already have a noncorrupt bunch of politicians elected and it wouldn't be necessary. putting it in at the state level wont even work since the courts have ruled that the states cant put such limits on federal offices...

[donnay]

Pro would be; no one stays in for life. Congress has the finally say.

[Deborah K]

How do we get Congress to pass it? Let me put the question to you this way: If someone was willing to pay you one million dollars to come up with a strategy that would coerce Congress into amending the Constitution to add term limits, would you accept the challenge? And if so, explain how you would do it.

I would think public pressure would have to be where we would start. So, first and foremost, you'd have to have a PR campaign. Then, you'd have to get candidates running for office behind it, as well as already elected officials (not planning to run for Prez).

[tod evans]

How do we get Congress to pass it?

There is only one way left to change this government, writing legislation hasn't worked, voting hasn't worked, protesting hasn't worked..

Asking congress to limit itself in any way is akin to asking the police to police the police...

You'll get charged top dollar and nothing will change.

[specsaregood]

I would think public pressure would have to be where we would start. So, first and foremost, you'd have to have a PR campaign. Then, you'd have to get candidates running for office behind it, as well as already elected officials (not planning to run for Prez).

The republicans used it in '94 as part of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_with_America

of course, they didnt' pass it; but it helped em get elected.

[donnay]

How do we get Congress to pass it? Let me put the question to you this way: If someone was willing to pay you one million dollars to come up with a strategy that would coerce Congress into amending the Constitution to add term limits, would you accept the challenge? And if so, explain how you would do it.

I would think public pressure would have to be where we would start. So, first and foremost, you'd have to have a PR campaign. Then, you'd have to get candidates running for office behind it, as well as already elected officials (not planning to run for Prez).

Public pressure is definitely a good start. I believe most of the liberty candidates would agree to term limits.

[acptulsa]

I have mixed feelings about term limits.

On the one hand, there are a lot of excellent reasons to favor term limits:



On the other, I can also come up with a few much better reasons to oppose them...

[Deborah K]

There is only one way left to change this government, writing legislation hasn't worked, voting hasn't worked, protesting hasn't worked..

Asking congress to limit itself in any way is akin to asking the police to police the police...

You'll get charged top dollar and nothing will change.

I don't agree. I think it's worth a try to apply public pressure on these numbskulls. I've always believed that fighting in this movement involves a multipronged approach. It's not enough to campaign for someone, we need to make fundamental changes. We need to expose the politicians, lobbyists, and special interests who are against term limits. We can use Jerry Doyle, Pete Santilli, Fox News, The Blaze, Drudge Report, and many others to disseminate, en masse, the exposé.

[Deborah K]

Tulsa, I think term limits would give us many more Ron Pauls. If people go in knowing their time is limited, they are more likely to be people with honorable intentions.

[Zippyjuan]

Ron Paul would have been forced from the scene much sooner if there were term limits.

Term limits make politians even less responsible to the people who elect them and more responsible to the special interests which can help them get their job. It gives much more power to the lobbyists and unelected career civil servants who would really be running things while elected officials have a shorter time to grab whatever they can for themselves.

[tod evans]

I don't agree. I think it's worth a try to apply public pressure on these numbskulls.

That's the beauty of the "liberty" idea....We don't have to agree on the method or execution, heck we don't really have to agree on the desired result as long as we can agree that what we have isn't working for either of us..

[acptulsa]

Ron Paul would have been forced from the scene much sooner if there were term limits.

So would Robert Byrd, LBJ, John McCain, Sheila Jackson Lee, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid...

And Deborah has a point. Several of them might have looked at the fact that they couldn't make a career of it and gotten jobs instead.

Care to address that, or are we just doing the drive-by 'quip 'n' run' today?

Term limits make politians even less responsible to the people who elect them and more responsible to the special interests which can help them get their job. It gives much more power to the lobbyists and unelected career civil servants who would really be running things while elected officials have a shorter time to grab whatever they can for themselves.

Ah, you were editing.

Well, you've described the situation exactly as it exists today, but with a significant exception: With term limits there's nothing people have to lose by taking their brib--er, I mean campaign contributions and then breaking their promises to them, once in office, rather than breaking their promises to us.

[William Tell]

Some States have term limits for State offices, they don't have anymore liberty on average. Getting elected takes money and work, the establishment would still beat us all the time, just like they do in term limit States.

What we need to do is: A: get voters to vote over issues, and record, not cheap slogans and who's material they have seen. And B: Get enough liberty people involved locally as volunteers to nullify the Establishments money.

Term limits is a 'silver bullet' solution that will fix nothing, our Liberty incumbents win their reelection too. Take a guy like Jonathan Stickland, he puts his live on hold for about a year. Knocks on thousands of doors and WINS. YEAH! What if he was only allowed to serve one 2 year term? Now after he retires, you need to find another young liberty guy with Identical principles to put HIS life on hold.

