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Thread: How USA is arming Ukraine and ISIL

  1. #1

    Angry How USA is arming Ukraine and ISIL

    US is yearly giving over 10 million dollars of military aid to Croatia(212+ armored logistical vehicles, guns and now helicopters too, etc.).

    US is giving to Croatia 20+ Black Hawk helicopters and Croatia is giving its helicopters to Ukraine.

    Croatia is giving rocket launchers, grenades, cannons etc. to Saudi Arabia and Saudi Arabia is forwarding it to ISIL.

    Ship full of war equipment (27 Abrams tanks, 6 armored vehicles Bull, 27 containers full of rockets and ammunition, mobile units for telecommunications, radars etc.) from Canada was sent to Saudi Arabia. It made stop in Genoa, Italy where its "undeclared" cargo was discovered. A man that spoke English came with "papers" with declaration of previously "undeclared" cargo and with orders to allow ship to continue its voyage to Saudi Arabia.

    Over 70 planes full of weapons, including Croatian RBG-6 multiple rocket launcher-that was in test phase, were flown for Islamic fighters in Libya, Syria...

    This is done with other countries too.

    Links to texts(Croatian language):

    link1
    link2
    link3
    link4
    Last edited by Barrex; 08-16-2014 at 11:51 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by orenbus View Post
    If I had to answer this question truthfully I'd probably piss a lot of people off lol, Barrex would be a better person to ask he doesn't seem to care lol.




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  3. #2
    So is it time to revolt yet?

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  4. #3
    Not surprising. Good info.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
    James Madison

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



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  5. #4
    Not terribly surprised, but still...
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  6. #5
    So far, the US government spent $5 Billion to overthrow the Ukrainian government and install the Junta, then after creating a crisis, vote an additional $1 Billion a few months ago, then sent even more CIA and Mercs, then NATO military advisers. So how are they laundering US taxpayer money to weaponize the Ukraine? It's always weaponized covertly through proxies, eg: Qatar, UAE, House of Saud, etc. Good example overthrowing with weapons and force are like Libya and Syria. Since the US public has soured on US troops battling on foreign lands... always use the backup plans through it's proxies. NATO and Croatia have quite the relationship conducting operations to terrorize and the overthrowing of nations. This all fits their 'cookie cutter' policies with well crafted laundered money from taxpayers to weapons manufacturers, like the $1 Billion funneled from US DHS to overthrow Libya.
    The American Dream, Wake Up People, This is our country! <===click

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    June 1826



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  7. #6
    Let me add a little more to the global gameplan. Remember Erik Prince, well, guess who's in the middle east again? We covered him numerous times... the Billionaire mercenary profiteer, your troublemaker and crimes against humanity...



    Secret Desert Force Set Up by Blackwater’s Founder - World Observer Online
    Last edited by HOLLYWOOD; 08-17-2014 at 01:14 PM.
    The American Dream, Wake Up People, This is our country! <===click

    "All eyes are opened, or opening to the rights of man, let the annual return of this day(July 4th), forever refresh our recollections of these rights, and an undiminished devotion to them."
    Thomas Jefferson
    June 1826



    Rock The World!
    USAF Veteran

  8. #7
    I don't understand how they plan for Ukraine to go trough the winter.Ukraine has a infrastructure based on gas,and there is no way they could change their entire infrastructure to an electrical/wood one even if they had the money.Also even if they found someone to sell the Ukrainians gas ,the Ukrainians were not even able to pay the Russians gas at 50% of the market price let alone at full price. Donbas ( the region the war is in ) on the other hand is like 40% of their GDP.

    Unless they could win the complete war,root out all the corruption,arrest all of the political criminals and start doing some serious public work actions in the next 3 days they will turn into a Mad Max country when winter starts.All those "private battalions " and military units will either turn on Kiev or just proceed to create their own fiefdoms.

  9. #8
    I dont think US cares what happens to Ukraine as long as they get to inflict pain to Russia.
    Today I decided to get banned and spam activism on this forum...

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    Quote Originally Posted by orenbus View Post
    If I had to answer this question truthfully I'd probably piss a lot of people off lol, Barrex would be a better person to ask he doesn't seem to care lol.




