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Thread: 500 million lines of code worth of failure

  1. #1

    500 million lines of code worth of failure

    LOL


    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...andrew-johnson

    Obamacare’s online exchanges have been riddled with problems since they came online three weeks ago, and those issues may continue for at least the next few weeks. Contractors said fixing the problems by the November 1 deadline set by the administration would be “unrealistic,” according to the New York Times.

    From the sluggish websites to garbled enrollment information, the flaws require the extensive rewriting of code: “One specialist said that as many as five million lines of software code may need to be rewritten before the Web site runs properly,” the Times reports — that’s out of a total of approximately 500 million lines of code, according to another expert.

    Others experts warned that some of the website’s problems are yet to come. One technical specialist involved in the repair effort said, “The account creation and registration problems are masking the problems that will happen later.”
    Last edited by shane77m; 10-21-2013 at 09:53 AM.
    “First of all, if you’ve got health insurance, you like your doctors, you like your plan, you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you.” Lying Sack of Crap



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  3. #2
    as a programmer, i find it extremely hard to believe that the healthcare.gov site has anything even remotely close to 500 million lines of code.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by VBRonPaulFan View Post
    as a programmer, i find it extremely hard to believe that the healthcare.gov site has anything even remotely close to 500 million lines of code.
    I suppose if you counted all of the lines of code in all of the external libraries, and all of the tools that you use, and if you also counted the number of lines of compiled code instead of the lines of the language you were actually developing in.. than you might end up at 500 million.
    If you wanted some sort of Ideological purity, you'll get none of that from me.

  5. #4
    Leave it to the gov't to find the most incompetent programmers to create this trainwreck. 3 years/634 million later...

  6. #5
    with all of that code the O-care site should be a candy store for hackers. Seems like there would be lots of security holes in it.

    garbage in garbage out
    Last edited by shane77m; 10-21-2013 at 12:04 PM.
    “First of all, if you’ve got health insurance, you like your doctors, you like your plan, you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you.” Lying Sack of Crap

  7. #6
    No doubt they just copied most of that code from pre-existing applications, and then tried to modify it. They probably don't know what is in most of the code.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
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  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    No doubt they just copied most of that code from pre-existing applications, and then tried to modify it. They probably don't know what is in most of the code.
    You have to read the code to find out whats in it.
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  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kords21 View Post
    Leave it to the gov't to find the most incompetent programmers to create this trainwreck. 3 years/634 million later...
    And it even required outsourcing the job to a foreign firm.



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  11. #9
    It's a glorified shopping cart app with 50+ sub-stores and a stringent user verification process. I don't see how this is that big of a deal let alone a 1/2 a billion dollar deal.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

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  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by VBRonPaulFan View Post
    as a programmer, i find it extremely hard to believe that the healthcare.gov site has anything even remotely close to 500 million lines of code.
    All the comment lines....lol

    // *put real code here"
    // " don't know what to code here....."
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  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    And it even required outsourcing the job to a foreign firm.
    Some woman on CNN kept saying that this wouldn't have happened if they could have used the "best and brightest", inferring that it was stupid US gov programmers that screwed it up. Of course that argument is a convenient segue to the push for immigration reform (I.e. more cheap, imported programmers for Gates, Ellison and Zuckerberg).
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by VBRonPaulFan View Post
    as a programmer, i find it extremely hard to believe that the healthcare.gov site has anything even remotely close to 500 million lines of code.
    This. 500 million lines of code? You'd be spending the evening just loading up the site. I've made computer games th at don't even have 0.01% of that.
    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

    ...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.

    How to trigger a liberal: "I didn't get vaccinated."

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    It's a glorified shopping cart app with 50+ sub-stores and a stringent user verification process. I don't see how this is that big of a deal let alone a 1/2 a billion dollar deal.
    But no screen CAPTCHA.