[Deborah K]

Ron Paul would have been forced from the scene much sooner if there were term limits.

Term limits make politians even less responsible to the people who elect them and more responsible to the special interests which can help them get their job. It gives much more power to the lobbyists and unelected career civil servants who would really be running things while elected officials have a shorter time to grab whatever they can for themselves.

Is this your opinion? Or do you have something to back this up? Can you imagine if there were no term limits on the Presidency?

[William Tell]

Tulsa, I think term limits would give us many more Ron Pauls. If people go in knowing their time is limited, they are more likely to be people with honorable intentions.

No, it takes hundreds of thousands of dollars to run a Congressional campaign. Most of us are broke.

[Deborah K]

Some States have term limits for State offices, they don't have anymore liberty on average. Getting elected takes money and work, the establishment would still beat us all the time, just like they do in term limit States.

What we need to do is: A: get voters to vote over issues, and record, not cheap slogans and who's material they have seen. And B: Get enough liberty people involved locally as volunteers to nullify the Establishments money.

Term limits is a 'silver bullet' solution that will fix nothing, our Liberty incumbents win their reelection too. Take a guy like Jonathan Stickland, he puts his live on hold for about a year. Knocks on thousands of doors and WINS. YEAH! What if he was only allowed to serve one 2 year term? Now after he retires, you need to find another young liberty guy with Identical principles to put HIS life on hold.

Why set the limits so low? How about Representatives get 6 terms, and Senators get 2?

[Deborah K]

No, it takes hundreds of thousands of dollars to run a Congressional campaign. Most of us are broke.

There's a possibility that could change with term limits via more news coverage, more debates, less need for political ads.

[William Tell]

Why set the limits so low? How about Representatives get 6 terms, and Senators get 2?

Whatever you like I don't see the point in that though.

[William Tell]

There's a possibility that could change with term limits via more news coverage, more debates, less need for political ads.

No chance at all, there would be less coverage. And you still need to get your message out to all the voters.
Again, look at the States that do have term limits.

[Zippyjuan]

There's a possibility that could change with term limits via more news coverage, more debates, less need for political ads.

How would term limits change the number of political ads or increase media coverage?

[Deborah K]

Whatever you like I don't see the point in that though.

Do you not agree that putting term limits on the Presidency after FDR died was a good thing?

[Zippyjuan]

Is this your opinion? Or do you have something to back this up? Can you imagine if there were no term limits on the Presidency?

It takes time to "learn the ropes" on how to get things done in Washington. Those who spend all their time there- the lobbyists and the career government workers- will have that info and be able to use it while the rapidly turning over elected officials won't for a while into their terms. That gives them the real power. They will end up writing all the laws- in ways which of course will benefit themselves.

[Deborah K]

How would term limits change the number of political ads or increase media coverage?

I'm just thinking it might evolve into that kind of situation since there would be so many more candidates in the pool, not all of which would be millionaires, but everyday people, making it more of a human interest story. I could see it trending toward that. Or is that too Pollyanaish?

[Deborah K]

It takes time to "learn the ropes" on how to get things done in Washington. Those who spend all their time there- the lobbyists and the career government workers- will have that info and be able to use it while the rapidly turning over elected officials won't for a while into their terms. That gives them the real power. They will end up writing all the laws- in ways which of course will benefit themselves.

Not if people run on Ron's platform! That man never took a dime from those creeps.

[Zippyjuan]

Not if people run on Ron's platform! That man never took a dime for those creeps.

Unfortunately Ron is an uncommon man.

[William Tell]

Do you not agree that putting term limits on the Presidency after FDR died was a good thing?

I dunno, we sure have had a buttload of liberty presidents since then, haven't we Deborah K?
Besides it's a different ball game, IMHO. I am not for repealing presidential term limits, now that we have them. But they did not fix anything.

[Deborah K]

No chance at all, there would be less coverage. And you still need to get your message out to all the voters.
Again, look at the States that do have term limits.

Is there evidence that those states are worse off than before? Do you know?

[Deborah K]

I dunno, we sure have had a buttload of liberty presidents since then, haven't we Deborah K?
Besides it's a different ball game, IMHO. I am not for repealing presidential term limits, now that we have them. But they did not fix anything.

I disagree. And our movement has never been as strong as it is now. For the first time, we have a Presidential candidate (potentially), who is 'electable' and acceptable to the mainstream.

[William Tell]

Is there evidence that those states are worse off than before? Do you know?

I would be lying if I said I knew for sure. But I can assure you, Texas would be worse off if the last group of good State Reps were term limited out. They are giving the next batch a hand up, Liberty candidates are on average the youngest. I want them all to stick around. The People are the term limits, unfortunately we are pathetic. Nobody trusts politicians, except for their own Congressman who sends them baby kissing posters. Many liberty minded folks don't even vote.