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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrex View Post
    I dont think US cares what happens to Ukraine as long as they get to inflict pain to Russia.
    Well, they do care about the Ukraine, Shale exploration has already commenced, the land is ripe for the crony corporatist to rape the mand and people. Using local labor to grow themselves profits until every drop of blood and profit is squeezed out.

    Joe Biden's son Hunter has no problem moving in quickly for coin and the local oligarchs will team up with US raiders to split the spoils. At least the Ukrainian people are little better informed about the IMF, WB, EX-IM Bank, and the rest and realize any invaders means they will all be poorer than they are now. We are wirnessing before our eyes the government and it's crony corporatists moving from country to country like locus, striping it of all value and.or using it as a money laundering hub for the Fascist state partnerships under lies and false pretext.

    Amazing how ignorant Americans remain to the brutality of Washington DC inflicts overseas for the corporations and profit power partnerships. The same is going on at home, only it's the TRUSTS growing more and more powerful, less competition and choices, as government allows the monopolies to grow under the false word of 'subsidiaries'.
    The American Dream, Wake Up People, This is our country! <===click

    "All eyes are opened, or opening to the rights of man, let the annual return of this day(July 4th), forever refresh our recollections of these rights, and an undiminished devotion to them."
    Thomas Jefferson
    June 1826



    Rock The World!
    USAF Veteran

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD View Post
    Well, they do care about the Ukraine, Shale exploration has already commenced, the land is ripe for the crony corporatist to rape the mand and people. Using local labor to grow themselves profits until every drop of blood and profit is squeezed out.
    This is essentially why I had expressed interest in another thread regarding just whom exactly is advising the President with regard to Ukraine. Because out of every member of congress, on both sides of the political aisle, nobody is asking any tough questions at all. They all seem to be jumping on the old just go ahead and demonize Putin because it's the popular thing to do wagon. And it's convenient that we don't hear anything with regard to the TPP any more. At all.

    So, yeah. Who, exactly, is advising the President?
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 08-18-2014 at 10:24 PM.

  13. #11
    So we help in the genocide of Christians in Iraq. Not surprised.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulbot99 View Post
    So we help in the genocide of Christians in Iraq. Not surprised.
    Well, the regime did. There was already brutal persecution of Christians going on throughout that region and into sub-saharan Africa. The US regime seems to be hell-bent on "helping" ethnic Christians to death. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  15. #13
    French Report ISIL Leader Mossad Agent

    Simon Elliot (Elliot Shimon) aka Al-Baghdadi was born of two Jewish parents and is a Mossad agent.

    We offer below three translations that want to assert that the Caliph Al-Baghdadi is a full Mossad agent and that he was born Jewish father and mother:

    The real name of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is “Simon Elliott.”

    The so-called “Elliot” was recruited by the Israeli Mossad and was trained in espionage and psychological warfare against Arab and Islamic societies.

    This information was attributed to Edward Snowden and published by newspapers and other Web sites: the head of the “Islamic State” Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, has cooperated with the U.S. Secret Service, British and Israel to create an organization capable of attracting terrorist extremists from around the world.

    Source: Radio ajyal.com

    Another source corroborates this statement, the site Egy-press:

    With photo support, a Iranian media discovers the true identity of the Emir Daash, a trained Zionist agent.

    Iranian intelligence discovered the true and full identity of the Emir Daash, which is known under the name Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi; his real name is Elliot Shimon. Its role in Mossad secret agent in the Zionist espionage. His false name: Ibrahim ibn Awad ibn Ibrahim Al Al Badri Arradoui Hoseini.

    The plan: get into the military and civilian heart of the countries that are declared as a threat to Israel in order to destroy to facilitate thereafter, the takeover by the Zionist state on the entire area of the Middle East in order to establish Greater Israel.

  16. #14
    Why is Croatia sending arms to the Saudis? Even stranger why is Croatia, a Catholic country supporting Islam Jihadists? Is it something to do with the alliance they had with the Bosnians during the war?