    This is possibly why so many "visitors" have gone to the site
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Some woman on CNN kept saying that this wouldn't have happened if they could have used the "best and brightest", inferring that it was stupid US gov programmers that screwed it up. Of course that argument is a convenient segue to the push for immigration reform (I.e. more cheap, imported programmers for Gates, Ellison and Zuckerberg).
    Probably the largest project budget in programming history and they couldn't find the 'best and brightest'? Just how many useless pigs pocketing how many millions out of this boondoggle were there?

  17. #15
    I'm a developer too. 500 million lines of code is clearly not the real number. Even a room full of monkeys can't type that fast!

    But I agree with the "tip of the iceberg" comment. Software bugs are a bit like real bugs -- for every bug you can see, rest assured there's 1,000 more in the walls...

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by libertyjam View Post
    Probably the largest project budget in programming history and they couldn't find the 'best and brightest'? Just how many useless pigs pocketing how many millions out of this boondoggle were there?
    A large portion of the budget likely had nothing to do with usability.

    It's got to look nice.
    Someone has to analyze it because documentation and websites must be written at a certain reading level.
    Someone had to proofread it because people will spell their own name incorrectly if given the chance.
    Someone had to analyze whether or not the site was upbeat enough.
    Someone had to do a study to figure out what colors to use, what font, what size font, what kind of toggles or scroll-down menus, etc..
    Someone had to hunt down the stock photos or take pictures of smiling people of sufficiently diverse ages, races, and religions to include all over the site.
    Someone had to make sure that all of these tiny things that have nothing to do with a website offering healthcare choices were totally on the up and up (even if the overall site is not).
    There had to be decisions as to hardware purchases, software, borders, alignment, etc..

    I could actually go on for pages.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by economics102 View Post
    I'm a developer too. 500 million lines of code is clearly not the real number.
    It makes sense to me for govt contract work. They must be billing per line of code!
    Last edited by specsaregood; 10-21-2013 at 05:28 PM.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by economics102 View Post
    I'm a developer too. 500 million lines of code is clearly not the real number. Even a room full of monkeys can't type that fast!

    But I agree with the "tip of the iceberg" comment. Software bugs are a bit like real bugs -- for every bug you can see, rest assured there's 1,000 more in the walls...
    If you do it the right way then there's little to no bugs. When you have 100 people working on one programming project there's going to be lots of crap left in the coding.
    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

    ...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.

    How to trigger a liberal: "I didn't get vaccinated."

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    A large portion of the budget likely had nothing to do with usability.

    It's got to look nice.
    Someone has to analyze it because documentation and websites must be written at a certain reading level.
    Someone had to proofread it because people will spell their own name incorrectly if given the chance.
    Someone had to analyze whether or not the site was upbeat enough.
    Someone had to do a study to figure out what colors to use, what font, what size font, what kind of toggles or scroll-down menus, etc..
    Someone had to hunt down the stock photos or take pictures of smiling people of sufficiently diverse ages, races, and religions to include all over the site.
    Someone had to make sure that all of these tiny things that have nothing to do with a website offering healthcare choices were totally on the up and up (even if the overall site is not).
    There had to be decisions as to hardware purchases, software, borders, alignment, etc..

    I could actually go on for pages.
    Believe me I've worked on cost + gov contract programs before, but at least for that kind of money you would at least get a fully functional helicopter or a new tank sub-system or prototype missile system that actually worked, I guess fully functional B1 bombers cost a little more.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    It makes sense to me for govt contract work. They must be billing per line of code!
    $650 M not $B.

  24. #21
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    500 million lines of code? From the same people that need 2500 pages to write a law.
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  25. #22
    Overpriced web sites and technical difficulties are muy importante $#@!.
    “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    500 million lines of code? From the same people that need 2500 pages to write a law.
    That grew to about 100,000 pages of actual legal statutes. or something like that.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Some woman on CNN kept saying that this wouldn't have happened if they could have used the "best and brightest", inferring that it was stupid US gov programmers that screwed it up. Of course that argument is a convenient segue to the push for immigration reform (I.e. more cheap, imported programmers for Gates, Ellison and Zuckerberg).
    The government programmers that have been getting paid 20-40% above their private sector counterparts? They weren't the best and brightest???
    "The journalist is one who separates the wheat from the chaff, and then prints the chaff." - Adlai Stevenson

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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by VBRonPaulFan View Post
    as a programmer, i find it extremely hard to believe that the healthcare.gov site has anything even remotely close to 500 million lines of code.
    This. There is no way that is true. Although these guys may be so bad, they probably have tons of duplicate code.
    Last edited by SilentBull; 10-21-2013 at 06:01 PM.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    It makes sense to me for govt contract work. They must be billing per line of code!
    Has anyone been foolish enough to pay per line of code since 1975?

