Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 40

Thread: Third-party support surging

  1. #1

    Third-party support surging

    Not good news for neocons/dronegansta/war criminals enabler/ 2-party scams lobbies:




    July 31, 2016, 03:22 pm
    Third-party support surging
    By Ben Kamisar

    Voters now confronted with the choice between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are making something abundantly clear: they want another option.
    Surveys over the last six weeks have found a steady but noticeable jump in support for third-party candidates. The biggest beneficiary has been Libertarian Gary Johnson, who has shot up from 4.5 percent to 7.2 percent in RealClearPolitics polling averages. Green Party candidate Jill Stein has also seen an uptick since June — from 2.5 percent to 3.5 percent.

    The surge in support for a third-party candidate is adding a new element of unpredictability into the presidential race. Should voters opt for a third-party candidate in large numbers, it could potentially tip the scales in crucial battleground states.Pollsters and political scientists say the deep malcontent with Clinton and Trump should give both candidates pause.
    “The fact that we have two major party candidates who are enormously disliked by the electorate, enormously and equally disliked, creates the opportunity for the minor party candidates to do better than they would in other presidential elections,” said Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll.
    “The minor party candidates can have great influence if the final race is very close.”
    Pollsters contacted by The Hill predicted that many of the voters now leaning toward a third-party candidate would eventually side with Trump or Clinton by Election Day.
    But they caution that the volatility of the race and the low favorability ratings for both candidates mean anything is possible.
    So far, it’s unclear whether Trump or Clinton will benefit most from a strong third-party vote.
    There are voters in each party who feel spurned by their party's ticket — Republicans who refuse to side with Trump, and Bernie Sanders supporters who feel their candidate did not get a fair shake in the Democratic primary.
    Conventional wisdom has held that votes for the Libertarian ticket would hurt Republicans, while Green Party votes would do damage to the Democrats.
    That dynamic is borne out by recent polling. A CNN survey released last week found that 17 percent of Republican voters who didn’t back Trump in the primary now support Johnson, while only 4 percent of Democrats disgruntled with Clinton supported him. Stein, meanwhile, took 6 percent support among voters who backed Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primaries.
    Monmouth’s poll from the start of the GOP convention also found Johnson pulling more from conservative voters than from liberals, while the reverse held true for Stein.


    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...upport-surging


    Could this be the historic year when a woman candidate for Presidency becomes the real possibility?



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    This is what it's all about for libertarians at this point.

    The Presidency was lost on February 3rd when Rand dropped.

    From that moment, it was 100% certain that a criminal or a retard (retarded criminal?) was going to be the next President.

    Now, however, the question is, how much can we get?

    If we get 5%, automatic ballot access.

    ...that's very good.

    But, if we win a state....

    ...everything changes.

  4. #3

    Third-Party Support SURGING

    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...upport-surging

    Voters now confronted with the choice between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are making something abundantly clear: they want another option.
    Surveys over the last six weeks have found a steady but noticeable jump in support for third-party candidates. The biggest beneficiary has been Libertarian Gary Johnson, who has shot up from 4.5 percent to 7.2 percent in RealClearPolitics polling averages. Green Party candidate Jill Stein has also seen an uptick since June — from 2.5 percent to 3.5 percent.
    The surge in support for a third-party candidate is adding a new element of unpredictability into the presidential race. Should voters opt for a third-party candidate in large numbers, it could potentially tip the scales in crucial battleground states.Pollsters and political scientists say the deep malcontent with Clinton and Trump should give both candidates pause.
    “The fact that we have two major party candidates who are enormously disliked by the electorate, enormously and equally disliked, creates the opportunity for the minor party candidates to do better than they would in other presidential elections,” said Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll.

    “The minor party candidates can have great influence if the final race is very close.”
    Pollsters contacted by The Hill predicted that many of the voters now leaning toward a third-party candidate would eventually side with Trump or Clinton by Election Day.
    But they caution that the volatility of the race and the low favorability ratings for both candidates mean anything is possible.
    So far, it’s unclear whether Trump or Clinton will benefit most from a strong third-party vote.

    There are voters in each party who feel spurned by their party's ticket — Republicans who refuse to side with Trump, and Bernie Sanders supporters who feel their candidate did not get a fair shake in the Democratic primary.

    Conventional wisdom has held that votes for the Libertarian ticket would hurt Republicans, while Green Party votes would do damage to the Democrats.