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Why is Croatia sending arms to the Saudis? Even stranger why is Croatia, a Catholic country supporting Islam Jihadists? Is it something to do with the alliance they had with the Bosnians during the war?
    No.
    It is part of a deal. US will give 10 mil. worth of military aid and Croatia has to send its older stuff to country/army that US chooses. ISIL gets weapons; Croatia gets rid of its oled weapons and gets little better weapons and US arms rebels/terrorists/whomever and does little nation-building.
    Today I decided to get banned and spam activism on this forum...

    SUPPORT RANDPAULDIGITAL GRASSROOTS PROJECTS TODAY!

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    Quote Originally Posted by orenbus View Post
    If I had to answer this question truthfully I'd probably piss a lot of people off lol, Barrex would be a better person to ask he doesn't seem to care lol.


  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ctiger2 View Post

    LOL...have you read the comments at that article? There are like 5 Zionists calling anyone who believes that an anti-semite, and are pouring the "Israel is super best good" arguments.



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  20. #17
    our resident Islamic apologist insists that this information can't be true and that only a conspiracy theorist would believe it

    funny he hasn't shown up on this thread to make the point personally

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    our resident Islamic apologist insists that this information can't be true and that only a conspiracy theorist would believe it

    funny he hasn't shown up on this thread to make the point personally
    There's no evidence to suggest Saudi Arabia is "forwarding" weapons to the IS.

    Saudi Arabia is actually spearheading the fight against IS with a lot of propaganda, their grand mufti who is on the payroll for the government, as rejected IS as apostates.
    “I'm real, Ron, I'm real!” — Rick Santorum
    “Congratulations.” — Ron Paul¹

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Muwahid View Post
    There's no evidence to suggest Saudi Arabia is "forwarding" weapons to the IS.

    Saudi Arabia is actually spearheading the fight against IS with a lot of propaganda, their grand mufti who is on the payroll for the government, as rejected IS as apostates.
    This statement brought to you by the Foreign Ministry of Saudi Arabia.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    This statement brought to you by the Foreign Ministry of Saudi Arabia.
    Lol I'm not khaleeji.
    “I'm real, Ron, I'm real!” — Rick Santorum
    “Congratulations.” — Ron Paul¹

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Muwahid View Post
    Lol I'm not khaleeji.
    You may as well be. Your assertions are indistinguishable from the official line of the government of Saudi Arabia.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    You may as well be. Your assertions are indistinguishable from the official line of the government of Saudi Arabia.
    Even if that's true, how does it make it erroneous?
    “I'm real, Ron, I'm real!” — Rick Santorum
    “Congratulations.” — Ron Paul¹

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Muwahid View Post
    Even if that's true, how does it make it erroneous?
    Well, you could consider the info laid out in the OP, which is in direct contradiction to something you are curiously dead certain about.

    Your certainty on this and other points which have been shown to be false yet match up precisely to the official line of the Saudis (you figure out Qatar is funding ISIS yet?) is something of which others reading your posts ought to be informed.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    Well, you could consider the info laid out in the OP, which is in direct contradiction to something you are curiously dead certain about.

    Your certainty on this and other points which have been shown to be false yet match up precisely to the official line of the Saudis (you figure out Qatar is funding ISIS yet?) is something of which others reading your posts ought to be informed.
    So because someone thinks Saudi Arabia is funnelling US weapons to the IS, I'm obligated to believe it with no actual concrete evidence?
    “I'm real, Ron, I'm real!” — Rick Santorum
    “Congratulations.” — Ron Paul¹



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Muwahid View Post
    So because someone thinks Saudi Arabia is funnelling US weapons to the IS, I'm obligated to believe it with no actual concrete evidence?
    An honest person would say "I don't know".

    An advocate of a specific agenda like yourself comes to the conclusion that it it false unless proven otherwise. That's the position that one would expect of a defense lawyer and not of a truth-seeker.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    An honest person would say "I don't know".

    An advocate of a specific agenda like yourself comes to the conclusion that it it false unless proven otherwise. That's the position that one would expect of a defense lawyer and not of a truth-seeker.
    So are you willing to say you don't know whether or not the US is funding and training IS?
    “I'm real, Ron, I'm real!” — Rick Santorum
    “Congratulations.” — Ron Paul¹

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Muwahid View Post
    So are you willing to say you don't know whether or not the US is funding and training IS?
    I don't know, in the "hard scientific proof" sense, absolutely.