    Quote Originally Posted by logikal View Post
    This. There is no way that is true. Although these guys may be so bad, they probably have tons of duplicate code.
    And code that would never execute under any condition. And then there is the "technique" of writing it badly on purpose such that the original programmer would be the only one that could decipher it. Excess, do nothing code. That has been popular with some imported contractors.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  31. #27
    of course it could be part of the master plan to fail. the same company is responsible for the single payer system in Canada...

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    of course it could be part of the master plan to fail. the same company is responsible for the single payer system in Canada...
    Wouldn't be surprised. Although a system built with the given circumstances is doomed to failure before it's begun.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  33. #29
    Related article:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/13/us...th-portal.html
    ...
    One person familiar with the system’s development said that the project was now roughly 70 percent of the way toward operating properly, but that predictions varied on when the remaining 30 percent would be done. “I’ve heard as little as two weeks or as much as a couple of months,” that person said. Others warned that the fixes themselves were creating new problems, and said that the full extent of the problems might not be known because so many consumers had been stymied at the first step in the application process.

    Confidential progress reports from the Health and Human Services Department show that senior officials repeatedly expressed doubts that the computer systems for the federal exchange would be ready on time, blaming delayed regulations, a lack of resources and other factors.

    Deadline after deadline was missed. The biggest contractor, CGI Federal, was awarded its $94 million contract in December 2011. But the government was so slow in issuing specifications that the firm did not start writing software code until this spring, according to people familiar with the process. As late as the last week of September, officials were still changing features of the Web site, HealthCare.gov, and debating whether consumers should be required to register and create password-protected accounts before they could shop for health plans.

    One highly unusual decision, reached early in the project, proved critical: the Medicare and Medicaid agency assumed the role of project quarterback, responsible for making sure each separately designed database and piece of software worked with the others, instead of assigning that task to a lead contractor.

    Some people intimately involved in the project seriously doubted that the agency had the in-house capability to handle such a mammoth technical task of software engineering while simultaneously supervising 55 contractors. An internal government progress report in September 2011 identified a lack of employees “to manage the multiple activities and contractors happening concurrently” as a “major risk” to the whole project.

    While some branches of the military have large software engineering departments capable of acting as the so-called system integrator, often on medium-size weapons projects, the rest of the federal government typically does not, said Stan Soloway, the president and chief executive of the Professional Services Council, which represents 350 government contractors. CGI officials have publicly said that while their company created the system’s overall software framework, the Medicare and Medicaid agency was responsible for integrating and testing all the combined components.

    By early this year, people inside and outside the federal bureaucracy were raising red flags. “We foresee a train wreck,” an insurance executive working on information technology said in a February interview. “We don’t have the I.T. specifications. The level of angst in health plans is growing by leaps and bounds. The political people in the administration do not understand how far behind they are.”

    ...
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by VBRonPaulFan View Post
    as a programmer, i find it extremely hard to believe that the healthcare.gov site has anything even remotely close to 500 million lines of code.
    That was my first thought.
    I used to work on a 20-year-old mass of legacy K&R C spaghetti - the kind of thing where very little was in a library and significant portions of it was cut-and-paste code that was developed in other files - and it may have topped the scales at 1 million lines.
    And that was everything for a proprietary flat-file database, everything for workflow on accounts, everything for generating printed letters, and everything for automated dialing.

    If it's really 500 million lines... well, guess what Barry, we don't have to keep "wishing it would fail".
    It already has.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

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