    That dynamic is borne out by recent polling. A CNN survey released last week found that 17 percent of Republican voters who didn’t back Trump in the primary now support Johnson, while only 4 percent of Democrats disgruntled with Clinton supported him. Stein, meanwhile, took 6 percent support among voters who backed Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primaries.
    Monmouth’s poll from the start of the GOP convention also found Johnson pulling more from conservative voters than from liberals, while the reverse held true for Stein.
    But the numbers are far from cut-and-dry. Quinnipiac’s recent batch of swing state polls found that Trump’s standing in the race against Clinton improved slightly when all four candidates were included.
    Patrick Murray, the Monmouth University pollster who was the first to put Johnson on a national poll, said that he doesn’t think voters are viewing third-party support as an ideological choice.
    Johnson has received significantly more media coverage than Stein, last week taking to cable news to tout the potential endorsement of 2012 GOP nominee Mitt Romney. Murray and other pollsters believe that he may be seen as the de-facto third-party candidate for those looking to lodge a protest vote.
    “For those who really feel they cannot vote for either of the two major party nominees,
    Johnson is nominally the most visible alternative
    ,” Murray said.

    “So people are just traveling there without thinking of ideology.”
    Even with the uptick in the polls, most experts believe Johnson won't make the debate stage. He’d have to significantly up his average to 15 percent to qualify for the first general election debate in September.
    But even if he falls short, third-party candidates have roiled election results winning far less of the vote share.
    Ralph Nader’s “2.5 percent in Florida was almost certainly the deciding factor” in the 2000 general election, Murray noted.
    “This is why the national polling isn’t all that important anyways, it’s state by state, how close are these states, what are these candidates doing, and are they polling disproportionately in the state?”

    Johnson and Stein will likely perform better in some heavily partisan states where voters don’t feel that their vote will actually matter, but Johnson specifically is showing traction in some closer ones.
    Utah is fertile ground for Johnson right now, as an internal poll from Republican Rep. Mia Love’s campaign found him just 3 points behind Trump and 1 point behind Clinton, according to the Salt Lake Tribune.

    And Johnson has scored in the high single digits in polls of Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania while netting 10 percent in New Hampshire, according to recent Quinnipiac figures. And out of the swing states in the 2012 election where the final margin was within 7 percent, Johnson is pulling 4 percent in the Monmouth surveys.
    That won’t be enough support to win the election, but it could be enough to tilt the scales.
    As the race enters the home stretch, pollsters will be watching closely to see whether the third-party vote holds.
    “The question is, can they bring themselves to vote for a campaign only for the purposes of protesting the ticket?” Brandon Rottinghaus, a University of Houston political scientist.
    “You are going to look at their platforms and you’ll say, ‘This doesn’t match me at all.



    Can I bring myself to do this simply out of spite?’ ”





    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  5. #4
    So vote for the retard, Johnson. Hell yeah! A real win for liberty.


    ================
    Gary Johnson supports the Trans Pacific Partnership. That makes him a traitor.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    So vote for the retard, Johnson. Hell yeah! A real win for liberty.


    ================
    Gary Johnson supports the Trans Pacific Partnership. That makes him a traitor.
    Where is your educated argument? The one you always call for regarding Trump?
    There is no spoon.

  7. #6
    Well. I certainly understand the protest vote. We saw record numbers during the 2014 Mid-Term elections that support this trend. If I'm going to vote in protest, though, I'd tend to do so in Liberty and in favor of the more principled candidate. And that would be the Constitution Party Candidate, Darrell Castle. Not Johnson.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 07-31-2016 at 10:28 PM.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Well. I certainly understand the protest vote. We saw record numbers during the 2014 Mid-Term elections that support this trend. If I'm going to vote in protest, though, I'd tend to do so in Liberty and in favor of the more principled candidate. And that would be the Constitution Party Candidate, Darrell Castle. Not Johnson.
    well thanks for pissing on my cheerios.

    i'm just not sure why you'd waste your vote by voting for Castle though. that's a vote for Clinton! and don't forget that this is the most important election of your lifetime.

    i'm joking. i'm trying to get folks to vote 3rd by telling them that if they don't - they are endorsing war. if they do, they favor peace. very much hoping we can get Johnson on a stage with those republicratic bumblefucks.
    Seattle Sounders 2016 MLS Cup Champions 2019 MLS Cup Champions 2022 CONCACAF Champions League - and the [un]official football club of RPF

    just a libertarian - no caucus

  9. #8
    Johnson may be too extreme libertarian for most people though
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Darrell Castle.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  12. #10
    the key number is 15% by Sept so Johnson (or Stein) get debate status. even though I lean Trump I would love to see Johnson in the debates, and even win a state

  13. #11
    Darrell Castle is awesome. He's a great option for principled voters.