    In terms of the weight of evidence, I have found no other conclusion that better fits the evidence. I would ask you to suggest an alternate conclusion, but you've already demonstrated that evidence has no weight with you unless it matches your preconception.

    Do I know? No. Do I have an overwhelming reason to suspect it to be true? Yes, absolutely, a thousand times.

    And that is the main difference between you and I - other than your abyssal lack of confidence in your own intellectual ability made up for by arrogance and unreasonable certainty in things that no person could be certain of - I am humble enough to admit the difference between "know" and "suspect" and "believe".

    You cannot admit any of that. If it's not "proof" of a criminal-conviction standard, it didn't happen.

    Except in the real world, things that are not proven to your unreasonable satisfaction still happen anyway.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    but you've already demonstrated that evidence has no weight with you unless it matches your preconception.
    Well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black

    As far as I can tell, your reasoning is simple confirmation bias. You support an ideology which believes the US to be complicit in many terrorist attacks and the formation of terror groups, so when you see a group like IS, you will believe claims which allude to your bias, and reject anything contrary.

    This is why you readily believe claims made by those like Maliki, Hezbollah, and a German minister-- two of which are extremely bias against GCC, and one provided no evidence (and neither did the first two).

    Here's the quote regarding the German minister. "A spokeswoman for Mueller’s ministry said he had merely 'referenced press reports' and had made 'no concrete allegations'"

    Therefore the question is, why are you supporting the idea that Qatar is funding IS?

    Furthermore you had no other proof, other than the fact that the US and other countries aided some rebels, but no evidence these rebels were linked in anyway to IS. So again why are you believing they were IS troops?
    “I'm real, Ron, I'm real!” — Rick Santorum
    “Congratulations.” — Ron Paul¹

  33. #29
    A very interesting article about the Saudi perspective to the Shiite crescent moon: Syria, Iraq, Iran. Saudi Arabia has shown repeatedly its concerns about the growing of the Shiites in the Middle East, and they are well shown in this Analysis from Reuters.
    Analysis: Saudi role in Syria driven by fear of Shi'ite "full moon"
    By Angus McDowall
    RIYADH Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:04am IST

    (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia's former intelligence chief, Prince Muqrin, once told American diplomats the Middle East's so-called Shi'ite Crescent where the Muslim sect holds sway was "becoming a full moon" as Iranian influence spread.
    For the kingdom's Sunni ruling princes, that fear, revealed in a 2009 U.S. embassy cable released by WikiLeaks, now focuses on Syria. Iran-backed President Bashar al-Assad's forces are advancing with the aid of Lebanese Hezbollah Shi'ite fighters, while Riyadh supports the Sunni rebels fighting against him.

    It is a war increasingly seen in Riyadh as the fulcrum of a wider geopolitical struggle with Iran, a country it believes is radical, expansionist and militant, and a potential threat to Saudi Arabia itself.

    "If the Syrian government wins, it will prove to other Arab countries that Iran is able to protect its allies in the region. This will undermine Western alliances and Western allies," said Abdulaziz al-Sager, head of the Gulf Research Centre in Jeddah.

    Since the fall of Syrian rebel stronghold Qusair this month, there has been growing unease in Saudi Arabia's dusty capital Riyadh about the opposition's chances.

    Riyadh has been backing the mainly Sunni rebels with arms, money and political support, while Western countries, above all the United States, have given mixed signals, calling for Assad's downfall but refusing so far to send arms or use force.
    The Western position changed dramatically last week when U.S. President Barack Obama signalled that Washington would arm the rebels. But he has not yet explained how or when that might begin, and Saudis are still sceptical of Western support.

    Two months ago, Saudi Arabia expanded its own weapons supply to include anti-aircraft missiles, a Gulf source said, adding that the world's top oil exporter had started taking a more active role in the conflict.

    While more Saudi-supplied weaponry is likely headed to the Syrian opposition, there is a growing view among senior Saudis that it is no longer enough to just give the rebels arms and advice, diplomats in the Gulf say.

    Instead, the four men running Saudi Arabia's Syria policy - King Abdullah and three of his nephews - Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal, intelligence chief Prince Bandar bin Sultan and National Security Council deputy chief Prince Salman bin Sultan - want more U.S. involvement, said the sources.

    "They've been saying for a while the international community is not doing enough in Syria but they thought the opposition could manage. They are really worried about the attitude in Washington," said one diplomatic source in the Gulf.

    STEEL CLAWS

    So worrying is the situation, as seen in Riyadh, that King Abdullah cut short his summer leave in Morocco to fly home on Friday, warning of the "repercussions of events in the region". The suggestion of concern prompted a sharp drop in Saudi stocks.

    Underpinning Saudi worries is the participation in Syria of Shi'ite militia from neighbouring countries, particularly Lebanon's Hezbollah and Iraq's Abu Fadhl al-Abbas Brigade, which Prince Turki al-Faisal, another former Saudi spy chief, this week described in an interview as Iran's "steel claws".

    Influential Saudi commentator Jamal Khashoggi, in an article for newspaper al-Hayat, painted what for Saudis is a frightening picture of the Gulf after an Assad victory. Iran would threaten Saudi security and angry Sunni youth would respond by turning to al Qaeda, the militant network that is as hostile to Shi'ites as it is to the West.

    "A nightmare, don't you think?" he wrote.

    Since Hezbollah started to trumpet its involvement in Syria, Sunni clerics, including some from Saudi Arabia, have used increasingly sectarian rhetoric in their attacks on Assad.

    Yet while Saudi Arabia's official Wahhabi school of Islam sees Shi'ites as heretical, the kingdom's rulers also see sectarian language as potentially dangerous, said one diplomatic source in the Gulf.

    They believe openly sectarian rhetoric can backfire by helping mobilise Shi'ites in support of Assad as much as it fires up the rebellion. Worse still, it alienates potential backers in the West and draws Sunni militants to the conflict that can later pose a threat to Riyadh.

    Throughout the rebellion, Saudi Arabia has feared a repeat of previous conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan when large numbers of Saudis joined what they saw as a jihad only to return to the kingdom and take up arms against the government.

    Saudi officials have repeatedly warned that citizens who go to fight face prison upon their return, and have tried to funnel charitable donations for Syria through state channels to avoid cash going to militant groups.

    CONSTRAINTS

    While some Saudis, including Khashoggi, are calling for the kingdom to take tougher independent action against Assad, diplomats in the Gulf say its role is constrained by its limited capacity for sustained military action.

    Although the Saudi airforce is well equipped, it performed poorly in a brief border war with a Yemeni rebel group in 2010, U.S. embassy cables released by WikiLeaks said at the time.

    And, while Saudi forces engaged Iraq's army in the 1991 Gulf War, they fought only on Saudi soil. Striking an Arab, Muslim country is problematic for the birthplace of Islam, which aims to be perceived as neutral custodian of Islam's holy places.

    With limits on what it can do itself, it needs Washington to help fight its battles.

    "Russia remains committed. Iran remains committed. The Western allies are not committed to the degree and level you would like to see. That raises an important issue. In this way Assad can win," said Sager.

    The desire to push Washington to take a bigger role contributed to a recent flurry of diplomatic activity, as Prince Saud and Prince Bandar travelled to Paris for top-level meetings.

    However Riyadh is well aware of the difficulty of persuading Obama to be tougher while Syrian rebels remain fractured and their strongest units are so ideologically militant. That means playing down the struggle's sectarian side.

    "You need to reduce the political risk to Obama, and that means repositioning the opposition as humanitarian, rather than Islamist. It's difficult," said a diplomatic source.

    (Reporting By Angus McDowall; Additional reporting by Amena Bakr in Dubai; Editing by Peter Graff)
    http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/0...95H0EA20130618

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Muwahid View Post
    As far as I can tell...
    You can't tell - you are mentally stunted. Your domain of understanding is tightly restricted because you are in stark raving terror of the real world and must necessarily stuff everything into the comfortable box you are used to, and cloak your willful ignorance in the guise of hyperintellectualism (a compensation method if there ever was one).

    And even if you could tell, your opinion wouldn't be respectable enough to take into consideration, anyway. You are an advocate, not a truth seeker.

    And as long as you play the role of defense lawyer and not truth-seeker, the real issue is who are you really and why are you here.

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