    Strategically, I hope the protest vote goes to the LP. A vote for Castle is probably more likely to take from trump. A vote for Johnson has been repeatedly shown to be more likely to take from Clinton, while it would weaken the republicrat mandate just that bit and buttress third party support.
    Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018

  14. #12
    ...
    Last edited by notsure; 08-01-2016 at 06:48 AM.
    RVO˩UTION

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Johnson may be too extreme libertarian for most people though
    He has anarchy written all over him.
    "The Patriarch"

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Johnson may be too extreme libertarian for most people though
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    He has anarchy written all over him.
    Good thing he has Weld to balance the ticket.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Good thing he has Weld to balance the ticket.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Suzanimal again.
    ///
    "The Patriarch"

  18. #16
    How ironic is it that the first time the LP actually has a shot in the debates, real libertarians are fleeing the ticket as quickly as possible?

    I suppose this was bound to happen. In order to make the LP palatable to the GOP and Dem faithful, they had to pick a Gary Johnson-type that pisses us off. <great>

    So the LP becomes an alternative party that really isn't even an alternative anymore. Oh well, maybe if they can raise their cred a little, a real liberty candidate will be able to take the reins in a future election. I suppose it could help in lower level offices as well.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    So vote for the retard, Johnson. Hell yeah! A real win for liberty.
    And here we go again, with the Trump supporter criticizing Johnson...

    (FYI, we know why you're doing this and it has nothing to do with libertarian principles.)
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    He has anarchy written all over him.
    Forcing bakers to bake gay/nazi wedding cakes, TPP, Kony 2012; he's a real "rebel without a cause".
    RVO˩UTION

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    A vote for Johnson has been repeatedly shown to be more likely to take from Clinton [...]
    That claim is contradicted by the OP article:
    Conventional wisdom has held that votes for the Libertarian ticket would hurt Republicans, while Green Party votes would do damage to the Democrats. That dynamic is borne out by recent polling. A CNN survey released last week found that 17 percent of Republican voters who didn’t back Trump in the primary now support Johnson, while only 4 percent of Democrats disgruntled with Clinton supported him.
    Are there other credible polls indicating the reverse dynamic?
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Johnson may be too extreme libertarian for most people though
    He's not a libertarian.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Oh well, maybe if they can raise their cred a little
    What cred? They were supposed to come up with good candidates. Epic fail, this time.

    For true libertarians, the only option looks to be Castle, even if it's a write in.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    He's not a libertarian.
    That's why he picked Bill Weld. He's THE Libertarian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    That's why he picked Bill Weld. He's THE Libertarian.
    The ORIGINAL libertarian.

    Or, no, wait ... the ORIGINAL Libertarian ... ?

    (These things are so confusing ...)

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    That's why he picked Bill Weld. He's THE Libertarian.
    No doubt.

    What really bothers me is that there are people who think this is okay. They're like 90% libertarian. That's like saying a hamburger is 90% beef. What's the other 10%. If it's dog poop, guess what? You have yourself a poopburger.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    No doubt.

    What really bothers me is that there are people who think this is okay. They're like 90% libertarian. That's like saying a hamburger is 90% beef. What's the other 10%. If it's dog poop, guess what? You have yourself a poopburger.
    Agreed. I think the hope is that if America tries a poopburger with a little less poop, they may want to try another one in the future. And that future burger may have even less poop. (Unfortunately, America has a pretty big appetite for poopburgers. They've been raised on them for generations.)
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Agreed. I think the hope is that if America tries a poopburger with a little less poop, they may want to try another one in the future. And that future burger may have even less poop. (Unfortunately, America has a pretty big appetite for poopburgers. They've been raised on them for generations.)
    That sounds very desperate.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    That sounds very desperate.
    I think that's the LP slogan.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  32. #28
    Johnson has been in the 9-13% range in 3 way polling over the last 3 months. He's going to have to do something more than what he has been doing because the numbers are pretty much flat lining in that range.

    Jill Stein is also starting to pick up some momentum after the e-mail shenanigans and the Bernie debacle, which may end up hurting Johnson's numbers.

    I'm beginning to think GJ isn't going to make the debates unless he changes strategy to get more people's attention and he does so immediately. Doing interviews where he comes across as awkward and stuttering and doesn't get the message out in a clean and concise way, is not helping him gain ground.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    No doubt.

    What really bothers me is that there are people who think this is okay. They're like 90% libertarian. That's like saying a hamburger is 90% beef. What's the other 10%. If it's dog poop, guess what? You have yourself a poopburger.
    You see the glass half empty don't you?

    A presidential candidate that is 90% good and you aren't satisfied? People like you will achieve nothing.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    So vote for the retard, Johnson. Hell yeah! A real win for liberty.


    ================
    Gary Johnson supports the Trans Pacific Partnership. That makes him a traitor.

    To be clear, I'm by no means suggesting anyone should support Johnson and I'm not convinced about him either.

    Will be finding out more about Jill Stein, the historic first woman candidate of GP that media is doing balckout of.

    BTW, 3rd party spike seems to be being driven by anti-war Bernie supporters and seems to be hurting neocon's preferred puppet SWC Hillary most. This is a good development for many reasons overall.



Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •